For great, heavenly fragrant whites it's best to leave HT arena. In my humble opinion, best whites are from Damask and Alba group. Then just two or three English roses, and quite a few (multiflora) ramblers.
- Tom

Precious Michelle & Margaret Merril are two possibles. Although MM is classed as floribunda, the clusters are small. It is an excellent picking rose with a gorgeous fragrance. Virgo is said to have a slight tea fragrance and may rate consideration & Garden Party is another to consider if you can find it.

Yes, Yvonne, I think Margaret Merrill might suit my friend very well. I count floribundas as multiple-birth HTs, anyway.

Thanks, Tom , for that observation. If it were my choice, I'd go for a damask, but my instructions were clear;-)))

Fragrant white HTs? Tom would have us believe there is no such thing, but that's just his prejudice showing. Here are some that would suit your friend's criteria, including long stems Tom, Elizabeth Harkness, Pakeha, Elizabeth Arden, Honour, (Jardins de Bagatelle, Royal Highness and Fairytale Queen, if you can take a hint of blush with your white), Honour, John F.Kennedy, Margaret Merrill, White Lightnin', Tineke, Crystalline, Cyril Fletcher, Fresh Cream, French Lace, Ivory Fashion, Memoire, Mount Shasta, Pristine, Elizabeth Arden, Virgo, Pascali, Princess of Wales, Augustine Guinoisseau, The Bride, Mrs.Foley Hobbs, White Bouquet, and White Spray. More whites there Tom than Damasks, Albas, AND Centifolias thrown in.

Well, lozza, so very very glad you showed up, because I just contacted Reliable Roses last night about obtaining a pair of Cyril Fletchers and a Crystalline. Jean is sending a catalogue, but I am so very pleased that you mentioned Cyril here, because I really want to try this one myself.
Yippee.

**
Fragrant white HTs? Tom would have us believe there is no such thing, but that's just his prejudice showing.
**
:-) Thanks Lozza.

Lady was looking for fragrant whites, and when compared to her reds (Mister Lincoln, Papa Meilland, etc.), those white HTs cannot hold a candle.

It's actually a shame: there's are zillions of HTs, 10 times more than Damasks, Albas and ramblers altogether, and among white HTs, which one can stand the same position of a fragrant Alba, for example?

I was talking about the quality of a rose fragrance and how even one little group (white Damask) can be better than whole white HT group in fragrance quality. Lozza, read the whole meaning of my posts and don't struggle to make issues where there's none.

PS. And I have nothing against HTs -- I love them and grow them. Me and you have more in common than you believe.

**
Fragrant white HTs? Tom would have us believe there is no such thing, but that's just his prejudice showing.
**

Or we can put it in this way:

The lady was looking for blueberries on a sandy shore, although there's plenty of them in the forest. And of course, one man waved and said, "Of course there are blueberries on the sandy shore, just come here ... I have some in my boxes here for sale." Are they sweet as those fresh blueberries in the forest? Not really, but who cares. Who knows how good blueberry tastes today anyway?

I understand that HTs are your bread and butter Lozza, and Damasks just an occasional blueberry on a cappuccino ice-cream desert.
But life is more than bread and butter, isn't it?

And is sweeter too.

- Tom

Tom-you have Lozza wrong-Lozza is way more interested in the old roses than the new ones.He has a very extensive collection of old roses and Australian bred roses also.
As far as H.T.s are concerned he trials them and if they meet his strict criteria he will offer them for sale.
He also keeps a selection of the 'classic' H.T.s-the ones that are considered passe by people who require 'flavour of the month' roses.
A man more in love with ALL roses I have yet to meet.
regards
sandie

Passionate people are so exciting, so yeasty. Tom and Lozza are, as ever, stimulating and knowledgeable. I take all comments to the bank, and I thank you all. Yvonne, MM seems to fit the bill for Gail. For myself - and I have no interest in whites particularly, as the extremely happy owner of Jardins de Bagatelle - I now lust after a damask (but no space ;-( ) and MUST have Cyril Fletcher.

Tom, first paragraph, second line, "for cutting purposes only". Fragrant white HTs I gave. The non-fragrant still look good in a formal arrangement, clearly what the lady was asking for. No way can you describe OGRs as good for cutting, and it's anything but relevant, but you choose to throw them into a post clearly headed "Most Fragrant HT Whites".

Youki San is the one. I am convinced that it is the most fragrant white. You should see the bud shape too. Amazing. Bit like Kardinal. Sure, Margaret Merril and White Lightnin` are good but Youki San takes the cake. My good mate Steve Beck (former President of the Vic rose society ) put me on to it.
Cheers,
Pete

Gentlemen, gentlemen, please. This simple request will be getting renamed "War of The Roses"#2.
There are fragrant whites around, but although they can have quite strong sweet scents, they don't usually have that really rich "rose" scent, one associates with the reds.
The strongest scented white I have ever found and the one that has the closest to the classic rose perfume is a bush called "Bernina". It has a lovely heady scent and these thick waxy petals like a sculpted icing sugar rose.
Back in the seventies, when my mum was still operating her florist shop, she had several very good scented whites growing, so she could have nice ones to hand for special bridals etc. The best one that I remember was the Japanese bred "Youki San". She also grew "Matterhorn", "Pascali"
"Virgo", and "White Lightnin' "
One of the sweetest perfumed white still available today is "Iceberg". (Yes I know, as I duck for cover!)Much despised nowadays by "serious" rose growers because it's been done to death by landscapers and councils etc. But it does smell nice and flowers heaps.
I like your friend's choice of reds. Classics, all of them.
Mum grew all of them, (as I do now in my picking garden,) and she also had a red called "Chrysler Imperial" which was beautifully scented. The only problem with this bush now is it seems to have lost it's vigour, and can be disappointly shy with flowers, and health. A good modern red, with strong scent, is "Ingrid Bergman" It is interesting to note that the 3 "good reds" all share the same parentage "Charles Mallerin" x "Chrysler ImperiaL"

Yes, I forgot Youki San, and Snow Waltz, but clearly some of you guys are not familiar with Cyril Fletcher, because it stands alone as the most fragrant white. Close behind is Margaret Merrill.

Okay. Great job, everyone. The dust has settled, and here's the net result.

Gail (friend in search of fragrant white HT) fell in love when she saw pix of Youki San. BUT Magic Garden won't have its YS grafts ready until 2007. I think Ross Roses mentions it, too, but I know MG and like them, so Gail's waiting a year for YS.

Everyone seems to have good things to say about Margaret Merrill , and that consensus has confirmed it as Gail's choice this year. She prefers the HT look, so Cyril Fletcher was passed over. Never mind, I'll give him a shot for fragrance and for his pedigree and on lozza's recommendation, although Cy's paper-thin petals worry me. So there's the first part of the Reliable Roses order for 2006. Will probably add Veteran's Honor to the list, not only because I REALY want it, but because RR doesn't list it by the dull-with-a-thud name of the City of Newcastle Bicentenary. (Can't tell you how many new rosie people I know who have not even looked twice at this great rose just because of the handle. No offense to Novocastrians ;-)0

Thanking you all so very, very much. You've introduced me to fascinating roses whose acquaintance I would never have otherwise made.

Betsy, Maybe I confused you? Cyril Fletcher is as HT as you can get. And you don't have to apologise to people of Newcastle. I have written long and hard about the opportunists in this country who think it's OK to give a topical name to roses in order to cash in on the sentiments of people. In the case of Veteran's Honour, a scandalous disregard for the sacrifices of Americans in wartime.

Here is a link that might be useful: {{gwi:2112581}}

Well, you have to hand it to the Newcastle committee that chose VH. The members certainly had a discriminating eye. Pity that they couldn't have called it ANZAC of Newcastle. Just in passing: The American vets of WWII and Viet Nam speak almost reverentially of their ANZAC comrades. My dad remembers there was a saying among the GIs, passed down from conflict to conflict, that, in a tight situation, you only wanted an ANZAC or a Texan at your back, because they'd never falter.

Um, re Cyril, yes, understood that Cyril is most definitely an HT. Gail was looking for your postcard-picture high centre sort of shape. She thought Cyril looked 'English', ie cabbage rose-like. I do not share that prejudice. Anyhow, lozza, she'll have your Margaret and your Papa M, and I'll have Cyril, plus others. Can't wait to pore over your catalogue.

Thankfully there are a couple of terrific new white hybrid teas to add to this list, that have been released since that last post.
Amazing Grace '07 is a fantastic HT, bred by our very own Bruce Chapman. Superbly formed with high pointed spiral blooms and the whitest of white colour. Also has a very nice fragrance. I have a couple of them and am really looking forward to them being fully grown, as they're apparently very prolific. Really love this rose. Form second to probably only Tineke (for white HT's) and fragrance second to probably only Full Sail (for white HT's).
And just released this year, Pope John Paul 2 is another outstanding white HT, which many regard as the best white HT of all time. I've been reading rave reviews of it from the US for a while and now I'm seeing rave reviews of it from here. At the annual rose trials in Adelaide last October, it dominated, winning the Gold Medal,
Marion de Boehme Memorial Award (Best Rose in Trial),
Hamilton Gardens New Zealand Perpetual Trophy (Best Hybrid Tea) and Governor of Gifu Japan Award (Most Fragrant Rose). It's renowned for its beautiful show form, strong "lemon" fragrance and the productivity and health of the bush. Was very tempted to buy one when I saw a batch of them at the local Bunnings the other day, but they are just babies and are very expensive, so I think I'll wait till they're available at better value.
As for the other top fragrant HT's, my other favs are Full Sail (pure white sport of Aotearoa, which I just found out is a parent of Amazing Grace '07) and Memoire, which is a very well formed and large, full petaled, moderately fragrant Kordes rose.
(I'll try to put one of the pics of one of my Amazing Grace's on here, but I've never put a photo on a forum before, so I may not do it properly first time.)

Here is a link that might be useful: {{gwi:2112582}}

That attempt to put the photo in didn't work very well, so here goes another!

Here is a link that might be useful: Amazing Grace '07

Pope John Paul II. Brilliant form and smell. Lasts for ages and repeat is swift.

Hi I like Atomic Blonde and Pope John Paul II as well (for conditions in Melbourne)
I also have Pascali which I love, but no fragrance unfortunately

John F.Kennedy Has my vote.
And I bet Magic Pete took the money for Youki San before he told you it wouldnt be ready for a few years he did that to me and many others

Betsyw posted her last response in Feb 06. I've just found this page and have a suggestion or two but only if Betsyw is still alive, gardening, and interested! Are you, Betsy?

B.