I got frostbite gardening earlier today so I have resorted to a fantasy shopping splurge on the internet. As funds don't cover the whole fantasy, help me choose:
Add to my previous post the notion of a cold-frame. Would it be a better bet?
And what are your thoughts on those 4 tier PVC "mini greenhouses" you can buy on ebay for £15?
Say I want to grow salads/herbs and tomatoes, for example...what is my best option- heated propagator, cold frame, or mini PVC greenhouse?
( Previously I have started off seedlings in house and then grown on outdoors, with so-so results)
If squirrel proff the PVC greenhouse could be good for keeping the blighters off my crops!
Could I grow tumbler or one of the dinky tomatoes in a coldframe..???
Which offers the most flexible choice of possibilites? Realistically my garden is too small to raise a million seedlings, but I really enjoy the process and am always happy to give the little plants away! Or better still, just EAT them up!

I have been growing tomatoes for just a few years. Start off my seed in propagators, then onto polystyrene box with warming cable. Covered in lots of fleece if necessary. They all germinate!!
Julie

Lack of light is your problem. In fact making things warmer will just stretch them more. In low light you need to keep seedlings cool so they don't etiolate. Maybe a heated propagator outdoors somewhere very bright? Or a cool indoor spot like a spare room with a south-facing window?

An angle-poise is not bright enough and it is too hot. You'll fry your seedlings. I've used one to warm up a cactus to make the flowers open but no go on baby plants.

The specialist grow lamps are overkill for your needs, and overpriced for other needs. With a little knowledge of what to buy you can pick up the same things for about half the price. Plan on a fancy lamp if you want to grow your tomatoes right through to fruiting indoors under the lights.

In your case, you need either a couple of fluorescent shoplights or even a couple of the compact fluorescents. Fluorescent tubes are good if you want to light a large area because the 4' tubes are very cost-effective. For a small area like a couple of trays where a 4' lamp would be a waste, use compact fluorescent bulbs. The compact fluorescents are convenient because you can just plug them into a standard fitting and use them for lighting the hall or kitchen after you're finished with the seedlings :)

If you use the bulbs as a supplement to the brightest daylight you can find, then you probably need about 10W of fluorescent power per square foot of seed tray, placed as close to the seedlings as you can and still light them all. Two bulbs are good because all the seedlings tend to grow towards the middle if you just have one. As the only light source you would want double that, or at least some good reflectors above the bulbs. The equivalent incandescent or halogen bulb would be 50W per square foot. Put your hand a couple of inches from a 60W bulb and you can see that you'd boil the babies!

Thanks shrubs n bulbs for the technical info on the lighting. I will investigate these compact flourescent bulbs.
I think I am coming round to the idea of a cold frame/mini greenhouse being a useful purchase. It is not so much getting stuff to germinate as the worry of putting little seedlings out into the cold before their time...so I keep them indoors, meanwhile they get super leggy- my scented leaf geranium cuttings doing just that. Meanwhile my own legs remain short.

That would work, always more light outside than you are likely to provide artificially inside.

I heard of someone I used to work with using the same lamps that are used in street lights in his attic. Apparently they are the cheapest to run. Horrible colour though.

That compact fluorescent idea sounds a good one.

You mention buying a PVC covered mini-greenhouse for £15.00. I bought something similar when I wanted extra covered space, but about the only benefit was to stop cats using seed trays as loos! Very unstable, in fact, and very prone to being blown over unless weighted down with bricks.

Personally, I would put the money towards bricks and cement, and build a frame at least 14" high x 3ft square.

Chris

I have had some pinguiculas and a utricularia alpina growing in a 24x12x18" aquarium for about 8-10 years now, lit only by a 20w compact fluorescent and whatever daylight it picks up, as it has been in several places in the house. It has aluminium foil, as a mirror on the back face, and the lamp hangs down inside through a hole in a clear plastic sheet. A time clock switches on for 9 hours a day.
It started a an experiment but they grow and flower for much of the year, and apart from a clean out a couple of times they are fine. Just add rainwater and they grow.
If it got no daylight my guess would be that 2 lamps would be better, and keep the plants more compact, and these lights loose output as they age. I am on my second lamp now. It also makes an interesting security light for the house.
It would work just as well for seedlings, the higher the light level the shorter the seedlings would be.

Brian

Just a thought. What are your seedlings? I see you grow a lot of veggies, and most of those probably need warmer temperatures, but a lot of perennials actually do better sown outside rather than indoors in the warm. I have a few things indoors, but most of my pots of seeds are outside currently under a blanket of snow.

And another vote for a coldframe rather than a flimsy plastic mini-greenhouse.

NORAML LIGHT BULBS R NO GOOD WRONG SPECTRUM OF LIGHT 2 HOT/HALOGEN LIGHTS R NO GOOD WRONG SPECTRUM 2 HOT / COMPACT FLOURESENTS R OK 4 SMALL PLANTS BUT U NEED EM ALMOST TOUCHING DA PLANT NO GOOD 4 BIG PLANTS/ BEST IS HIGH PRESSURE SODIUM LIGHTS AND METAL HALIDE LIGHTS 4 BIGGER PLANTS

I have a flimsy plastic greenhouse. Actually its not all that flimsy, metal-framed and covered in a fairly robust (but not completely transparent) plastic cover. The main problem is it is tall and certainly prone to blowing over. I have mine against a wall at the moment but it might have to come out into the open during the summer if I decide to keep cactus in it.

This was a christmas present and certainly not something I would have chosen for myself. Partly because it isn't very practical and partly because I don't have a good position to put it in. I've kept overwintering perennials and seed trays in there to keep them tidy and stop them being flooded (have to bring them out occasionally for some water!). I'll try some concrete slabs in the bottom if it ends up exposed to the wind.

Here it is. I thought I had a picture full of plants, but I guess not. This isn't a recommendation to get one of these, just thought you might be interested.

{{gwi:2116698}}

I have one the same as shrubs, only I did buy it myself :) My bottom shelf is completely full of bricks in an effort to stop it blowing over - which it has done once :( I used it last Spring to help harden off some plants (and keep the rain deluge off them that we had April time last year!). Over the winter I've kept my Venus Flytraps in it and a few possibly delicatish little plants I didn't want to risk leaving on the patio. I guess I use it as a kind of vertical cold frame! I bought it for 15 quid from Poundstretcher - they're going for 12 quid this year! Can't really go wrong at that price.

Just my 2p
Alcina

Is your window sill over a radiator? That would explain the leggyness. Too much heat. I have managed to grow strawberries in a hanging basket in my kitchen window and tomotoes on the other side. It gets the afternoon sun. Tomatoes are one of those brilliant plants that grows almost anywhere, I've a friend who always grow them in large black rubbish sacks. And the work!

Alcina, you inspired me. I have moved my mini-greenhouse from its safe but shady winter position into a completely free-standing exposed sunny position, in the hope of putting my cactus collection in it for the summer. I've sunk bolts into the brick patio and fastened it down :)

I use mini-greenhouses with fluorescent tubes wired up inside - but I have them INDOORS in my plant room, not outside. To get good plant headroom I remove all the bracing bars and half the shelves.

Steve - Brighton

shrubs_n_bulbs, surley some well placed rawl plugs in your brick work with some hooks screwed into them, and some holes in your greenhouse (heat a bradle under a gas flame and burn a hole through the plastic) combined with some pliable wire would overcome your greenhouse problem? Just tie it to the wall and see it try and make an escape for the floor...

londonshade - I wonder if you also a little impatient? I usually find that the urge to start sowing precedes the best time to do it. I only sowed tomatoes yesterday in my cold greenhouse. They can't go outside for a while anyway so nothing is gained by starting too early.

Thanks for the DIY advice Hammer, but the greenhouse in that position was not a problem. It went through the severe gales this winter without moving when everything else blew away. The problem is that it receives no sun there. I want to keep cacti in it over the summer and it has to be in an exposed position where it blows over at the slightest breeze. With no structures nearby the only solution was bolts in the floor and wires over the frame. So far, so good, but I think I really need stronger wire. I can post pictures if you are interested.