Many years ago in the GW soil forum there was a long discussion about the use of plastic in the garden. The general consensus was that there was never a good time to use plastics. The closest use that generated any positive opinion was solarization where the plastic is removed after the underlying stuff is killed. Your instincts about that plastic are correct. It will not stop anything. All it will do is cause a huge headache for you or the next people. Most weeds and grasses can be smothered. Solarizing might work as a start. That involves wetting the grass and soil and covering it with clear or black plastic and sealing the edges from air infiltration. Do that for a month of very sunny days. Hot sunny days are better because they tend to help with the heating. Pull it away when you think the underlying weeds are dead. After that most of the plants underneath should be rotting away. As a further precaution you can continue to smother anything alive with sand and mulch. Most people start with a product like RoundUp to renovate. Spray that once, water daily to sprout all the weed seeds, wait a week, repeat the spray to kill the new weeds, wait another week, and you should be good to go.

I'm quite sure after reading this thread that i have an answer for my early girls, which are all doing this thick leaf stem growing upwards and twisting (more like a sucker would do), with large, thick leaves that are also turning upwards and rolling/twisting. There is zero discoloration or otherwise poor health indications, i grow in the middle of 50 acres, totally organically, my own compost used, mulched with wood chips a year old from within the property. I've used zero pesticides, herbicides or fertilizers. Just compost, coco coir, water and my seedlings. They aren't stunted, are growing quite fast actually but, here in Northern California in the Sierra Nevada mountains we've seen record breaking temps between 90-105 for a few weeks straight now and I'm pretty certain my plants are just tired of baking. I'm hanging shade cloth tomorrow and will post pictures as well because it's quite bizarre how hearty they are but growing like an upside down tipi (and it's only my early girls doing this, the other varieties are all fine.)

Sorry. This will be a long one. It always is with me. (blushing) I'm with the OP on this one. Even if no one but me ever saw my lawn, I would want it to be dark, rich green GRASS...and nothing else. (I'm known for wanting everything to be beautiful. I'm also a bit of a home body, and enjoy spending time in my yard. Many guests have remarked that, no matter where they look (on my property), there's always something beautiful. I'm always taken aback by those comments, since while that was MY goal, I never expected others to pick up on it.) Case in point about the intentional act of putting down grass, and not other (lower maintenance) plants. I own a small, remote island. I made the decision to create a lawn area and, once you include the slow-moving barge fees (3 days to get from its port to the island), labour, equipment, and materials, that lawn cost me $14,000. That obviously begs the question, why, on earth, would anyone spend a nickel putting in expensive, high-maintenance grass, only to let it be taken over by clover and other weeds??? My husband and I recently purchased a 19th century farmhouse in need of roof-to-foundation renovation. As such, I inherited a lawn that is EASILY 70% weeds, including clover so thoroughly interwoven, it would be impossible to pull by hand. I pride myself on my beautiful lawns and gardens, and can spend/have sent hours, each day, ensuring everything is healthy and how I want it. At my last home, I developed a bit of a reputation for being out weeding my lawn by hand for hours, plus how awesome my expansive lawn was. My point is, I want my lawn and gardens to be a certain way; plant the plants I want; pull the plants I don't want; unafraid to put-in the effort to achieve that. I prefer not to use any kinds of "chemicals", other than the ammonia and mild soap I include in my homemade fertilizer recipe. (My last home was a beach house. So, that only reinforced my desire to go chemical-free.) But this new-to-me house is demoralizing me...practically to the point of tears, much of it because of the state of the (laughing) "landscaping". Sure, mowing can cut off 60% of the sea of clover flowers that make my lawn look white (or dying...can't decide which). But there are still lower flowers that seem to sprout up to full height within the next 24hrs after a mow. These flowers last from late spring to fall. In short, I'm plagued by clover flowers throughout the entire season I want my lawn to look great. It's just such a shame the previous owners didn't nip the clover in the bud, when each plant was jut a little, round cluster. I love catching them early, knowing I've stopped additional infiltration. But I'm helpless, overall. Looks like I'll have to replace the entire lawn; start from scratch; do what the previous owners SHOULD have done, and pulled weeds when I first see them. I'm not really buying the whole "benefits of clover" thing, amidst a grass lawn. If I wanted a clover lawn, I would plant a clover lawn. Putting down and maintaining grass is an expense in time and resources. Clover is virtually free (since it shows up on the wind), and is seemingly mantenance-free. Since most sod and grass seed are sold with some guarantee of being weed- (and clover-) free, I just don't believe that most people who spend the money and effort to put in a grass lawn, are okay with losing any percentage of it to other, invasive, undesirable plants. I kind of liken it to suggesting that a Ferrari owner would be okay with someone switching it with a Cavalier, and just saying, 'They both get me from point A to point B, so I don't mind.' I can fully envision putting in other kinds of ground cover, and have considered it at past properties. Not being my first rodeo, I already have substantial plans to reduce the amount of lawn area, and increase planting beds. But much of this current property begs for a beautiful, thick, dark green lawn...of grass. No dandelions. No clover, but particularly no clover flowers. (I'd be more okay with clover, if not for the flowers.) The desperation was so great, I did something I thought I'd never do, and tried the iron-based WEED-B-GONE product. (Harsh, chemical herbicides have been banned in my area for years...resulting in public parks being taken over by weeds, for the most part. It's such a shame, in the sense that a healthy, well-maintained lawn is not only beautiful, but fantastic underfoot.) That is really my philosophy, beyond the aesthetic. A lawn should be cool, soft, and luxurious under bare feet. Weeds, even overgrown grass, also tend to make barefoot walking less than a joy. So far, I haven't found a way to get rid of mats of clover. The WEED-B-GONE did nothing I could notice. I'm at my rope's end on ths matter, and likely will have to pull up the entire lawn, to put down new, almost-weed-free sod, where I can physically manage pulling individual weeds as they appear. I guess I'd plead with people to pull unwanted clover plants when they're small... if not for yourself, then for the next property owner. Sure, it means time, every day, or every few days, combing the lawn, looking for weeds. Yes, it can be back-breaking and time-consuming. But that grass lawn didn't get there by accident. A grass lawn is intentional.

Thought I would chime in with a thought or two on RU versus vinegar. First both are most effective when the target 'weed' is younger and is growing fast. I use both depending on the situation and target 'weed'. I do use a few drops of sticker spreader aka any dish soap in both products. Over 90 degrees seems to be most effective for vinegar. A few days after a good rain is my favorite time to attack weed problems. Active growth is key to both. Young makes for better odds of complete kill. Water the target area if need be. Plants with a waxy look to them don't absorb either product very well and so is not generally very effective. On unwanted shrubs and or woody materials I cut the plant down to close to the ground and then scar up around the sides to expose more of the cambial tissue. ( a one cell layer located between the heartwood and bark layer). Cambial tissue is what allows a plant to heal a cut and goes from root to top of most woody type plant. Then I use full strength 25 to 41 percent glyphosphate (the active ingredient in RU) with a foam brush and brush all these exposed areas with it. It is also good to use a squirt of dish soap in this solution. Be careful to only touch the areas you want killed and don't slather it on. Just a light brushing over the exposed cut and scrapped area. I have found this to take out many shrub, tree and vine like materials without affecting the surrounding plants to any noticable degree. I didn't want to be long winded but wanted to very clear about the technique. Any futher questions about this email me and I will try to clarify further. David a garden center manager at Canyon Lake