I haven't been happy with my Australian willow acacia, Acacia salicina. Thin tree, very messy, sheds leaves all summer, sheds billions of white sticky blossoms in autumn into winter. I've had unexpected success with a cascolate, Caesalpinia cacalaco. I planted a 24-inch tall multi-trunked one 9 years ago and it is about fifteen feet high now, which I believe is about its max. It is the tree cousin of red desert birds of paradise, but has no thorns, has yellow blossoms, and after a few years becomes a repeat bloomer, several times per year. I live in Tucson, where we have more frost, and only one year's really hard and sustained freeze (daytime stayed below 32) made the leaves die. It didn't shed those leaves, so I spent a few minutes batting it with a broom, and discovered the bare form is very handsome. It grew new leaves in the spring. Most winters, it stays green all year round. It is Mexican, well suited to Arizona. I've noticed a number of them being planted along the interstate in Phoenix lately. Oh, and I like the sound of hearing its pods snap open at night and the tiny seeds bouncing on the brick patio, yet it is not a messy tree. Four years ago I planted a six-foot cascolate beside my wash, where it is chugging along less eagerly, but is getting there. Both have modest irrigation.

Roy, I've read and reread your post and I am at a total loss to work out what you are telling me? When I said "Stopped caring", I was refering to getting up tight and militant about the issue. I've given what I hope is a logical and reasoned approach to sizing water tanks, with my justification. Practical experience suggests that the long term averages are too high for tank sizing at the moment, but I still hold that if each household installed the tank size I suggest then we wouldn't be in the pickle we are in. As a result I feel that if I have done that much, then I should not feel guilty using water the way I do. I do not believe that having each house fully self-sufficient for water is economical or desirable from an environmental perspective, as significant resources are used to make the tanks, to make the pipes and plumb everything in. There is always a diminising return on effort expended so you should think carefully about exactly what your goal is, and optimise for that. In my case I felt that we should be looking at the cost per L of water available each year. When I wrote that page it seemed reasonable to assume that there would be enough water in storage to tide over drought periods. Of course, as I was the only (near enough) person to think this way, our water supply has dwindled to the point where that assumption is no longer true. As a result, I am punished (reduce opportunity) for my efforts at water conservation; hence my disinterest in further efforts. Frank, regarding towns having higher rainfalls than the catchments; I think you are probably right. There is strong evidence that cities strongly affect local climate to the extent that standard weather models have to take them into account. If you can reasonably quickly fill that tank, and you have room, then go for it! Regarding PRV idea, it was suggested in ReNew a while back and had the blessing of at least one council in Brisbane, so there is precedent. I do collect all the water I can, despite living in a rental proprety.

Why take the risk? Macbirch, I understand exactly what you're saying. Planting natives does sometimes/often seem like a risk because we just don't have the collective knowledge about natives as we do exotics. About 2 years ago, I wanted to plant a hedge along the boundary between my native garden and my neighbour's property. I really liked the idea of using waratahs, but at that stage I'd never tried to grow one, and, since you don't see them around that much, thought they must be difficult. I decided not to take the risk and planted callistemons instead, at least they where natives. Anyway, I've since had great success growing 2 waratahs (even moved one), so I've decided to take out the callistemons, which aren't getting enough sun anyway, and replace them with waratahs. My point is that if I'd had the confidence in the first place, and got some decent advice from my local nursery, I wouldn't be now, 2 years down the track, going to all the work and expense of replacing the callistemons with what is afterall, a plant indigenous to the Blue Mountains! You'd think there'd be a waratah nursery here wouldn't you? No, I have to drive 40 minutes just to get to a native nusery, and that looks like it could close down any time soon. Waz, young people like you are the key. I hope you never grow exotics, never learn about them or decide you like them. Oh, and I hope you and Artie continue to be outspoken about people like me who grow roses. If I build another house and start a garden from scratch, things will be different.

>>the species at risk in the wild should be preserved within the general locality in which they are endangered as the genotypes and the associated genetic variability is suited to that region I agree that it SHOULD be that way.... but having accepted the reality that plants often are not adequately protected in their native habitat (especially in third world countries.... but extinctions may occur even in some first world countries) I think that cultivating threatened plants is a legitimate means of protecting them, whether it's halfway around the world or not. What about the highlands of Peru and Bolivia? What about all those New Caledonian endemics that are still being whacked down and burned indiscriminately by landowners? How about your own Eucalyptus recurva which is known from only four wild plants... a bushfire could come along, the regrowth could be grazed and the plants could be lost. This plant is now being preserved at Currency Creek Arboretum but it could just as well have been lost forever if it had not been brought into cultivation, and something happened to the original plants. Plants are inevitably vulnerable in the wild, often due to human influence but sometimes not... so isn't it better if as many people as possible have them in their gardens? Wattleblossom... your example is just about foolish people who are trying to make a profit and do not really have a clue what they are talking about, not people responsibly collecting plants to preserve them. It is one thing to harvest trunks of relatively common D. antarctica (and C. australis) from the wild.... this is unnecessary as it is unlikely to go extinct no matter what anyone does. Nothing wrong with growing D. antarctica in England but personally I think it would be better if they were spore raised plants. Now if someone were to collect spore from a very rare species of treefern (rather than harvest a whole plant) and disseminate the plants to help preserve them... is there anything wrong with that? I don't think so. I also think that when possible a variety of genetic material should be used for each species cultivated.