That's what I'm thinking. Worst comes to worst, I'll at least eat/dry them and that's better than a landscaping company ripping them up and tossing em. So far, everyone looks pretty happy. Gave the Chard a deep/big pot; the celery a wide one. The Collards have one my genuinely Huge Pots and so far isn't dying. The kale is kind of unhappy. Gave kale a 'normal' pot as I had run out of bigguns. Ate the Carrots already once research said they weren't so viable. This is kind of an experiment for me, and Maybe my trials of seeing how this goes can help other gardeners in a similar position. I'll keep it updated on my end. Who knows? It's always better to try and be hopeful than to just give up? Any other advice is always most welcome, as well. If anyone else does something similar, I'm soooo very down to hear your ideas. :) Thanks for the feedback as well, Christine!

Hello everyone, Many, Many thanks for your encouraging words about both my Mom and the lilies. To those of you who like 'Angelus Curlicue' I bought her from Robin Calderon of Earlybird Daylilies this past spring. Robin sends amazing clumps! Her daylilies are also very inexpensive (I don't know how she can make any money!). I highly recommend her as an inexpensive source for daylilies and you will get very generous clumps. She is also very nice. kitcatclub...yes, I do have voles in my gardens and have lost many lily bulbs over the years. I haven't lost many lately since Fat Cat Nemo and Lily have been patrolling the gardens. I do lose a few each year it seems. Do you have those horrible red lily beetles in NY? They are destroying my lilies and I can't spray because I have so many bees and butterflies about. I really appreciate ALL of you here on the forum, for your friendship and all the sharing. I am so glad I found this place. Celeste

I once had a few dozez tall bearded iris, they are just the best cut flowers I can think of, just huge , wonderful, blooms. (though I never really like iris fragrance, its reminds me of cat pee) but I just plant el cheapos now, sometimes put a small order ever few years for a handful, they will all eventually die out due to the borers. So I will not invest that much time or money in them. In regards to paypal, Ive never experienced any issues with online payments with them. BTW you can set up a online bank with a fdic insured bank (many of them are just branches of thier physical building) and transfer small amounts into it to cover what you want. Then also set up a paypal "only" email account as well. This will take about a couple hours, but it puts lots of walls in front of someone trying to get information from you. Truth be told, more poeple will be "scammed" into giving thier money away then anyone ever hacking into an account and finding information. Silverkelt

Yes, naturally I've thought about what the difference between incandescent and metal halide (and/or HPS, florescent) before, even when the lumen output is exactly the same. But from what I've read that's actually about the spectrum of light it produces that makes the difference. So naturally I wouldn't be using incandescent light to grow plants with. With that in mind, wouldn't it be safe to assume that the "par" and "mole" output of a 400 watt MH would be higher than that of a 100 watt MH (assuming it's measured at the same distance). At the same time the lumen output of the 400 watt MH would be higher than the 100 watt MH (respectively). One thing I haven't exactly found an answer for is, why the lumen drop is significantly more the farther away it is for florescent lights verses MH or HPS. What I've concluded is that it most likely has to do with the wattage. Kind of like water coming out of a hose, the higher the pressure, the farther the water will reach. And just by using more florescent lights to increase the overall wattage, that wont increases the wattage (pressure) of each individual bulb (therefore, light intensity of that bulb). I'm particularly interested in LED lighting. And again here is a place that I have not yet found any reliable info from researchers and/or university's on the subject yet. And I recently read a news story about a new high intensity LED lighting, but after over an hour of trying to find anything else about that new "high intensity LED light" I found nothing. I used different keywords, and not even refining the results to .edu sites (but including any sight). All I found was a a link to the manufacture, and even their info is extremely limited. Here are the links Recent advancements in LED technology This supposed to be the manufacture I'm mostly interested on LED because of the reduced electrical costs. I would like to learn enough about them where I can build my own lights. But I have never found an answer to my first question, is there a particular type of LED needed (not referring to color). Or will any blue/red ect. LED work. I know what manufactures will say, they don't want you to build your own, so getting the truth from them would be extremely rare. My guess is that not all blues/reds etc. are the same and that there is a specific spectrum/s of LED color needed to work correctly. Anyhow I have not had time to read that document I printed out yet. It's on my desk in my room right now, but I have something else I need to complete before I can concentrate on it. That will most likely be in about 2-3 days.