I must admit that I am quite impressed as to how helpful everyone on this forum has been! Thanks again everyone! Suzi, thanks for the encouragement! I sure hope the condo is not for too much longer because I have a feeling by next summer my balcony will have a hard time accomodating all of my planned citri (citruses/citri?). I would love to have your local and actually the misses and I are currently considering making move out to California in the next year or so (we should both be done with school this semester, finally...). It's just an idea right now and we would not move out there without job security, but it sure sounds appealing! Brett, thanks for the tips! I'm glad you said that about the pot size, there's a good chance I would have bought ones too big. I had a question about that though. A lady with some citrus experiance at my local nursery told me just to use a premixed Miracle Gro soil for citrus/cactus which actually had alot of the stuff you need to use (perlite, organics, sand) but I do not see too many people on these forums doing anything aside from mixing their own. Anyone got any suggestions for good deals ordering coconut husk chips? I do want to check some local nurserys and see if they have any by chance, but I am not sure I will have much luck here outside Chicago. As for fertilizer Brett I was considering using Osomocote slow release for outdoor/indoor plants (19-6-12), unless anyone has any objections or suggestions. The pointers were quite helpful Brett, thanks! Toni, It would be awesome to live in a location that had citrus trees at all of the bix boxes (as painful as it generally tends to be entering any and every big box). If you are refering to Pesche's in Des Plaines, it is indeed open, but I honestly do not kow much about their buisness history. It was a pretty nice place, quite a bit of selection, very helpful staff but the prices were indeed a bit high. I still bought a few things there (general potting soil and a bottle of superthrive) and would probably go back. I have never been to any of the other places you speak of, but one of my customers at the coffee shop today mentioned Jamacia Gardens to me and said I should check it out. Is there anywhere local you suggest getting the components for a good growth medium or do you order your components online? I would like to use coconut husk chips as well as the rest of the usual suspects (perlite, organics, ect) and was wondering if you know if they are locally available. As for prices I know those are steep, but I have actually checked out Gardenwatchdog and it seems as though Four Winds is one of the best rated companies. Also, I emailed them the other day w/ a question about shipping prices (the previously posted dilema) as well as to see if there was any chance that they had any 2-3 yr old Taroccos since their site said they were out. I was blown away by the response I got from customer service. The CS rep told me he wasn't sure but thought there was an extra 2-3 yr old Tarocco he might be able to sell me and that he would let me know in the next couple of days. He then told me a good deal of info on all three variaties of blood orange they sell and his personal success with bringing any indoors during the winter. He then proceeded to tell me all about what he thought were good suggestions for a novice as well as explained to me the whole shipping situation (which actually made sense after explained, it has to do with older trees being able to be packaged togather into one box where mixed age trees generally can't). In all the response was over 5 paragraphs, and I must admitt I was impressed! I might still order a few trees from them unless I can find all four of the trees I want from one supplier that is reputable and cheaper. I am going to check out those local nurserys though. As for selection I am not 100% sure but leaning towards a bearss lime, varigated pink lemon, gold nugget mandarin and possibly an oro blanco grapefruit (if not, either a tarocco blood orange or cara cara navel). Also, the owner of citrus.forumup.org also ocassionally sells some plants and has a few Meyer lemons right now that I believe he said would be $28 including shipping and that they should fruit this year. I was not initially planning on having 5 citrus trees this year, but I am planning on making it work. Thanks for all the help again Toni! Mike, I really appreciate the call to Four Winds for me! I emailed them and got an impressive response explaining the whole shipping situation. Their customer service is amazing! I found a Meyer for cheap, so I think I am going to give it a shot and I will surely keep you updated on it's status! Thanks folks! Joe

The form of the sweetener does make a difference, though research in this area is just beginning. Fruits preserved with Splenda are not an issue. Essentially what you're doing is canning fruit in water; the impact on texture and keeping qualities once opened will be the same as if just water had been used. But pickles present special problems. Note this account from the NCHFP of problems with pickled beets [I've italicized for emphasis]: "Recently, a question was asked regarding changing the sugar in pickled beets. The person made pickled beets using fructose and Splenda® in place of the sugar. A few weeks later, the lids popped loose and juice was coming out while transporting the jars to a relative in another state. This never happened when regular sugar was used. What could have gone wrong? There is rarely one simple answer to these situations. Common solutions include bacterial growth, poor seal, chips around the jar rim, food particles on the jar rim, old lids, lifting the jars by the lid instead of the jar rim, or not following manufacturerÂs directions in preparing the lids. In this scenario, however, another factor must be considered as the problem. The use of different sugars. Sugar will dissolve in water. When this occurs, it will raise the boiling point of water. Different sugars have different molecular weights per molecule. Therefore, this weight difference may raise the boiling point only 1°F or it may raise it 5°F as examples. This change affects how long a food must be processed to be considered safe. In the case of the pickled beets, the fructose and Splenda® are quite different in weight than sugar. Therefore, using the same processing time from the original recipe was probably not adequate. The beets were beginning to show signs of spoilage. This is one example why we recommend using tested recipes from sources such as the USDA Complete Guide to Home Canning or from the Cooperative Extension Service." So I wouldn't make a pickled recipe with Splenda (for canning) unless it had been specifically developed for that product. However, I know Ken has had good luck with Splenda-sweetened pickles and his take on this issue may be different. Beverly Alfeld's new book Pickles to Relish does offer several recipes with Agave substituting for sugar. However, I don't know the pH of Agave nectar and whether she's using Agave in pickles with a low enough pH to allow for differences in sweeteners. She does caution to be very careful in subbing one sweetener for another. For example, she has customers who are interested in maple syrup as a natural sweetener for pickles, but maple syrup in several cases raised the pH to the unsafe level. So again, until more is known, I'd stick with recipes tested for the sweetener you would like to use. But that's just my point of view. You might see if your library can obtain Alfeld's book so that you can take a look at the recipes which call for Agave. ...

I was also going to say Calamondin. it's a cross between a kumquat and... I forget. A mandarin orange? Point is, like a kumquat the skin is sweeter than the fruit. It should get fully orange, but it will always be sour, similar to a lemon. In the Phillipines they make a kind of lemonade from the juice (they call it Calamansi if you want recipes) and use it in cooking anywhere you'de use lemon (on fish, etc). Calamondin also makes an excellent marmalade since the skin isn't bitter. By the way your tree has a magnesium deficency, that color pattern on the leaves in't how its supposed to look. :) A fertilizer with micronutrients, like Dyna-Gro Foliage Pro or Osmocote Plus will fix that up. (because its a waxy, time release pellet, Osmocote Plus is *extremely* difficult to f-up, which is always a plus for me, lol).

Mike: I keep all mine in a coolish garage, with not very good light. So, the coldest it gets on the concrete floor is probably around 45 degrees. On sunny days it can warm up to 65ºF. But if you have a sunny, warm greenhouse, your good! They'll keep growing and probably bloom earlier. Good for you, using Madison. I like their selection. And you've really got to pounce on some of these varieties because they seem to sell out quickly. I'd rather use them than 4 Winds, since Madison is East Coast and shipping takes much less time. What is the mandarin you added pics of? I've had no problem with Harris citrus, it's just that they have so few varieties right now. I even got a tiny Logees 'Shasta Gold' to grow well. Their small plants can be a challenge. But I couldn't find it anywhere else at the time.