First of all I have to say that your friend was very irresponsible to breach Canada's quarentine regulations by bringing seeds in from Australia illegally. Quarentine restrictions are there for good reason even if you do not understand them.

Secondly I would like to point out that the various Aus native Solanum species are extremely aggressive colonisers and can be quite invasive even in their natural range. Solanum aviculare is no exception.

So what you and your friend have almost certainly done is introduce and Australian environmental weed into Canada. Perhaps you should google "environmental weed" and learn about the devestation that these do to ecosystems across the globe.

Most particularly those that produce edible fruit that can be distributed in the bird droppings hundreds of kilometres from the initial infestation. And which you will have little chance of preventing it from spreading.

I think the right thing for you to do would be to destroy your Kangaroo Apple, dispose of it in land fill and choose a more appropriate and non-invasive Australian native plant.

Sorry to chew your ar$e out in this forum but some one has to draw people's attention to these issues. As unaware of them as you may be.

It doesn't matter what everyone else does, it only matters what you do! And you certainly don't have to add your contribution to the environmental problems in your country do you?

These sort of situations are an environmental line in the sand for individuals like yourself. Your authorities can do only so much and the rest must be up to individuals behaving in an environmentally responsible manor.

As for the -40 degree celsius winters.

Do you have a degree in ecology or botany that gives you the expertise to reliably assess whether or not an exotic species has the potential to be invasive in between your cold winters? I thought not.

Seeds can survive extraordinarily hostile conditions, expecially the seeds of many of our native species.

It's possible to eat them, but not very sensible. They contain an alkaloid which was used by aborigines as a contraceptive - and the way it works is by causing an abortion. For non-pregnant women, this probably means that it disrupts the menstrual cycle, causing an extra period of bleeding. I have no idea how much needs to be eaten to cause this effect, but it may vary according to the season, ripeness of the fruit, etc.
I add my support to Greg's comments. Doesn't Canada have some interesting native plants of its own?
Trish

I was able to buy one at an Alberta nursery - which to me implies it is legitimate and cleared for import - but it and the seeds do not survive winter in zone 3a. However if it made it to Vancouver Island I have very little doubt about whether it would thrive in zones 6 to 8.

I just received seeds that I purchased on Ebay from California and received two gift packets of seeds with them. One is the kangaroo apple. As a retired border guard supervisor on the northern border with a passion for preventing the invasion of prohibited items. These seeds will be destroyed here in zone 5b.

I agree that it is unfortunate that laws governing the importation and exportation of agricultural items are needed but the lay person does not understand the complexities of the agricultural world and the problems created with all good intentions.

An example would be the importation of citrus from Canada into the United States in lunches for those working in the U.S. and meals for the travelers through the U.S. Because import standards are extremely strict, it prevents those citrus imported into Canada from countries other than the U.S., to get into the U.S.

Canadian import standards are not as strict and unfortunately citrus from non U.S. counties at times are contaminated with eggs, larvae, and adult "bugs" that would devastate the American Citrus Industry in California, Arizona, and Florida.

In fact even Florida citrus can not be sold in California and vice versa. Each has a unique pest contamination that the other State does not want introduced in theirs adding to an already major problem, ie. Medierranean White Fruit Fly. Enough said.

Have a great day everyone only double for you personally.
Trooper_jay

Let me add my two cents worth to the debate. My local council puts out a guide of environmental weeds to our area. Many of the plants that are on that list are commercially available in local nurseries. When most of us think of weeds, we don't think of our favourite plants, but some of them are.

I have a kangaroo apple in my garden. It germinated from seed dispersed by wind or bird droppings. It definitely has the ability to be invasive.

Having lived in Canada for all of my youth, I would agree that the chances of kangaroo apple or its seed surviving a Canadian winter are slim. I do agree though that the average person doesn't know enough about quarantine to be making decisions about whether it's safe to sow exotic seeds in their local area.

Don't be fooled into thinking that a plant that is sold in an area has all the approvals. Sometimes it takes a while for enforcement to catch up with legislation.

Cheers,
GW

sirjess, I hope you enjoy your Kangaroo Apple. I have eaten, quite tart, a real tomato is better, but nice for a change

Hey guys, just a quick note. The Kangaroo Apple is a colonising plant, so it grows quickly and in large numbers and provides a habitat for the establishment of other more permanent trees.

I have been doing a little research on the plant as I have a huge amount of it growing on my 52 acres. Never seen it as prolific but as we were affected by the Black Saturday bushfires of 2009 it has sprung up.

Interesting to see if come up, but don't think I will be tempted to eat it.

We have a Kangaroo apple in our front garden. it's only been there a year but it already has another plant growing 5m away and I agree with greg about the envirometal problems

I realise this is quite an old post but thought it was interesting, just like jon, i too was directly affect by black saturday, we always had one kangaroo apple in the next door property (we use to have a feral goat that was tamed) and they were never a problem for us, but since the fires we have a few popping up in unwanted places, i too would never be game to eat them, and am considering to get another goat (a nice dairy type breed) as we also unfortunately have a lot of black berries evey where, which we have not had the time to get on top off. Another thing i want to mention is that where we live we get very heavy frosts and i have even seen kangaroo apples survive where it snows, and like any plant it will adapt much better where it does not belong! Birds love to eat the fruits and just like black berries they can spread them far and wide.

I googled Kangaroo Apple as i am studying rongoa maori (maori medicine) and i wanted to konw more about the plant and where it can be found and it came up with this page....so i joined.

Reading through this thread, i found the answer that i was looking for as far as locality goes, and i should've known all along because kangaroo apple is in fact a healing plant with very good medicinal properties. I do feel compelled to add my thoughts on the previous postings in appreciation of the information that is given.

Firstly, i may have misunderstood Coreanuts post, because it appears that he considers the kangaroo apple a pest? Correct me if i am wrong...but is it not a native?
Secondly, I'm inclined to agree with Jon in that kangaroo apple provides the habitat for more permanent trees, because i was taught that following devastations such as fires, floods,landslides etc, that nursing or healing plants are the first to appear on the scene, as these are the plants that will provide the necessary nutrients to the soils to help restore the forest.

I wholeheartedly agree with Gregs post on introducing non indigenous plants to other countries. Just the other day, i posted a similar response (albeit not quite as passionate as you Greg), in that a person in New Zealand wanted to grow Neem plants, which is indigenous to middle eastern countries. Now it seems that a bright spark had the same idea here in Australia many many years ago, and did so. Neem is a very prolific plant if it escapes and is quite clever at doing so, as it produces succulent tempting berries for the unsuspecting bird to distribute. It inevitably escaped, and, as a result, young neem saplings are now strangling the roots of boab trees, some of which are hundreds of years old! Sooo...I'm pretty sure Canada would not want to replace the emblem of the national flag with a leaf of a kangaroo apple, or some other exotic species that was introduced no?

Some things are worth considering

I have eaten them on and off most of my life (I sm 42 now and still alive)!! They are on the tangy side compared with a.standard tomato but I still like them. I am fairly sure that it is the unripe fruit and leaves which contain the toxic compounds (and yes, were used as a contraceptive strategy, tho I don't think very reliably).

If you still have some seeds, or can buy more somewhere locally, then do enjoy. I think the.plants are quite striking too and I'd much rather have them invading my property than black berries or Spanish Heath any day.

Beebumble2012, do you have any concern for the environment when you advocate the sowing of Solanum aviculare seeds (presumably anywhere)?

I think if you read the other comments, it's a fairly safe bet they wouldn't last the Canadian winter and that is where the question asked is from. Also, if they are sold at registered nurseries there, they are not classed as a weed of national significance, plus a former quarantine inspector confirmed they cannot survive the winters there. If you read what I wrote, you can see I did not say to just plant them anywhere. There is a reason I don't normally engage with forums like this except for research, because someone always has to have a go at you. I answered her question about toxicity and taste, that is all.

Beebumble, thanks for the clarification that you wouldn't just plant Solanum aviculare seeds anywhere. I was concerned about the possibility that the seeds might be planted in places where they're not indigenous & could easily invade our fast-disappearing bushland.

As for the Canadian experience I'm not sure that I have the same degree of confidence in the authorities that you might have! Better not risk anything like this in Canada in my opinion.

You're welcome. I've never actually planted it by the way, just eaten the odd fruit when I come across them plus I grew up in places where it was a local bush food. You probably are right about the Canadian authorities (or authorities anywhere really). They don't tend to employ the scientists with a conscience.

hi there.ime sorry to say it but the most invasive and destructive weed species on this planet is the human race and this planet earth would be far better off with its eradication and obliteration from existence . the bush kangaroo apple gives back to the planet after it has run its course ..... how many of you out there can say the same?

I sympathise with your sentiment about Homo sapiens (or Homo stupidis as some of us seem to be evolving into), yngwiewithteeth. There is ever-increasing evidence that the human population is rapidly depleting the very natural capital which sustains it. Not a sustainable position, I would have thought, & one which will, at the very least, eventually see a severe reduction in Homo sapiens numbers.

However, to use over population of Homo sapiens to justify the maintenance of the Kangaroo Apple Solanum aviculare in areas where it isn't indigenous doesn't make sense to me. At a personal level, there's not a lot I can do to reduce Homo sapiens numbers but there are things I can do to ameliorate the destruction of our natural environment by invasive species. One is to eradicate, using minimum disturbance techniques, Kangaroo Apple if it tries to become established on my patch where it is not indigenous.

Can someone please explain to me why environmental disaster is equated with the human introduction of non-indigenous species? Non-human animals introduce non-indigenous species all the time - is this not simply the basis of ecological diversity? For some reason, we seem to assume that human-intervention is 'unnatural', whereas biological sciences say that we are just as 'natural' as any other species.

Confused . . .

You ask a very interesting question, dremmacopp, & your perspective is certainly worth considering.

There are people, & I'm one, who take the view that ecological systems have evolved over millions of years & are still evolving. However, this evolution is, in most cases, extremely gradual & gives species time to adapt. This time isn't available to species when humans are the ones doing the changing. For better or worse humans have developed technologies which have the power to make massive changes to ecologies in very short spaces of time so that species don't have time to adapt. The result is that ecologies are devastated. E.g., humans developed boats which transported plants to other countries. The introduced plants had no predators & became invasive, shutting out the natural vegetation. Natural ecological systems were destroyed.

The problem with this is that we're dependent on healthy ecological systems for our own well being. An example of the risk we're taking by wrecking ecological systems is in the large scale clearing of bushland to plant one crop. The bushland with its very gradually changing ecological systems with all species & their resources (soil, water) is replaced by a one species, e.g., wheat or corn. If a bug which likes wheat gets into the wheat field there is no predator to control it because the predator which once lived in the bushland has died out. So the farmer gets out the poisons & sprays the bugs but poisons the food on which we depend. The soil in which the food grows is also poisoned for future generations.

To take such risks with ecological systems is to put our own species at risk. Some would argue that technology will solve the massive problems created by ecological destruction. Such a position is extremely radical & ignores the critical importance of the cautionary principle in environmental matters. After all the environment is what we all depend on for our existence.

I hope that this goes some way, at least, to clearing your confusion. I'm happy to discuss further any issues you may wish to raise, dremmacopp.

I am a bushcare specialist in Queensland Australia. Firstly I would like to side with the well put environmental concerns presented particularly by gregaryb, Woko & trooper_jay. This post attracted me while seeking identification of one of over a hundred Solanum species, most native here, others environmental weeds. I am a fan of Kangaroo Apple, with it's distinctive kangaroo shaped leaf, as a replacement food plant for birds when removing Lantana & Wild Tobacco, Solanum mauritianum. A plant that provides food for all kinds of birds & marsupials, for a longer period, particularly when dry, than any other species. Unfortunately, due to lack of control by farmers, as with Lantana, it is now declared here. dedecla All Solanums are poisonous, containing solanine, including, tomatoes, chilies & potatoes, particularly green skinned, modified for human consumption. Still toxic to some people, like me.

Lastly, do not confuse Kangaroo Apple with Bush Tomato Solanum centrale the best known of several 'edible' species.

RE: dremmacopp

Can someone please explain to me why environmental disaster is equated with the human introduction of non-indigenous species?

When an environmental weed first starts invading an area then sure, the biodiversity is increased by 1. But before long that environmental weed starts displacing all the other species and the biodiversity is steadily reduced within years or decades.

I suggest you go and have a close look at a European gorse thicket or and African boxthorn thicket. Count up all the different species of plant you can see, even if you don't know what they are. Then go to a well preserved native grassland in spring and count up all the different types of flowers you can see.

You will find that the gorse and boxthorn thickets will contain perhaps a few dozen different species, most of which will themselves be environmental weeds. These also make perfect habitat for rabbits where they can hide their burrows and have plenty of places to hide from raptors and foxes. Rabbits strip the ground vegetation and further reduce biodiversity. Top soils wash away in heavy rain and ground flora is even less able to grow in what little tops soil remains.

In contrast the remnant native grassland will contain hundreds of different species if you look close enough. There are few if any rabbits because there are few places for them to hide from raptors and foxes. The top soil is stable in heavy rain due to the matted roots of all the grasses and herbs.

An environmental weed is much like the ebola virus when it enters a human body. There are few no natural defenses to it, and thus it rampages through the body reproducing and causing all sorts of tissue damage

Hi im from australia and have a couple in my garden i eat them raw every morning remember only eat them ripe when they are green they are toxic they have great health benefits when ripe . I rinse them then peel of the skin as i dont like the flavour of the skin but you might hope this has helped