Blaferby, I have seen improvement in yield, etc. when saving and using seed from my own garden. But I don't know how much of that is because of selection and how much is because I learn how to better grow the given variety. I've been seriously saving seeds since 1984. Here's what I would suggest. You can go ahead and use your extra seeds, for as long as you desire. But make a practice of producing some new seed every year that you can. Save each batch separately, and label it accurately. Eventually your original seed will give out. It's always possible that you might get an unintentional cross in a batch of seed. By saving several batches, you better ensure the survival of the original variety. If you really want to go the extra mile, save some of your seed in a sealed jar, in the freezer. This essentially halts the aging process of the seed. I once grew out a squash from seen which had been 25 years in a freezer. It germinated as if it were only a year old, and... I was amazed how my more recent seed stock had morphed over the years. I had essentially narrowed the gene pool, changing the mix of characteristics in the variety. George Tahlequah, OK

True, I do not have anything around it, so that might help as it is plastic covered and not wood. The windows on top were frozen this morning, frost outside and the condensation inside was ice. I was for a long time saving shreaded paper and using it under mulch, not sure I have any bags of it left. I did find 2 bales of straw a few weeks ago, curbside for recycling, but when I went to pick them up, they weighed a ton, were soaking wet. I wonder also if it might be losing heat so fast because the windows are single pane glass? So many options. As long as I can keep it above 25 or so in there, I should be good, there is nothing super tender and nothing that needs to be activly growing at present. F.J. Grootendorst, I would love one, I posted some time ago to see if anyone had cuttings to share and never got respones, I have the pink, it was supposed to be a 'Robusta', I got it as a body bag from Wal*Mart a few years back. I think there are actually four of them, F.J., Grootendorst Supreme, pink and white. I should actually move mine, because it is in an area of microclimate, to the point that I think I might be able to push things to zone 7 there. I have 3 Teas planted near it, waiting to see how they fair this winter...Duchesse de Brabant, Mme. Franziska Kreuger and Blumenschnidt Evolving conversation...yes it is, I come on line just to check this thread sometimes, see how things are going and what progress we have...it is good! Gerry

Hi again, Being I would have to see the flower, it is hard to say. But since they came out easy, maybe. It isn't that they are drying in the dead flower, they are ripening. When the flower is finished, the seeds are starting to develop. How long depends on the type of flower. For some it is very quick, 4 O'Clocks come to mind. Other seem to take forever to ripen. When flowers like marigolds are finished, the seeds as you know ripen in the base of where the flower was. You have to wait for the base to dry up before taking the seeds out to ensure they have properly ripened. So the whole process is sort of like a pregnancy. The flower blooming part is when the sex happens. Then the seed ripening time is like a baby developing. If you remove the seeds too soon, they haven't developed properly. It is like a premature birth. The drying once you remove the seeds, is because there is a residual amount of moisture in them. If you store them before it is gone, you risk the chance of moisture collecting and causing mold which kills the seed. Hope that makes sense, Remy

Bleach can be used - and it really works - but bleach is way harsh. I use 3% hydrogen peroxide solution with impunity around seeds and plants. It doesn't seem to bother them at all. Not sure how effective H2O2 would be on salmonella, but I wouldn't be worrying much about it anyway. Remember, salmonella is already in the environment, just not in large quantities as in some poultry. Dennis