My thoughts are exactly along catkim's lines. But I would just leave a very small opening (because it's only hard to pry out the first brick, and then you can always enlarge it). For a vine, you actually need just a very small opening into the ground. If you leave just two bricks out, let's say, you will be able to enlarge it if you like and the majority of your patio will be well-laid and leveled, plus the space for those two bricks will be pretty exact. Leave a bigger space than that, and it will be tricky to fill it in well. The thing about leaving a full bed the length of the stairs is everything from mess to weeding/making more mess (and dirt on patio = weed seeds sprouting on patio in the cracks), but also the risk of dropping a chair leg off the edge of the stone into the dirt. This patio is going to feel SMALL for the furniture you have in mind. I don't think you should shrink its effective size. Also keep in mind that your doorway is recessed and quite dark. A vine will make it feel and look more closed in, in case that matters to you. And these big perennial vines can get pretty overwhelming. I personally love clematis and would probably put one there, but I'm not sure I would put it in the ground. You could leave it in a pot, and always cut it back to the ground (or bottom two buds if a B-type) every year. And once it gets too vigorous (as many do after three or four years), you might like to put in a new one. This is very tricky to do in the ground adjacent to a patio without damaging the patio. Maybe some annual vines would be more fun. Again, way easier in a container. Plus, the container gives you another decor item to have some fun with. On the other hand, it takes up some space. So I would lay and tamp the whole patio but for two bricks. Undoing it later from there if you want a bigger bed is way easier than filling it in. You can minimize the crush layer in that area if you really feel you will want to open it up. By the way, is there a basement here? If so, you want your subgrade to tilt away from the house. Karin L

I would also consider a 2-level approach or something similar that lets you make the transition to ground seem more gradual. There is also the idea that you may find you want to do a good deal of grilling the food outside, then eat inside, because well, it is just so convenient and you can grill under less ideal circumstances than required for outdoor dining. The utilitarian steps down to patio just to get to the grill will be a barrier to that. The problem with same level is that you have to use decking, then it does tend to force you to a large deck, then a large area underneath it plus lattice or whatever, plus maintenance--though new deck materials as you suggest make that less of an issue. So I do not want to discourage you from thinking about having a "stone" patio that is part of the yard. I think over time that area could be very nice and will feel more permanent--properly landscaped. So the deck idea gives a more immediate sense of its being just an extension of your kitchen and feeling like a "room", but the patio has the ability to feel "in the yard", as noted above. The problem with bi-level structures is you have to design carefully so that neither part is too small to be useful or it breaks up your party in the wrong way. So, for example, if you envision 6 guys or gals yakking around the grill, you want room for that in your design. I think the deck landing as shown in your picture has that dreaded ubiquitous tacked-on landing look that just gets you up and down, and if you do actually make just steps, I would try to put more into their design to make a more graceful descent to the yard--whether that is broader, curved, or something. Of course that might be too expensive, so part of the fun of the forum is that we can brainstorm about how you might spend your $$! Really, just giving you things to think about. Broad steps or more gradual transition type structures can also often be used as seating/dining (for kids) as long as is wide enough. You don't show anything about the exposure of the back of the house, sun patterns, etc, so any design needs to think ahead to whether you will plant trees for shade, use umbrellas, arbor, or what--meaning, leave space in yard, or plan layout of space.

John Hyatt - $950?? Wow! I take it you're definitely not in the NoVA (metro DC area) market? I'm guessing it's a regional pricing difference with the labor being the difference since most of the quotes that I've received are in the same ballpark, if not higher. How much would it cost for you to come out and build me a deck? :) :) :) Anyway, since we're talking about what pricing here in this area costs, here are some more examples: one contractor even came back with the price $3980 for the 10x4 deck area with steps (for a Trex)! The lowest price ($2394, from another deck contractor) that I've received is for either TT Twin Finish or Earthwood and if I want the XLM upgrade, it would be an additional $360 ($2709 total). He mentioned that for XLM, it's $10 sq. ft. and $9 sq. ft. for Earthwood. Another fairly large and well known contractor here in the area quoted me $2950 for AZEK or XLM and $2750 for Earthwood. As you can see, the NoVA/DC/MD market definitely commands a higher price premium, and let's not get started on how much houses here cost! Anyway, my wife and I are still trying to decide between stones vs. steps. In your opinion, what are the differences, pros and cons, between going with a stone vs. a deck? One realtor (a neighbor) suggested going with a stone since it does provide a greater ROI and value over a deck material and in terms of first impressions and appearance, a stone makes a bolder statement over a deck. Thoughts?

The answer has to do with personal preference, and in my case, I prefer rectangular. In fact, I prefer the regular brick shape over other pavers. It's old school but versatile and trustworthy. Easy to walk on, too, where some of the cobble looking pavers are a b., depending on what kind of shoes a person wears. If by "trestles for ivy" you mean trellises, search Google image for that term.