CP, Lizards are so cool. I envy ppl like DVL who have them all over. Hawks and owls are on my top most favorite list. Coyotes are cool but I no longer trust them. We were ambushed by a pack of 4 one night down in the gully where we would go to fish and have a bonfire for the night. It was my husband, neighbor Bill, my kids and my dogs Jett and Bandit. Bandit was my 100lb. german shepherd. Jett and Bandit were able to keep the 4 at bay til one of them jumped my husband. My husband broke its neck and Billy was able to break the other ones neck. Bandit killed one and Jett severly injured the other. All that within 5 minutes. Never so scared in my life. We imediately took the dogs to the vet to be checked out. Jerry and Billy only had a few scratches, nothing serious......amazingly. What a drama that was. Needless to say, everytime we go to the gully now Jerry and Billy will bring their pistol, loaded and ready. Dawn

Wonderful collection ! ....thanks ! I also notice in one or two photos the bridge across the Derwent River to the east side and the airport.... I am thinking of staying near the Botanical Gardens during the first week -- for a few visits of the gardens and for bicycling in the general area. Are there any good places to stay there, that you would recommend ? I was also looking at a map of Mt. Field National Park, but couldn't quite locate the Tarn Shelf or Rodway Range you mentioned - maybe I just need to zoom-in more ? Looks like the B61 might be a nice route to bike also -- any good places to stay in Maydena or Westerway ? ....which of these is the trail head for a hike up to the Tarn Shelf ?

Took me a while to find this posting as well as bneing able to log in. Now almost 12 months later and I am in the suburbs of Far East Gippsland. Gradually making progress in what was a non gaRDEN. been here two years. Love those natives,but will take a few years to build up the stock. Always sticking cuttings in, some successes. Errinunda Rain forest = ferns, waratahs, not far away. Marvellous coastal heathland, lots of flowers in bloom and ground orchids in surrounding forests. LOve it.

Greg wrote: Nathan, these sorts of examples are broadly accepted and acted on by environmental scientists, governments, CSIRO, government land managers, Greening Australia, conservation organisations and now many farmers. You can't seriously be suggesting that they are all be acting on flawed logic and false assumptions! Goverments have a good record of doing things for reasons other than logic. I am constantly amazed how people do the wrong things for all the right reasons. Just the other day in my work I discovered that the 'right way' to solve a certain computer algorithm was slower than another way known about for even longer. After a certain point behaviour becomes entrenched and self-catalysing even when it is known to be wrong. Nathan I reckon that no matter what evidence or logic anyone puts in front of you it will not change your mind because it doesn't fit your own belief system. Au contrair, I am far more likely to change my belief system than you. As I said, I used to believe what you believe, but then I began to doubt the fundamental assumptions. I notice that you still haven't managed to write an argument. Is it too hard? Robert wrote: There is an obvious philosophical line and/or point of view, that goes through Greg's posts. It may well be one that we disagree with, but it is clearly there. There was an obvious philosophical line etc from Stalin. It is possible to be convinced about one's beliefs and yet be wrong. It is also possible to write scientific papers, and be wrong. Sometimes people even retract their statements, but this seems to be very much in a minority. Nathan, consistant ridicule and condescension might satisfy your ego but it unfortunately inhibits constructive debate. Actually, as far as I can tell, I've been trying to have constructive debate, but it's hard to debate when the counterviewpointholders don't even know what they're arguing for. I've tried asking indirectly, I've tried asking nicely, I've tried giving hints and even suggesting methods and started writing greg's argument for him. But he refuses to actually state his cause. How can one have a constructive debate when one isn't sure what the other person's reasoning is, and when at the same time, one feels that that person's actions are illogical and harmful? Whether the issue is the threat of exotic garden plants becoming weeds and therefore their resultant impact on biodiversity or whatever native plants we plant and where we plant them, bludgeoning someone who has not provided the right words for you, is unhelpful. You mean saying things like 'in the big picture you are irrelevant' and 'Clearly there are people in this forum who are not 'converted''? I'm just asking for a simple sketch of why greg believes that we should grow indigenous only gardens with base beliefs, middle deductions and final conclusion. There is no 'right words' about it. Lets say I were a medical scientist, and I...