$1800 is all I would pay. $2000 max. The sum of money left unpaid until the job is done has to be substantial enough to ensure completion.

I would hold back the 10 percent for exactly the reasons you state. $600 will not get them back. If the KD was expecting your payment as a commission (which you don't know), then s/he won't have any incentive to push for your work to get done if only $600 is out there.

It's business. Don't be pushed around, and don't let the "spirit of the season" leave you with a kitchen you don't like the day after christmas. The KD should recognize it's business, and should not be waiting on your payment to buy his kids presents.

I agree, do NOT pay any of the final payment until you are FULLY satisfied. What incentive do they have to getting the job completed promptly and to your satisfaction if you pay them? If they didn't screw up in the first place, you wouldn't have to worry about it being Christmas time. Remember both you and the company agreed to the payment terms before anything got started, and now they want to change the terms. If you tried to change the terms, they would say no. Stand by your rights and have them complete the job. You've already paid them 90%, they can wait for the final 10% when you are happy!

Like the other say better to withhold the whole 10%.
But if It were me if they have beem good with everything else so far the I would consider paying 1800 and with hold the other 1800.

I think I would say, "I'm sorry, but I feel it's important to stick to the terms of the contract. Plus, so many times, it's the little stuff at the end of the job that drags on, or gets forgotten. There have been enough things overlooked that I feel I need this incentive to make sure someone at your company is on top of our small remaining issues. I'm sure you understand."

I personally would pay it; you say it's a good company and you have a good relationship. I've done this in the past and I never regretted it.
I would withold 1,000 and show good faith.

I'd pay 1800 max. I've had a lot of screw ups, and the ONLY times things have been fixed is when I've refused to pay. One time, I agreed to pay (such nice guys, etc.). They never came back to finish the one little thing...

It's money. It's business. I like tally sue's phrasing...

Francy

Lynn,

Would $3600 cover the cost of what's left to do? When my kitchen guy (I'm the GC) asked for his next to last payment, I tried to figure out the $$$ of the bits and pieces not done yet. He asked for $12,500, I figured I only owed him $11,600, so he said $10,000 would be good enough, like a ninny I gave him the total $11,600, cuz things were going good at that point, and I really like him, and figure we have a pretty good relationship. Lo and behold, it seems like the brakes have been put on my kitchen being finished. I definitely am not the #1 priority as days go by with nothing being done. I now think I really underestimated the value of what's left to do, and I basically couldn't walk away and get things finished with what I have left to pay him.

It COULD just be a coincidence?.... But, I didn't have a contract outlaying payment schedules. If you do, and if the final 10% is to be held until EVERYTHING is finalized, it would be reasonable to stick to your guns and withhold the last 10%. If you feel obligated to pay for what you have already recieved, then at least withhold the exact $$$ of what your replacement costs are.

I would withhold the amount of the items left to be done, adding to that cost an approximation of the amount of time it would take to install the items (say it would take 3 hours and they charge $85/hour, then withhold the amount of the items plus $255 for labor), and perhaps the 17% markup they put on everything (your markup for waiting?? LOL). I would imagine those fridge doors aren't cheap, so in the end it probably will be around $1500. At least you could explain how you came to your number. In any event, I would withhold at least $1000, and it sounds like it would be at least that with everything added together.

I've seen contracts that say that the final payment is due at "substantial completion" - basically, before the punch list is done. I've never been comfortable with that.. I agree, if you don't hold back enough to make it a priority for them to finish the job, they just won't get around to finishing it.

What, exactly, does your contract say about when the final 10% is due? Although in any case I'd want to hold back 10% until final completion.

I wouldn't pay the 10% until the job is complete, and SHAME ON THEM FOR EVEN ASKING!! The terms of the contract are there to protect both parties. Did they do the first 10% of the job without any money from you?? Then they shouldn't ask the same of you.

If you don't pay them the remaining 10% until the end, you'll have nothing to regret, but if you do pay the remaining amount, you may have something to regret.

I wouldn't pay either. The little things won't get done unless there is a chunk of money waiting at the end of the job.

If your KD is waiting for his cut for xmas gifts, then that's his/her problem- not yours. I'm sure they have a credit card they can use. And they wont incur any interest if they pay it off w/in 30 days!!! So, you should get the items you need by then. Don't feel bad.

I'm guessing that they actually want to close the books on the job before the change of year.

But I agree with what's been said. Even if, as Perel said, the contract says the 10% is due at "substantial completiong" rather than at the absolute end, don't pay 'em until it's done. Let them sue and let the judge figure out what "substantial means" :) (Don't worry, it'll cost them less to finish your job than take you to small claims.) But Talley Sue said it so very well! Honey rather than vinegar :)

Thank you all so much for the advice, your reasoning behind it and (Tally Sue, especially) great ways to say it. I'm calling our KD in just a minute to tell him.

Typically "commission" is based on a percentage of sales, and not on that last payment. Don't let that make you feel bad. If the KD really is paid that way, you'd think that they would have worked their bumm off to get the job done in time for the holidays wouldn't you? It's more likely that they want the books cleared, but either way, that's their issue, not yours.

Don't let friendship get in the way of business. Follow the contract and ask them to do the same. When this is all done, they won't be coming over to dinner...you're a job they want finished, no matter how "nice" they seem. They will remember it's a business relationship...and you should do the same!

let us know how it goes.

Can't tell you how many people including my sister have been shall we say taken advantage of? by the, Spirit of the season, reasoning, the I really need the money now. Yeah we all do, tough cheese. If you'd done your job right you would have been paid by now.

Don't be swayed.

Don't pay until the job is complete!

You lose ALL your leverage the minute you pay. If the job is not done yet, you shouldn't owe the final payment. You need to have enough withheld to complete the job in case they never come back. If your contractor says he won't return without payment, BEWARE!

Oh carp! I'm going to be in a similar situation. Yet I also told Lynnie to wait until the job is done. It feels different when the shoes are suddenly on my feet!

My counters will be installed Jan 11. My custom cabinet guy has been pretty great (though very, very, very, very slow). He doesn't want to do the finishing touches on the farm sink (scribing it in tightly) until the counters are in (b/c he wants to give the counter guys some wiggle room to get the sink situated just right).

But his cabinets will be done next week.

Our contract was a bit different: 50% down payment. Other 50% on completion.

Shoot, shoot, shoot. My husband says he'll withhold 10% until the final scribing is done. But this will definitely feel embarrassing. My relationship with the cabinet maker has been something of a "father-daughter-don't worry-I'll-take-care-of-your-kitchen-I-want-to-see-you-happr-dear" type. It's just me and the "one man show" cab guy.

Oh shoot! What should I do?? If I pay everything, I know I'll lie awake at night worrying. Especially given how slow he does things. But previous tinkering with the details of our contract have all been done on a handshake basis. So we seem to have established ourselves as people of honor.

Bottom line: I'll be worried sick if I pay everything. Yet how do I withold the 10% without awkwardness??

I'm thinking of asking him to wait til next year to finish the cabs (he needs to do the doors, drawers, and dishwasher panel. Right now we just have the boxes.). That way, he and the counter guys will be done at the same time.

Tally Sue, do you have an elegant way of phrasing this for me? Basically, I want to say, "I don't want to pay you until the job is done. So don't finish it until the middle of january."

Help!

Francy

francy - don't panic and don't tell your cabinet guy to delay anything or your job will end up taking even longer. When the bulk of the job is done pay the balance minus the 10%. Holding back 10% is standard - if you have to make your husband the bad guy.

Francy,

One of the things I am learning through all the awkward moments created by situations we'd rather not be in; is; better to be honest. Don't anticipate problems either. If he asks for the total 50% before he's TOTALLY finished, just tell him you'd be more comfortable holding a portion back until it's all done.

But, MAYBE he won't even be done until after Jan.11, and it will be a non-issure.

We just had (well, to be honest, my DH had, cuz I was too chicken), an awkward conversation with our kitchen guy, basically telling him the last cabinet he delivered (which he made himself), was not of acceptable quality, and that we wanted all the rest of our work to be done by a cabinet maker. (Long...long story). Was very hard, cuz we really like this guy and we KNOW he's trying his best, but he's being asked to wear too many hats, and the carpenter one just doesn't fit him. Well, today when he was here, (wearing his granite installer hat), he told me that he really appreciated My DH's being honest with him, and that he felt sorry for how obviously uncomfortable my DH was making the call.

Francy, I don't see the problem since he isn't done...(you said there are doors to be done still?) Or will that be done next week? Well even with that, he still won't be "complete" until the sink issue is finished, so I'd approach it a different way.

We know that you have to wait until the counters are in to complete the job, but we would like to pay you something since you're almost done and just waiting. I thought we'd go ahead and give you 40% and then we'll finish it all off when the job is complete as stated in the contract. Smile and hand him the check.

You should be fine :o)