Wow! I gotta e-mail this news article to my snowbird neighbor, who's now in Michigan, but who I'll see again in November. Every year for decades, from November till April, he kills at least a dozen of those red-bellied woodpeckers, which he claims destroy his honeybell tangeloes. Once in a while I'll hear the crack of his .22 rifle, then immediately call him to ask what he's shooting at. The answer is always the same. "Got one of them buggers!" The "buggers" are red-bellied woodpeckers. For some reason, these woodpeckers leave my tangeloes alone, although they do raid my figs and loquats. My arch-enemy is the common grackle (NOT the boat-tailed variety!) These feathered varmints swarm into my citrus trees every summer and poke holes into every green fruit. I suppose these birds are also covered by this ridiculous Migratory Bird Treaty, but I don't care. Death to grackles! I'm constantly amused at how the non-targeted birds like mockingbirds, blue jays, brown thrashers, and others utterly ignore me while I'm stalking grackles with my pellet gun. In the beginning of this campaign, when all of these species were foraging on the lawn together and I would shoot at a grackle, all of the birds would take off. After a short time, the non-targeted birds would leap into the air at the shot, but then settle down and resume feeding. As the war went on, the non-targeted birds wouldn't even flinch at my shot, but the surviving grackles would blast off for parts unknown. Today, the grackles avoid my yard entirely, even though I see them daily elsewhere in the neighborhood. Isn't it marvelous how quickly critters learn what is and what is not dangerous?

..I cannot comment on Maid Marion as I don't have it, but I can tell you something of TaB as I grow this one, although only for 1 season so far, and obviously I'm in England so my experience may not benefit you so much. I wouldn't describe it in any way as a red, but deep cerise pink with purple overtones, and at times a stronger pink.. it's a thorny shrub but I like the scent very much, old rose type... also, I don't know how it would perform as a free standing bush, I grow it within a structure as a short climber. This way it has reached 5 foot tall since the summer... if it was freestanding, I think it would be shorter and more spreading. ...perhaps it could be compared to 'Falstaff' or 'Young Lycidas'... I wouldn't compare it to Sophy's Rose or any of the others mentioned... Here are 2 photos so you can see the colour changes. It could be that it darkens when I bring it indoors, I'm not sure... or maybe the light has something to do with it... but these colours look true to how I saw them at the time...

Have Everglades seeds to trade.

I don't grow Maid Marion, Gagal, but thought I'd comment and bump up your thread so someone who does will see your question. I did look up MM on HMF, and it's a lovely Pemberton creation! MM looks like what you might get if you crossed Daphne with Penelope. :-) It seems to be a smaller HM with Penelope-like blooms. I grow Penelope and love her! And Claire just sent me Daphne. Her fragrance is WAFTING! Please keep us updated with photos and postings on bloom frequency, health and fragrance. I think your MM is something of a rarity! Carol