Cheers for the welcome and again for the pics Jack Yr right - there is a huge variety of broms and I want them all!! But slowly, slowly. Have a lot to learn, from the very basic and am already learning some very helpful tips from looking through the posts - great work to all contributors. I have pretty average eyesight so can't see myself getting too far involved in hybridizing broms unfortunately (wld love to but such small flowers) but have a few Neo's flowering at moment so am hoping the insects will do their thing and help give me at least a few seeds to play with as am very interested in propagating from seed. Is great to see the plants other pple are creating here - already adding a few to my wish list including a few Vr! Is great to have found the forum and especially good to see a few Aussies on here as I'll definetly be interested in trading some plants as mine grow and produce and possibly purchase in the meantime but also a great opportunity to learn and share info with other brom lovers across the globe. cheers mate and have a good one Kristan

A second picture Giorgio

[a week later...] Arlene_82, THANK YOU for this. This is exactly what I'm talking about. When deadheading, it's so important to have a sharp eye for this, and your placing the bachelor button bud side by side with the blown flower in this photo here is exactly what I need. (Yes: it's this Centaurea cyanus that I'm talking about.) The bud and the blown flower or ripening fruit can look remarkably similar, but the browning on the tip of the blown bachelor button here is the giveaway. I wish there were a website database of exactly these kinds of pairs. Another one I struggled with is "Brights Lights Cosmos” (Cosmos sulphureus). Here's the opened flower, with the composite head clearly evident: This is clearly a bud just beginning to open: Opening a bit more, the sepals opening and giving way to the petals: But what about this from the same plant? Is it a flower opening or closing? Cosmos is of course a member of the composite family with multiple flowers per head, so are these protruding pistils coming out as the flower is about to open or are they remnants as the flower is closing? I'd say it's just opening, and the individual flowers inside the head seem to open before the petals of the larger flower open. Ditto with this. I used to think this was a spent bloom, the petals already spun off, but now I suspect it may be a halfway stage between bud and opened flower, the pistils of each individual flower of the composite head protruding before the outside petals arrive. I'm sure I just need to study this more. Maybe I should put a rubber band over a stem where I see an obvious bud and then come back to it every day from start to finish and see what they all look like. Frustrating, but mostly fun.

Thornworn, sorry I didn't see your question till now. (Tend to visit here in odd moments.) The individual stems/pedicels of each flower in a spray of First Crush seem longer by maybe 1/2" or so than those of Summer Romance, observing pairs of FC & triples of SR equal in age. May just be their response to my conditions rather than characteristic across the board. (Full sun from 10-4 or 11-5 depending on season.) Looking at these photos of First Crush & Summer Romance at HMF may illustrate what I see in this garden. Also note Dave's photo early in this thread. First Crush - http://www.helpmefind.com/rose/l.php?l=21.286333  Summer Romance - http://www.helpmefind.com/rose/l.php?l=21.255134  Consequently, First Crush's individual flowers are slightly more separated & defined from each other than those of Summer Romance here. Yet both present a nosegay impression to my eye. No, I've not yet observed a single stand alone bloom, only multiple buds & blooms in a cluster. You could remove some of the buds at an early stage to thin their number & space those remaining to your taste. Often done by exhibitors or to push individual blooms to larger size by disbudding. Also note that older plants often gain stature in all parts as they grow, sometimes including the stem length of each pedicel in a cluster - something each plant reveals in maturity. Might keep that in mind with Summer Romance & give it a chance to show you what it may accomplish with regards to flower spacing as it matures. As far as deadheading an individual blown bloom in a cluster - I tend to snap it off by itself at the abscission point. Larger hands than mine may find it easier to snip it off at the same point with thin bladed snippers or manicure/cuticle scissors. Routine here for all types of roses unless cutting for bouquets, find this promotes quicker & more generous rebloom than cutting farther down a stem. www.goldcoastrose.org/articles/rethinking_deadheading.pdf  If that last link doesn't work for you - as just clicking it didn't for me - type in "rethinking deadheading" in the search box there, which results in a green "Articles". Clicking Articles should take you to a list of articles, where it's sixth from the bottom. Sue