jmith, thank you AGAIN! I really appreciate your posts :-) Uh...where does the air make-up unit go?? Breezygirl, wow, thank you for your thoughtful and reasoned post! Yes, upon reflection, an underccounter oven would not be good for my back. I was thinking that maybe I would only use the second oven for parties and holidays, but sometimes we have friends over every weekend. Good point about the cost of separate ovens. I do like the look of double ovens, too. Especially the Bosch 800 series and the Kenmore Pro, but it is very hard to find anything on them...few mixed reviews online. I will ask on this forum. And do some research on Electrolux as well, since they seem to be popular here. I saw the Wolf cooktop at Great Indoors. My mother has a Wolf range, but she hates to cook. Lol. OK, will also look for the Capital. Hadn't heard of it until this forum. Yes, found ajmadison and HomeEverything. HomeEverything has slightly better prices, and usually free shipping. Yes, you're right, I couldn't find a published price on the GE Monogram counter-depth anywhere. I have to call or email each site to get the price, and from what you and the GI saleslady said, there probably won't be much difference except for no tax if I buy online. I have accepted that I can't vent with an OTR MW. I will have to spring for an undercabinet hood. Bleah. $1400. Ugh. Loss of cabinet space. Boo. I am thinking that, since I was planning for stacked 42" + !2" or 36" + 18", I will have to mount the MW under a cabinet...h'mmm...maybe I will have to do a mullion door on a 36" or 42", since the 12" or 18" are supposed to be mullion? Thought briefly about putting MW in island, but kids are 6 and 10 and tall, too. LOVE the Kitchens forum. Haven't posted my floor plan yet, trying to get up the courage to post pics of my truly UGLY kitchen. It doesn't look as bad or difficult on the floor plan as it does in the pictures Will check with contractor. Presumably he is up on all this stuff. Never heard of MUA until cooksnsews mentioned it! The GE Monogram ZFSB25DXSS is currently $3825 @ Great Indoors, on sale. I liked it bc it is 25 cu ft and well-planned inside. It looks.like close to the same amount of space that we have in our KA Superba, which we bought 9 years ago and has never given us a problem. I will look at KA fridges, thank you! I need the MW drawer money for the undercabinet hood. Boo. But the fridge isn't in my appliance budget, anyway. Lol.

"What would you say is the biggest difference between the gas or electric for the main oven" There are some very specific differences. Most people like their food to be browned because it adds flavor to what you are cooking. In order for food to be brown, the Maillard reaction must take place. In order for this to happen, need to evaporate water. I would look at what happens in either oven. In a gas oven, there is moisture released in the combustion of gas but because there is much more ventilation in a gas oven, it and the moisture from what you are cooking are ventilated out so you have superficial drying of your food which promotes browning. This will also add more heat to your kitchen. An electric oven is more of a closed system so will hold on to the humidity more. You can increase the superficial evaporation in an electric oven by increasing the heat or using the fan. In reading some marketing materials, Wolf and Capital, come to mind, they will state that gas is "moist heat". In the past that was the belief. That would be true of the flame but does not take into consideration the oven as a whole and the effect it has on what you are cooking. They also seem to think that the external moisture from the "moist heat" produces moist meat when it would have nothing to do with it. It is a function of the internal temperature. There are certain irreversible physiological changes to meat as the temperature rises which dictate the amount of moisture in meat fibers. Some also attribute crispiness to the moistness but again is is drying that produces that. On on the other hand, an electric oven can hold on to moisture which can be a benefit in baking because it promotes starch gelatinization. It can affect the amount of rise, browning and crust formation. This is why bread bakers add moisture at the beginning of baking and/ or use a cloche in a gas oven. The cloche is then removed or moisture allowed to escape and the drier environment promotes browning.

Thanks so much. Definitely not a cut rate price, and I have no need for color. I was just excited yesterday, after seeing it, but now a little reality and reason has crept back in! Bosch really seems like the best-featured oven for a price I can reasonably do...But I'm not sure how much weight to give the service issue. Obviously, it's worked against me in my situation with F&P...Since they consider us 'rural' and don't seem to want to deal with us anymore, or, maybe more precisely, seem to have a heck of a time finding people to do the service. My F&P oven baked superbly, just wasn't well constructed. We bake and otherwise use our oven a LOT, and for large batches/amounts of food for our large family. I want an oven that bakes well, won't have the porcelain bubble out, and that will be serviced if necessary...Also, that isn't $4000 or $5000, but more like $2000-$3000...Is this possible? Any suggestions? :-)

Sorry about the delay Tom, Still doing even more research since I know you want double ovens. My oven is an Elux Icon Designer Series 30" oven, purchased for $1617.00 in april of 2006. (E30EW75ESS). We chose the Icon because of the larger door glass and the designer series due to the curved handles (our kitchen is "One Big Curve")-- even a very expensive and fancy cooktop (36" semi circle). That turkey (Non Elux) died in less than 2 years and forced us to redo the granite--nobody else made a curved one--(But I Digress). My oven was replaced by Model # E30EW75GSS. After reading many reviews on that oven, AJMadison, Sears, Best Buy etc I would recommend to stay away from that one! That oven was replaced by # EW30EW55GS. with the exception of a review or 2, this oven is getting all 5 Star Reviews, Sears, Best Buy, Retreivo, AJMadison etc--in fact I am posting a link for some of the reviews at the bottom of this post. Sooooo, I'm "all set" to recommend this one to you, but you want "Double Ovens". So we look up the model number for the double oven, # EW30EW65GS, expecting to see the same "good news". OH OH, reviews totally different, display problems, and enough other problems, that I really can't recommend it over the Viking. Strange that the same model double oven has problems whilst the single doesn't? My guess is, due to the larger "Metal Mass" of 2 ovens, that that metal is not cooling down quickly enough to keep the heat out of the delicate Electronic parts. Perhaps Antss or one of our other Oven experts has a theory on my "Sorry Find"? So, at least reading all the reviews I did, I certainly would not recommend it over the Viking (at this time), Like You, I do wish there was more info about the Viking! I wished I had better news for you, and I "Highly recommend" that you goggle "EW30EW65GS" yourself and draw your "Own Conclusions". Best Regards! GAry Here is a link that might be useful: Elux Oven Reviews