Stain should be hand wiped, not sprayed. Painted cabinets should be maple over poplar. The final finish coat should be a catalyzed lacquer off site in a clean room.

Time for a quote from Cabinet maker C.

Stain can be sprayed or wiped. Some finishers can't spray stain because they might not have a small nozzle and needle on their spray gun. Then because stain is such a thin material, it flies all over. With the right spray system it goes on beautifully and then it can be wiped. Wiping works well too, but on a big job it is so much easier to spray.

How important is the catalyzed lacquer finish? Is that a must have or a nice to have if the budget allows?

Stain can be sprayed with no problem- we spray apply and then wipe. It is easier for application than wiping on for sure but there are also a lot of spray only stains out there that are wonderful but are harder to apply so most use them for "toners"

I would shy away from the site finish. Too much dust. We finish with all the parts apart so we can get a better coat on. People have been site finishing for years but I would not want it.
Catalyzed finish for sure..Durability is much better than the old non cat finishes. The baking on in an oven does not mean a thing. It just allows the finish to cure faster so that they can move the cabinets sooner.

Maple or poplar for painted are good. Maple is a little harder. We use both in our shop.

Travis Alfrey
Aberdeen, NC

Thank you for the response cribbs, you are obviously a professional so your insight is much appreciated.

What do you think of the Birch for staining? If it matters, we are looking at a very dark stain (espresso). The company who finishes onsite (option 2 above) uses maple, for the one who finishes offsite (option 1 above), maple would be a significant upcharge (of 10-20% I believe). To be honest, option two (who finishes onsite) offers as a standard many of the things that option one has as an upgrade (which I will not be likely able to afford so will have to do without). I don't believe that we will have problems with dust as we aren't doing any major construction than the cabinet installation, is the difference in finish quality so drastic as to take them out of the running completely (considering the other upsides)? Can they do the cat finish onsite?

This whole selection process is so confusing because it seems that I am having difficulty finding everything that I want from one supplier within my budget, so I am having to figure out which things should be an absolute dealbreaker vs. which things would just be nice to have if you can afford it. I am meeting with one of them (option 1) tonight and setting up a meeting with the other (option 2 soon so am still trying to work out the questions that I need to ask.

Option 2 may offer significant upgrades for free, but you'll more than make up for that with what you pay to deal with the mess at your house. You'll have problems with dust from the sanding of the cabinets, not from anything else.
You definitely want maple for painted cabinets. I'd avoid site finishing at ALL COSTS.

Birch and maple are both difficult woods to stain. They can be very blotchy in the hands of an inexperienced finisher. Dark stains are not ideal on either. Cherry would be a better choice if you want a dark stain, but it's a higher budget category. Oak also takes a dark stain quite well and is more budget friendly. What a budget finisher can do to get birch or maple dark is to apply a tinted top coat. This obscures the grain rather than lets it show through, and it also can look really bad if it ever chips. I wouldn't recommend it.

Onsite finishing of a clear varnish is for fools who only think they are custom cabinet makers. The catalyzed finish is a must have on non-factory cabinets. It's a given on factory cabinets and that's what gives them their durability and it's where they are superior to that kind of hack. And it's what sets apart the wanna be custom makers from the guys who have the experience, skill, and economic means to be able to afford a wood shop. If a cabinet maker doesn't own a wood shop in which to make his cabinets, RUN away. Subbing out the finish to an actual finisher is sometimes done if the maker doesn't have skill in that area, but he should work with a partner on that and not leave you hanging to find a finisher who you pay separately. Making and finishing work together. If the maker doesn't hire the finisher directly, then he's got a problem somewhere that they wouldn't work for him. That usually means money or skill is lacking.

And you should be seeing samples of any of these cabinets under consideration, as well as viewing older installations in homes that have lived with them for a while.

And it doesn't sound like either of your choices is the right one for the job. Find someone else.

Sigh, well, it is starting to become clear that custom cabinets just may not be for me given the amount of money that I want to spend. I have been offered by both to come out and see examples of their work, but was waiting on the actual quotes to see if they would even be in the running. And that doesn't seem to be the case (with option 2 for sure). I have been to the showroom.

I guess I haven't been wary of birch because we had a lovely stairway bannister custom made and birch was used. It was stained a medium color, and is quite pretty, and has held up nicely. Granted the proportion is much smaller, and it doesn't take near the abuse and wear and tear that a kitchen would. The cabinet maker who would be using birch is a larger local shop, they have been around for 30 years and have a good reputation, so I would expect that their finishers are top notch. In the hands of skilled craftsmen is it still an absolute no go for darkly stained birch? Wht about maple? Somebody posted a pic recently of their darkly stained maple cabinets being installed and I am in love, but I guess day of installation is no test of how they will hold up. I'll be sure to bring these things up when I talk to them today. I may be being completely naive, but the guy we are working with seems like a pretty straight shooter.

And if I rule out the custom option completely, and go with the semi-custom option from a national cabinet manufacturer, do the same staining and wood rules apply? Again, I was looking at getting a darkly stained maple. If I absolutely must have cherry to take a dark stain, then I am going to have to change gears completely. Either save money for a few more years or go with a painted cabinet.

Once again, thank you for your help.

That's why I said to get samples. An experienced finisher can get a dark stain on both birch or maple. But you really should be looking at oak if you want a dark stain. It's inexpensive and takes a dark stain beautifully.

Here's quartersawn oak from Kraftmaid in Autumn Blush with Onyx glaze. Quartersawn oak is a bit more expensive than regular oak, maybe about the same as the birch or maple you're looking at depending on the maker.

Here's a darker finish, Kaffe, and one that is available on birch. Se how even with expert finishing, the grain is slightly muddy and blotchy. That's the nature of birch, especially when stained dark.

Here is their darkest offered maple finish in the same doorstyle, Burnished Chestnut. Ignore the "age marks" and see how maple's indistinct graining pattern can also appear to be blotchy even in the hands of an expert. It's not a bad look, unless it's one you just don't like. But, this is typical of maple stained dark.

Here's the same door, but in Kaffe oak. See how well it takes the stain and tones down the grain from the orange oak that people are used to seeing.

Here is Kaffe on cherry, which is the wood to choose for dark finishes if you want a medium grain appearance and minimal blotch.

It may just be my own opinion, but I think the oak is the best looking of the lot and is also the cheapest wood of the bunch.

Don't give up! Have you considered alder? It is known for taking dark stain quite well and it should be in the price range as maple, maybe lower (depending on your location). Alder is a slightly softer wood, but it might be worth consideration. Based on my experience, maple may look good in a dark stain right out of the box, but after years of sunlight, it will start to look blotchy and fade unevenly. I don't know about birch.

Be sure you check the references of your cabinet maker. These people will be the ones that can tell you how the product holds up over time.

Good luck and hang in there!

Well, as luck would have it, the door that I like of those posted above is the first cherry one, which is definitely out of the question for me. I also like the maple burnished chestnut, but wanted to go even darker then that stain. I was shying away from oak because of the heavy graining (my tastes tend to lean slightly towards contemporary), and I admit having a bit of bias due to the oak cabinet heavy kitchens that I have had in the past. I am perfectly fine with my oak floors, but don't want something less "busy" on my cabinets. I'll ask about the alder as an option and do some research, I am not so familiar with that wood.

So, all of those dark maple cabinets that I have been drooling about on Houzz may not hold up over time, huh? This looks so lovely to me.

[contemporary kitchen design[(https://www.houzz.com/photos/contemporary-kitchen-ideas-phbr1-bp~t_709~s_2103) by los angeles design-build Stonebrook Design Build
I flirted a while with the white painted cabinets that seem to be all the rage here, but in the end decided to go back to my true love of darkly toned wood. Maybe we are star crossed loves that were never meant to be though.

You might also ask about alder. It's not as hard as maple or oak but it takes stain well. A friend has alder cabs in kitchen and two bathrooms with a medium dark stain and glaze finish. They are lovely!

Have you seen oak cabinets in a dark stain? It's a sturdy wood, a budget wood as lwo pointed out, and it looks gorgeous in a dark stain, IMO. Check out celticmoon's dark stained oak cabinets in the thread linked below.

Here is a link that might be useful: Show me your painted/stained oak cabinets

I must admit I have not used birch much in my career. I am a huge fan of alder and an ok fan of maple. If the onsite finisher is a pro and uses durable materials then it probably is ok. In my neck of the woods, NC, on site finishing means the painter slaps some paint or stain on it and moves on. Other areas this is the norm and I am sure it can be done in a good manner. I just no that in my shop I have an explosion proof booth with tons of light and 15k worth of spray equipment and another 5k in racks.

Where are you located?

Travis Alfrey
Aberdeen, NC

I talked to my cabinet guy. He did admit that birch can look blotchy, especially when stained dark. Maple a little bit less so. I completely forgot to ask about alder or oak, but will. I looked up some pics and both have a more "rustic" look than I was hoping for. Celticmoon's cabinets are quite lovely though so I probably just need to get over my bias. What we need to do is simply go look at samples that they have at the showroom and compare woods and finishes before making a selection.

I also asked about looking at kitchens that they have done going back several years. They said they had ones from 5 years, 5 months, 5 days, however many we wanted to see. They have been in business for quite a long time so lots of options. They may be snowing me, but I like this group.

Cribbs, I live in the Kansas City area, so if you have a network of folks extending out this far, let me know!

I went to the display store, and now I just feel like I am back to square one. I took into account all of the comments posted here and....

Quarter sewn oak - it just has much more strong grain than I was looking for
Alder - beautiful, but is slightly more rustic than I want. The ones that I saw had lots of knots, which I do realize are part of the beauty of the wood, but I was hoping for a more contemporary look
Birch - I can see that it is "splotchy" when stained dark. They said some of that can be avoided by conditioning the wood, but I am still a bit wary. I guess I could have them make up a sample to see
Maple - they don't do much with maple, the only samples that they had were in a natural stain. Aesthetically, this is the wood that I am most drawn too simply because of its "smooth" appearance, but again, admitted that it sometimes is difficult to stain dark

They had some birch that had a black/brown glaze on them, so maybe I need to consider that. The gal there tried to steer me into the painted white with a dark island as an alternative. Clearly she would fit in well here. I do like the white kitchens, but my husband isn't so keen on the idea.

of course the cherry was lovely and most definitely out of my budget.

I just have no idea what to do.