I don't know why it is so-but I find the multinaming of a rose very confusing and don't understand why it is done.
I prefer to call Frederic Mistral by his real name and not by his secondary one.
Peace isn't even Peace-it is Mme (something-can't remember) Meilland.
Queen Adelaide in Aus is known elsewhere as Yves Piaget and there are many roses the same.
Now that the whole world is connected by the web it is even more ridiculous and unnecessary.
Well that's how I feel.:)
regards
sandie

A transparent marketing ploy, if you ask me (but they never do, oddly enough). I mean, who can resist adorable strays or the Victor Chang mob? I think it can backfire, though - selling Veteran's Honor as 'City of Newcastle Bicentenary'was a surefire way to shrink its market down to pocket change. (But interestingly, when the original (as I understand it) Zary name - 'Lady in Red' - was semi-officially replaced with Veteran's Honor, the sales skyrocketed). And somebody should see if the Kordes marketing people are down the bottom of a sherry bottle. Parole/Buxom Beauty? Might as well call the thing Jailbait and Fatso.

But I still am curious as to why Meilland in particular seems to be purveyor to every conceivable cause in Australia. Soembody had lunch with somebody on this deal.

I agree, Betsy. It makes Meilland roses a bit tricky to track internationally - you really need the botanical name to do it.

The reason you see so much of this from Meilland here is that they have a specific business to sell rose naming rights. They're not the only firm to do this. Many David Austins are the same (Fisherman's Friend is an obvious one; Sharifa Asma was bought by an oil sheik to honour his wife; Kathryn Morley was bought by parents in memoriam of a lost daughter).

Kordes names are boring but at least they're more consistent. How German of them! But, as with the VW Beetle, they sometimes come up with a catchy name by accident (Iceberg for example).

The reason you see so much of this from Meilland here is that they have a specific business to sell rose naming rights

Aha! Thank you, Daniel! Yes, I knew that the Austin names were sold off - in fact, there was a piece on how to buy yourself rose naming right somewhere. But at least the fiduciary-interest Austins still have just the one name. Meilland is doing a marvellous side business by double-naming their stock - one name for rest of the world, another for Australian special interests.

I actually don't begrudge the RSPCA their 'Best Friend'. Damn fine rose, damn fine organisation. Just fascinated that Meilland has done such a roaring trade in aka's in Oz.

I've got to admit, renaming does annoy me too. Renaming Veteran's Honour really takes the cake!!

Betsy, Is it the Meilland machine that is doing the renaming? What makes you think the Meillands are interested in RSPCA, or any other in this country. I believe it is the agent in this country who does the name fiddle. Ross Roses for Yves Piaget/Queen Adelaide and Pigalle/Jubilee 150 switch for two, and Swanes for so many fiddles to attract buyers, including the Veteran's Honour shame. By the way Betsy, check your sources, Veteran's Honour was so named originally, and Lady in Red is the given name in New Zealand. God knows why, should have inquired when I was there in November last.

Betsy, I think you are being too precious about rose naming rights, and trying to make a connection with renaming roses. Sharifa Asthma sic is the name given to AUSreef. There is no other name. David Austin was probably approached, and in a business arrangement made available a seedling chosen or nominated by or for some person (I don't think he would get anything from William Shakespeare if such a deal could be brokered). I have been approached to provide a seedling for naming in memory of somebody's deceased relative. That money changes hands over such arrangements is up to the principals. I see nothing sinister or degrading in such a transaction. Why all the fuss?

Daniel, breeder's codename.

Before it was Veteran's Honor (wherever the apostrophe goes) and after it was Lady-in-Red, it was grown by a bunch of folks as something like Five Roses Rose, the name of a tea (drink, not plant).

Lozza, NOTHING makes me think for one moment that Meilland as a corporate entity has an interest in the RSPCA. Or the Chang Institute. Or diabetes. Or anything cause-related. What makes you think that that's what I was thinking? That was not the connection I was making at all. My point - probably badly expressed - was that virtually every Meilland rose I came across in Oz was renamed as part of a cause identification.

Veteran's Honor was NOT so originally named, according to the American Rose Society, from where I have gleaned the following info. It was released in 1995 under the name "Five Roses", the name Ann from Tennesse has mentioned. It was re-introduced as Veteran's Honor on the Americans' Memorial Day in 1999. renamed as a Cause rose, apparently, with 10 percent of sales donated to the Department of Veterans Affairs medical research program.

For what it's worth, I can only say that I knew it as Lady in Red before I knew it as Veteran's Honor, and I've never been to NZ. I believe a few folks at the Forum might have that memory, too, but I can't take that info to the bank.

Re Sharifa Asma: I believe I did say that it was that rose's only name: See above: But at least the fiduciary-interest Austins still have just the one name

Re sinister and degrading: HUH? My observation was only that renamed Meilland roses in Oz are conspicuously copious, as opposed to, say, Kordes or Tantau or even the Dell of roses, J&P (with apologies to the ghosts of Bill Warriner and Gene Boerner, and no, I won't battle on in this thread about J&P). That proliferation of alternative naming had to signify SOMETHING, and I think that Daniel explained the set-up very well. So there, that was the end of it.

Say, Are you mad at me because I posted a link to your gorgeous pix of bouquet of Diamond Jubilee on the US Forum?? I gave you bags of credit

Sorry Betsy, I am getting on, but the last para of your first post said it to me "No other breeder seems to be so fast and loose with renaming for local causes." I got the idea that you did not approve of breeders accepting offers for naming rights. Or is it that you object to the confusion caused by there being too many names for particular roses? Personally, I object to the marketing edge aspect whereby the name is changed in order to attract local support, and still suggest those responsible are Australian agents and not Meillands. C'est la vie, is it?

You've caught me out badly, and I apologise to readers for leading them astray. Re Diamond Jubilee, didn't know you had, didn't see it, and am happy you found a use for it. Not too shabby. For the benefit of others -

Here is a link that might be useful: Thanks Betsy

i don't care what they are called.....as long as the rose is good!....it's rare that i see a "new" rose that is nothing more than a reinvention of the proverbial wheel.....of course they need a jazzy name to sell it......do we need another red ht on the market when we already have mr lincoln and oklahoma etc?...stick to the old fav's i say and avoid the hype......but keep an eye out for the one in ten thousand or so that is new and does work.

Lozza, you know more about roses than the whole Forum put together. You never 'lead them astray' where it counts. Stupid rose names. Bah.

I got the idea that you did not approve of breeders accepting offers for naming rights.

Boy, have I led YOU astray! When I get around to it, I plan to sell off the Fifth Avenue penthouse or one of my chateaux on the Loire, and buy the renaming rights to Just Joey. Going to call it " Betsy the Absolutely Fabulous", or possibly "Betsy Wins the Pulitzer Prize" . Something catchy. Okay, not a marketer's dream, but it sure beats Meilland's/agent's new name for Guy de Maupassant (a powerful name) to "La Rose" (thanks a million for telling us)

Betsy, I think you exaggerate. Seriously, my beef with the renaming show is the blatant attempts to gull the public into being more likely to buy a rose because they associate more with the name, eg City of Newcastle, Queen Adelaide. That the general public should rise to the bait says a lot. The naming of a rose is the right of the breeder, or the raiser in the case of a sport. That he/she decides to bestow that privelige on another for reward is neither here nor there as far as I am concerned. It's a free market.

What I am most concerned about is the allocation of new names, and how and why these new names are allowed to be registered for roses that are already named. I would have thought the IRAR must be involved in registration of a new name, and its incorporation into Modern Roses.

Lozza, i agree with you . Renaming roses for marketing ploys happens . Whether it works or not i dont know. Especially naming them after cities. If anyhting it would narrow the appeal . Registration of names and changing them must be easy. I am only new to the world of roses and really dont care what they are named, as long as they look good .

I think it is hard to make a business successful and if a naming right is good commercially, I would do it if it were my business. It is not easy to make a buck these days.

I am also am concerned with roses having more than one name. If they want to sell the naming rights, then the name should be worldwide. It is very confusing buying roses or looking them up in rose books when they have more than one name. And it is very difficult for those of us at the age of early onset of dementia or alzeimer's, to remember one name for a rose, let alone two. :o))

The men in my family have just made me some metal name plates to identify my roses (to help with my memory blanks) - now I have to decide just which name to paint on many of them. Red Cedar/Loving Memory; Seduction/Matilda; Queen Adelaide/Yves Piaget; The Children's Rose/Frederic Mistral. The name plates are not really big enough for two names. Oh well, I just hope that I can find the remains of the old plastic tags to make sure I get the new ones in the right place.

Im relatively new to both my rose passion and this forum. What I am glad about tho is that I got to see those fantastic shots of Diamond Jubilee. Whatever the money makers decide to call her in the future I will always know her by her blooms and fragrance ttfn

Betsy

You stirred up a good discussion - just love your sense of humour - selling your penthouse and chateaux for naming rights to Just Joey. Lozza I think you can do no wrong in Betsy's book, or mine also.

Just tell me Lozza, when I come home with a ute load of chook poo that I have shoveled off the chicken breeders' floor, can I load it onto my rose beds? It is too much work to store it somewhere first. I can make sure it is not around the roses to begin with. Boy I am feeling a hand maiden to my ponies and my roses - that is all I do is feed them both and shovel the output of one onto the other.

Another glass of red!

Kevarose, what sort of name is that? Out with it, what's your real name so I don't get tongue-tied. I hate double handling too. In the good old days it went straight onto the beds (and still does), with a little care to keep it off the butt of the plant. (That last bit for those who read the glossies). 3 inches deep does it for a year, sometimes two years. It depends how hard I can drive Jean to get it done. Seriously, that's all you need. Don't overdo the feeding, once a year, plenty of mulch. Let Nature lend a hand and I can see you having magnificent roses. ----- and vegies, everything.

Sounds as if I owe you an apology, Kevarose, for suggesting you need to rot it down first. Was parotting what I seem to have read over and over. I shall stop worrying about rotting down the horse poo I get for free.

Sorry Meryl, didn't know you recommended that. Of course it would be stupid to pile fresh manure up the canes of our roses. I think the warning of "burning" canes is always given in such articles, so there is a choice. Let it lie for 3 months to "breakdown", leach into the ground, or otherwise run the nutrients away, or do we avoid the double handling and immediately put it around the roses carefully. Just a bit of common sense really.

And Lozza! What does that mean? LOL :-)

Kevarose, as you ask, is not my name but that of my "little precious", a young Welsh Mt pony mare with a heart of gold. Eyelashes and eyes straight from Disney. She loves kids and if you sit down to brush her, is renowned for putting her head on your chest/shoulder and going to sleep. She adores eating rose buds and flowers - can strip a whole garden in 5 minutes flat. She is only 10 hands high but she is in charge of my bigger 13 hand gelding and he has the scars to prove it. I am putting her in foal next Spring.

{{gwi:2112230}}

If I am ever as clever as you or Sandie to develop a rose, I will call it after her.

Pamela

Thanks Pamela, I think you are far too clever. How do you get an image up in your post?

I just followed the advice of Sandie and others on the top message of Conversations in this rose forum and was amazed it worked.
Pamela

Question for Daniel Hana:

You mentioned that the Kordeses came up with the interesting-sounding name, Iceberg, by accident. Do you mean that it just happened to sound interesting, or is there some kind of anecdote about how they came up with the name?

Thanks, Whitney

Iceberg was originally named 'Schneewittchen' which in German means Snowwhite so where did we get 'Iceberg'?
regards
sandie

Whitney, I didn't mean to give the suggestion that it was literally an accident. I meant that most of Kordes rose names are so boring that it almost seems like an accident when they actually come up with a good one!