So funny...I am the one who started this thread back in 2004 (and we shortly thereafter moved to Colorado). We moved back to So Cal last September, and just now moved into a home on a huge horse ranch in San Timoteo Canyon. Our yard is a blank slate (except for having mature pepper and birch trees)...no grass, so I am on the lookout for anything drought tolerant and rabbit proof. I don't have a lot to trade at this point, as I am starting all over, but I do have some seeds and can get my hands on some great succulents (as my mom and dad's succulent garden is always in need of trimming). And if anyone is in Redlands or thereabouts, let's see about having some get togethers to do some trading!

I use all of them too!! Neroli has a very pronounced green note and while it reminds the real flowers, it is more penetrating and high pitched and kind of bitter & definitely not sweet!... I wouldn't call it heavy or spicy because it lacks warmth but I guess if you compare it to its chemical shower gel imitations.. I also happen to have petitgrain at the moment and it is vaguely close to neroli but lighter and kind of more lemony or fresh and airy.. more similar to the real leaves than neroli is to the flowers.. The ones closer to the "real scent" are bergamot oil, from the rind of citrus bergamia which is a very beautiful citrus cologne-like scent and orange oil from common oranges which is exactly like the orange peel smell you get when you peel them, you can feel the stickiness too!!These are impressions by smelling them right out of the bottle of course, when they are used, usually much diluted, they acquire a somewhat different character.. we are really missing an essential oils and perfumery subforum here!!

I have been following this thread off and on. Frankly controversies often lead to interesting bits of information and insight and I definitely like how Al handles them. And at the same time he takes the time to explain his reasoning behind them. Over the years I have started partially/fully defoliating some plants while transitioning from indoors to outdoors. Over the years I noticed Al encourage that for ficus and I tried that on several of my ficus and the results are quite spectacular. The reasoning behind it makes a lot of sense to me. here is a pure conjecture for what it is worth: Besides Al's reasoning I also suspect that dramatic change in UV exposure has something to do with it too. My hypothesis is that indoor leaves loose the 'natural sunscreen' that leaves have outdoors and cannot regain it back easily. UV is very high energy photons (UVA is 16x more energetic than red) and quite destructive. When a plant is slowly acclimatized, I suspect photosynthesis levels are increased but so does the energy wasted to deal with the destructive powers of UV. I have tried it (partially defoliating) on several other plants like guava, hibiscus, bougainvillea and few others with great results. Early this season I did the same on a small lemon plant. I am quite pleased with the results. It has all new leaves, two quite good sized lemons and it looks stronger and healthier than it used to be. Compared to that another plant (same lemon and same beginning size) went through a stasis, grew some and dropped some, produced flowers but never set fruit. It is not conclusive experiment but interesting nevertheless. Vlad you said about Al: In the past when I asked for scientific references for some of the things that you have said you avoided providing them and instead told me that I should trust you because of your many years of experience. I think you have beaten that dead horse many times, inserting that pet peeve of yours in many threads. It is time to move on. But you managed to embed an accusation that I have never seen Al do. You are referring to this comment: https://www.houzz.com/discussions/miracle-gro-garden-soil-experiment-dsvw-vd~5348646 The reply by Al, in my opinion, was spot on and had no reference to years of experience that you seem to accuse him of. A scientist does what Sherlock Holmes explained best: "Once you eliminate the impossible, whatever remains, no matter how improbable, must be the truth" Next you said: Tell me how my criticisms of Al are not accurate. Just because you cannot get through 300 words without losing the plot is really not a criticism of Al. I wonder how you will get through 10000 words in the scientific reference you are seeking. Out of your five posts in this thread four of them are dedicated to trying to get even with Al. Please try to move on.

Matt a great place to order !!!! There preorder for citrus is usally over end of March early April I believe. If you call them I'm sure they will ship to you depending on they still have what you want . Came across another mail order nursery about a month ago its called Nutcracker nursery it's located in the province of Quebec . They even say they ship during the winter months . Just wondering if any citrus hobbyist from Canada have ever purchased from them before? Brian