Please disregard this post which I meant to place in the regular forum.

Thank you for the replies. Poet's jasmine is Jasminum officinale, and is a vigorous plant. That's a good point about reducing air circulation. I think what I will do is plant the jasmine and see how it does in my situation. That way I can get a feel for it. What a wonderful picture of the banksia! And the doubles are fragrant? Hmm. The idea to run a cylinder around the tree I like, spikes in the tree were worrying me a bit, even though I think it's big enough to handle some injury, there's always a risk. Douglas firs tend to have kind of a starfish pattern to their roots, I'm pretty sure that I'll be able to dig between the roots fairly far out and have reasonable moisture. I've notice that our ground tends to stay moister in the summer under the trees than way outside them; perhaps because I have sandy soil? I don't know. I was actually more worried that the water for the rose would be too much for the tree's roots! I'll have to go dig some holes to make sure there's room for the roses; but I don't anticipate a problem, I planted some Japanese Maple seedlings on the other (slightly shadier north) side of it, and the roots didn't interfere there. I'll take a look at Treasure Trove, what a wonderful name; and the Gardenia thread makes it sound promising too. Plus, the amusement value of telling unsuspecting people that I have a Gardenia growing into a tree is immense!

Tree or standard roses can be made without grafting. Select a strong vertical shoot. Prune to 3' or whatever. Dig out the budeyes except for a few at the top. (These are where every leaf is or was attached.) Remove all the other basal shoots at the graft. Install a permanent stake and fasten the standard (trunk) to it. When new shoots appear at the top, pinch out the tips when they are around a foot long to encourage branching. Rip out new basal shoots as they appear. This doesn't work well with all varieties, as in many cases the trunk will wear out after 5+ years and not support vigorous growth. This type of plant is known as a "self-standard."

Old roses are best not pruned until the third year when they have formed their shape.They are basically divided into two groups in regards to pruning.The first group are those that bloom once. These roses are pruned during the summer right after they have bloomed back by one third. This gives them time to make new wood to bloom on the next year. Twice blooming old roses are pruned in early spring before growth starts and again back by one third after the second flush.