Here is the upper cabinets

I just want to make one quick small point - on the upper cabinet next to the sink, it would be very helpful if the door were to swing the other way from how you show it (so if take a glass out while standing at the sink without having to walk around the cabinet)

sj, I'll bet the door by the sink swings that way so it doesn't hit the adjacent cabinet. Same with the one on the left end of that run.

I do agree with sj that it would function a lot better the other way. Can you make all the uppers on that side as deep as the middle one?

How does your "pullout above fridge" work? Is it a pull-out tray behind a door? Why the side open instead of front?

Annkh-
You are right about the doors next to the sink and not being able to open them all the way if we mounted them on the other side.

Above the fridge is a pull-out tray behind a door. I was thinking that if I pull out from the side then I can get access to more stuff. My KD is recommending that we put a glass front above the fridge that is ~8" deep to display stuff (I am not sure what and I am not sure if we are going to do it) and then behind the display area would be the cabinet with the pull-out from the side. But I am open to other suggestions.

I wanted to add some 3D features to the kitchen. That is why the middle two doors (in the upper cab on the left of the sink) are bumped out deeper than normal cab.

How much space are you leaving at the end of your cabinet runs? Be sure to think about the width of cover panels and other miscellaneous door clearanaces (especially around the fridge) and gaps at the wall due to non-level/plump walls and whatnot.

For example, the long cabinet run in my kitchen, which includes the fridge, ended up being ~4" longer than I'd expected due to stackup of various things. Thankfully I had space for it though.

If you put doors on the front, that makes sense - if that's what you really want to do.

I had the same idea about accessing the depths above the fridge, and I have pullouts, but they are more like a drawer on its side - one motion to open, rather than open a door (or two) and pull out a shelf. Perfect for storage of cereal, paper towels, napkins, and other lightweight things, and so convenient!

I don't do lay-outs because there are experts here who do, but I would get rid of the peninsula. It seems like wasted counter space being so far from the range. I don't know what you would use it for since you don't need seating with your dining area right there. I'd see if an island can fit since you need prep space by the range. The range feels crowded into that corner. If an island won't work, I'd look at doing a dish storage cabinet at the end of that run instead of a peninsula.

Is that fridge 36" deep? I hope you plan to use a counter depth fridge because of the tightness of that corner.

For the size of your kitchen, you don't need to have the microwave over the stove.

I already brought up the diagonal upper in your other thread.

Any chance to move the doorway on the right closer to the bottom wall? If you can do that, you can move the sink a few inches to the left, have a corner cab and move the range closer to the sink.

I don't have any experience with MW hoods, but keep reading here that they don't vent as good as real hoods.

If you are tall you can consider up lifting doors for the uppers.

Thanks for all the feedback (keep it coming).

annkh - I will have to think about the pull outs from the front...that might look better than having a random door on the side of the cabinets. thanks for sharing your photo.

Sena01/MayFlowers - Unfortunately we can't move any of the walkways. And our appliances are on the newer side, so we will not be replacing them. I really wanted to do an island, but there isn't enough space with our fridge, and going to counter depth isn't an option now.

My plans were to use the peninsula as my prep area. I would store all my mixing bowls/cooking gadgets/measuring devices/etc there. And do all my prep in that area. But it would need to be carried to the stove side of the kitchen. I am now worried that the peninsula is too far from the stove. (we could move the peninsula ~12" closer and remove a cabinet) Any comments?

Thanks again!

FYI - I am short (5'1") so anything in the back of upper cabinets or on the second shelf of an upper cabinet is hard for me to reach :)

Primary prep should be a counter between the prep sink & cooktop. Planning to do primary prep more than a step away from a line between the two is probably the single most egregious kitchen layout mistake you could make.

Maybe you can have a movable island/cart instead of a peninsula. You may consider a folding counter for the cab next to the range, if you don't have a lot of traffic there.

I would reduce the counter space to left of stove to 15-18 inches...and move stove to the left. Also, move fridge over so you gain a 12 or 15 in tall cabinet to the right of fridge...fantastic storage even if narrow because you can have depth of up to 18 or 21 inches or more...shelves and rollouts. Place cabinets under peninsula with some toe room left over at end of peninsula so the stove and a working/landing end of peninsula with curve to the counter are now closer to each other....you'll want that back and forth from those two positions. I would probably omit the small cab to the left of dishwasher..just do a 3 in filler and move peninsula in to the right which tightens up the walking issue around your space.On the wall between sink window and bay window it is too "heavy"...reduce depth of everything...maybe do the diagonal cutback cabinets on the ends....or maybe just one cabinet to left of kitchen window and open shelves the rest of wall. What you have is too bulky and will block the light, IMO.

I think your cooking zone is too isolated. Would you consider this?

Place fridge where you now have peninsula coming out. DW between fridge and sink (take out that 12" cab so things aren't so tight at bay window/table.

A prep sink in the area you now show the fridge would go a long way to improving function. It would be a water source for prepping, but also be a good location for bar service when entertaining. This would give you a fantastic amount of prep space between that sink and the range. Your cooking zone would be fairly protected from all the walkways and you won't have to cross traffic to do things like drain a pot of pasta.

You will need to work a little harder to find a good location for dish storage. (I would keep glasses in the upper next to the fridge) and I would want to move the trash to the end next to the prep sink (you make a lot of trash while prepping, and it is on the way to the clean-up area from dining, so plates can be dumped en route) But, overall, I think with a little tweaking based on what needs stored where, this would work better then the peninsula plan.

I drew up a lay-out without the peninsula. I thought it'd be a starting point and others more knowledgeable can pick it apart if you find it has any merit.

First, the cooking zone. In your other post where you showed only that corner, I thought it was a condo kitchen because it was so tight. I agree with herbfllavor that you should move the stove closer to the doorway. I gave you 18" of landing zone to the left. That allows you a drawer base to the right of the stove of about the same width, which will help with symmetry.

I put a Hafele Le Mans pull-out in the corner, which opens through a door on the fridge run. They also make a pull-out called a Magic Corner. The lazy Susan opening cuts into your drawer base to the right of the stove. You could also block the corner off. I know that horrifies some people, but someone posted the math here and found that perpendicular drawer bases have more storage than a lazy Susan.

The microwave can now go into a cabinet where you can reach it. At 5'1, you can't reach it over the stove. Surprised your KC put it there. Now you can get a real vent hood.

Where you had the peninsula, I put a counter-sitting hutch that you will be able to reach into to store your dishes. You could just do a wall cab there, but I think you'll appreciate being able to reach your dishes. It also eliminates the need to do the funky 3D cabinets, as you call them. It provides the interest in a place that makes sense.

What you mainly lack is counter space. Ideally you'd have a prep island near the stove. Maybe a rolling cart could fit. Do you bake a lot? That's where a deep counter comes in handy. Realistically, I think you'll prep near the sink and window even if you keep the peninsula. A cutting board over the sink will increase your wet prep area.

My one other thought is that a kitchen lasts 25 years and the life span of a fridge these days is 10. I wouldn't design around the fridge, but this lay-out may allow you to add an island in the future. Upon the demise of your fridge, you might be able to replace it with a CD one and put in an island for more prep space.

Two questions...

1) If we were to put in a counter depth fridge, how big of an island could we put in? And where will it go so we can get around the stove and open up the cabinet drawers?

2) What are your thoughts on a counter depth fridge? I know someone who has one and they don't like it since they can't fit everything in it. They end up using a second fridge in the basement and constantly have to go up an downstairs (we do have a second fridge but it is in the basement and we currently only have to use it on holidays when we have lots of family over)
Thanks!

Draw it on your graph paper. I come up with an island approximately 42" L X 30" W with 36" aisles all around. 36" would be the minimum you'd want, but you'll have to make concessions somewhere if you want a large work surface. It won't block the two passageways. There's just a slight barrier between the fridge and sink--not really much to worry about.

There are many threads on CD fridges. I like my Electrolux, but the produce drawers could be a little bigger. For instance, if I stored a bag of oranges or several ears of corn, they'd take up most of one drawer. The deli drawer steals some of that space. I love the deli drawer though since it's set colder than the rest of the fridge. Meat stays fresh longer.

Some people recess their fridge a few inches into a wall. What's on the other side of the fridge wall?

I re-drawed the kitchen layout if we went with a counter depth fridge. Do you think an island would work where I placed it? If I put it 42" from the other cabinets, it will allow me to put a 27" cabinet underneath (30"? counter if I assume 1.5" overhang for counter-top). Is that enough walkway space? (Normally it is just 1 person in the kitchen, but sometimes it is 2) Also is the width of the island too small?

Two other questions if you think an island would work in the design...
How long should I make the island? I drew it out as 60", but should the edge line up with the fridge or the end of the cabinets on the back-wall.

Which way should the drawers go in the island? I was thinking that the drawers should face the fridge since most of my prep will be done on the island and on the counter next to the fridge.

Thanks for your help!!!

Just to clarify, 42" from counter edge to counter edge? If so , I have that and it works just fine even with two people.

I think most people do 42" aisles, so that's good. 36" would have been pushing it. I had the edge lining up with the fridge because of the chairs.

I think you will prep on the side near the sink, so I'd put drawers there. Put the pretty drawers across from the sink and hide the back near the fridge. Maybe you could put your trash cabinet in the island, close to prep and sink. Mine is only 13" wide. I personally would look into making the bottom of the island an open shelf on the DR side to lighten it up in your small kitchen. Or a cookbook shelf.

I'd want another drawer stack to the right of the stove, but that will push the stove closer to the island and give you 18" drawer stacks. Not ideal, but you'll have a good sized drawer next to the fridge for pots and pans and microwaveable dishes. I have an 18" and keep spices in the top drawer, bread and snacks in the middle (love that!), and some small appliances in the bottom. You could keep your oils in one of the deep drawers.

If you don't get much feedback, post again after the holidays. First step though, make sure all your clearances and traffic flow patterns are right.

I just wanted to clarify...42" is from cabinet to cabinet. I think there is normally 1.5" for overhang of the counter-tops. So the distance from counter-top to counter-top would be 39"

May Flower - Where would you end the the island? at the edge of the fridge, at the edge of the cabinets next to the bay window, or somewhere in between?

I like the idea of moving the trash cans to the island...but it would have to be near the table, so if the dishwasher was open, I could also open the trash can. But now it will be far from the sink.

A couple of things to note -

I think an island, even a narrow one, is great and useful. It gives you a half-way spot. Take stuff out of the pantry and fridge and put it on the island, now move to the island and sink for prep. I agree with may, most of your prep will be done on the sink side, so put your drawers for utensils, bowls, etc. there.

Second, counter-depth fridges are not really counter-depth unless they're the "integrated" type (like Sub-Zero). They will stick out, so you won't actually have 42" between island and refrigerator. That said, in our last house, we had only 39" between the edge of the island counter and the edge of the wall counter where the cooktop was, and it was absolutely fine (not generous, but fine).

If you move the fridge to the right wall and range to the bottom one you can have the island across the range (which will be better imo) and keep better aisles.

Hmmmm... I don't favor the idea of 39" aisles. I would make the island smaller and/or change the layout as suggested.

This post was edited by debrak2008 on Fri, Dec 20, 13 at 13:13

Mark it out and see if it works. I lived with the 39" aisle for 7 years and had no problems with it, especially in a kitchen that is mostly a 1-person kitchen.

Sena, with the range at the bottom, she'd have to cross the kitchen with a pot of boiling water to dump it. I always prefer stoves to be close to the sink. I also think this kitchen and island are too small for a prep sink.

Sena, with the range at the bottom, she'd have to cross the kitchen with a pot of boiling water to dump it. I always prefer stoves to be close to the sink. I also think this kitchen and island are too small for a prep sink.

Oh, of course you're right. It seems I misunderstood the comments and assumed a sink on the island.

Sjhockeyfan just posted a photo of her old kitchen. Is this helpful?

That is helpful. Is that her old kitchen? Where can I see her new kitchen. The old kitchen looks nice!

It is my old kitchen (we moved out of that house in December 2012 and then lived in a rental apartment for 10 months. We're now in the middle of renovating our condo -- I hope to have a working kitchen by tomorrow (the cabinets are mostly in, the dishwasher, hood and cooktop are in; I'm hoping for refrigerator, oven and dishwasher today). It's a totally - TOTALLY - different style than our old kitchen. 11' galley kitchen within a large great room in an industrial loft. Nothing traditional about it!).

I think the island would be a barrier b/w the fridge and the range.

How about a peninsula at the bottom wall?I hope I got everything right this time. Measurements include 1 or 1,5 overhang and I assumed a depth of 27" for DW and fridge and 28" for the range.

sjhockeyfan - Do you have any other pictures of your old kitchen that you can share. I think it looks similar to what I am looking to do. And would like to see the rest of your old space.
Thanks!

I do have some pictures (not very many), but I don't know how to post multiple pictures on here. Does anyone know? Otherwise, you can email me by clicking on my screenname and I can email them to you.

sjhockeyfan, where are your photos stored? If on photobucket, while on the photo, click on embed and then copy and paste into the post. You can do as many as you wish.

Mine are on picasaweb - I'll see if they have that option. Thanks.

Here are the pix of my old kitchen.

Here is a link that might be useful: My kitchen pix (old)

Thanks for sharing your photos.

I think we want to go with the island design. I am thinking it will be ~60" so when we come from the foyer direction of the house to the sink we can walk to either direction around the island. I think if we made it longer, we will always walk by the fridge...giving less flow options. Any thoughts?

Also I am uploading a picture showing what i plan on putting in each of the cabinets. I hope you can read it. Let me know what you think.