Wow...I didn't realize my printing was that neat!! I get a lot of those comments over on the WS forum but it's just the way I've always printed, whether using a pencil, pen or marker. Thanks heaps echman, deanna & marquest!! After I got an "F" in 5th grade penmanship, I must have sub-consciously become more careful & precise whenever I picked up something to write with. When I first moved here, the neighbors all laughed at my plant labels. When spring rolled around, they weren't laughing...they were asking me to come tell them what plants were in their flowerbeds. Once I started winter sowing, they brought me seeds to grow for them. So far I've grown apple & pear trees for one neighbor and blackberry lily for another. Cracks me up to get home from work and find an envelope or ziplock baggie of seeds stuffed inside the door with a note that reads, "Please grow these for me." Winter sowing & seed trading has opened up a whole new world of perennial plant opportunities for me, at a price that's affordable for experimenting to see how the plants & I like each other. Not everyone has the space or opportunity to WS hundreds of milk jugs so the colorful, glossy catalogs of lush plants (photoshopped or not) will still rake in lots of inexperienced new gardeners. Thanks to the GardenWeb forums, we may collectively save some of them from repeating a few of our own mi$take$.

northerner_on - I decided to Google White Knight and see what else I could find and you're right that Dave's data is incorrect. I found Estabrook's (southern Maine) website. They sell an extensive selection of Shasta daisy cultivars, including White Knight and Snow Lady. Their website shows WK growing 18-22." I sure wish they shipped outside of Maine--they've got 'Esther Reed' which I tried to get seeds of via a trade but was disappointed the person I was trading with posted them for trade but didn't follow through and send them to me. I bought 'Banana Cream' last year on a half-price perennial sale and will have those seeds available for trade this fall. Perhaps the two of us can arrange a trade. Good luck and be sure to post your results growing the White Knight from seed.

People here are receiving seeds and starting them already, and i've just made an order! Mostly, i've waited because i'd be too tempted to start things earlier if i got them earlier, and i wanted to start things like petunias and impatiens a little later than last year. Anyway, here is what i've ordered from Vesey's: Pepper Orange Sun Swiss Chard Orange Fantasia Cosmos Sonata Mix Osteospermum Passion Mix Petunias O Canada Mix Petunias Ramblin' Red Petunias Tidal Silver Wave Petunias Tidal Wave Hot Pink Campanula Dwarf Pink Snow Pansies Mix Pansy Rhapsody Mix Impatiens Tempo Mix Impatiens Seaside Mix Hemerocallis 'Startle' Lilium 'Centrefold' (3 more bulbs - i can't wait for the one i already have to multiply!) Astrantia collection (thank you, enablers!) Lilium 'Starfighter' Dahlia 'Freak of Nature' Dahlia Pinwheel Mix That's only Veseys! Eep! The old Visa was vibrating! :>

I am seriously giving it some thought, cj! I would like to plant some garlic in and around some plants in that front bed. Funny how fast that is filling up. A few years ago, I planted a hardy hibiscus, Fantasia, and that was all I had out there, excpet for a few sunflowers planted off and on. About 3 years ago, I planted another hibiscus, Texas Star (actually Hibiscus coccinus), and 2 years ago I planted some Liatris spicata bulbs. They multiply pretty fast so I had a nice stand last year. Last year, I planted my Tulip Tree (Liriodendon tulipifera)out there (it's omly about 3' tall so far, so it will take some time for it to get bigger, and I am going to try to keep it small) and a White Profusion Butterfly Bush. I still have a butterfly bush (Peacock) to plant there and a Buttonbush (Cephalanthus occidentalis) to go there, too. I plan to put some Salvias out there, but think I can swing a tomatoe plant or two, and some garlic for now as well. Garlic is a good general preventative for some insects and diseases. Eventually, I would like to cut down one of the Austrian pines that overshadow much of my front lawn area. They were planted before I moved here 12 years ago and were small then, but they have grown so much. Probably because I have put in a lot of good soil around them! LOL! Anyway, they are much too big for the yard size I have, and one is going to have to go. I will ask that they mulch it so I can have some of it for mulch. Kind of like recycling. I was hoping that ice storm we have a few years back would take out some of the trees that line my back yard on 3 sides, but they have just grown back....sigh... Talk about bad planting. They planted those hackberries and elms about 3' apart and now they are all diseased and stunted and look awful. The upside is that I get lots of Hackberry Emperor and Tawny Emperor butterflies, and lots of Question Mark and Mourning Cloak butterflies. I call it Hackberry alley back there. Rose of Sharons have taken over as well - geez, Louise! And lots of weedy shrubs and stuff that I am trying to identify. I do have a lot of clover (Trifolium) and Mistflower (Coniclinum), some pipevine for the Pipevine Swallowtails, Lobelia (red), Spigelia marilandica (Indian Pink), Oak Leaf Hydrangea, Fragrant Sumac, violets, lilies, clematis, hostas, Jack in the Pulpits, Arums, Indigofera kirilowii, a forsythia that has white net-leaf foliage, campanulas, Contorted Mulberry, Lady Bells, Beautyberry, Rue for my Black Swallowtails and Giant Swallowtails, Purple Coneflowers, Variegated Solomon's Seal, Elderberry, HelLebores, Holly Ferns, Variegated Petasites japonica, lots of stuff. But, it pretty shady back there and not suitable for growing vegetables. The butterflies, moths, and birds like it. So, I will be thinking more about what I can tuck into my front bed. Thanks for the encouragement! Susan