aries - thank you for the info aries. I need to ask for sure. My money is my money.

snookums-if you see the brand that would be great. I agree - if they are smooth they are smooth and it's really about the name for me. But in this instance the display wasn't great (but I swear they are bearings as well). :( And I am certain the homecrest aren't blum and they are smooth.

If the display "wasn't great", then I would be a little worried. Consider the display as being what your drawers will be like in 3 or 4 years (the amount of time it would probably take you to open/close the drawers in your kitchen the same # of times a display kitchen has had in just a year or two.)

The more you talk about them, the more uneasy I am about the Hettich hardware....

Autumn: If you don't mind me asking. What cabinets/sizes are you putting in your island?

One thing I did was only have soft close (Blum) on the kitchen drawers only. The rest of the drawers in the home were just standard. I figured that those drawers are not as used as much. Some barely ever and we never really noticed after using them that they were not soft close. In the kitchen we would of missed it.

I also did things like shaker drawer fronts in kitchen and slab drawers on the rest of home. That was a savings of almost $3500. I figured the kitchen was worth spending the money on. No one ever noticed the difference not even in our family. Lol

Just some ideas to help so you can perhaps see if there are other areas that you can save on or if the Blum guides are worth the extra money for you.

This post was edited by xc60 on Sun, Dec 8, 13 at 15:45

Here is the layout, island is DW, Sink base, trash pullout and 21" 4 drawer (oops typo above - mistakenly counted it as an 18"):

I just reread through all the posts.You clearly will be more comfortable/happier/satisfied with the Blum upgrade. You've gotten alot of good advice from people in "the know." Reading your posts, you've talked me into the upgrade. Have DH read & he'll be on board.

Like snookums, I didn't even think to question what kind of hardware I was getting. They are full-extension and soft-close and that was the extent of my desires and of my knowledge about hardware for that matter. I'm actually quite happy that I wasn't asked to make a decision about THAT, too.

If it were me and there was any way I could afford it, I would go with the Blum. As I said earlier, it was all that we ever really considered since those were markedly better when we tried them over the others.

It's something that you will use every day. Their upcharge seems a little high, but if the others aren't full extension (and possibly not soft close), that does explain the difference more. To me, full extension was a must. Even "only an inch" underhang is annoying to me. Soft close was a little less of an "absolute" must, but was almost a given for us from the start.

Like I say, if it were me and if there was any way that I could squeeze it out in the budget, I would go with Blum. Every cabinet maker we talked with during our planning process said and agreed that Blum was the standard to which others had to strive to live up to, and most didn't...even if they were "good", in the end, they weren't Blum.

Autumn,
I am no expert here but since you have large drawers I would go with Blum for the large drawers. You will put heavier stuff in them so better to get good hardware on them.

Well, I have buyer's remorse. We put everything I wanted into our kitchen except the undermounted kitchen slides. I had Blum side mounted sides on my original custom made cabinets and never had a problem with them. The cabinet maker (for whatever reason) didn't like the undermounted self-closing slides (and he used Blum) and after everything was broken down and the Blum undermounted slides were $750.00 + my husband decided that that was the one place we were not going to splurge. I decided not to fight about it. I asked about it here -- didn't take everyone's advice and now I live with Blum side mounted slides that do not work like the ones I had on my original cabinets (they would close and we never had an open drawer). The drawers stay open and don't shut very easily and my husband constantly leaves the cabinet doors open. I am constantly following him around shutting cabinet doors. I wish I had just gone with the Blum undermounts and not listened to the cabinet maker. Oh what I would give for self-closing drawers and cabinets.

I have to put self-closing mechanism on our cabinets now because I can't stand the open doors.

All I can say is, just make sure you get self-closing undermount drawer slides.

Autumn: I looked up the three cabinets in the 2012 spec book. They have 2 different trash pullouts. One is attached to the door and the other one is not. The list price for the three cabinets in std wood is $2081 or $2219 depending on what trash pullout. Based on what he was charging you for the blum, I used the same multiplier to come up with he would be charging you for the 3 cabinets which is either 1304.09 or 1390.57. 4% of these amounts is either $52.16 or $55.63. Please remember these are based on the 2012 prices, not sure if the prices went up for 2013.

If you were going with inset, Shiloh requires that you upgrade to Blum.

Hope this helps.

Aries-thank you. What doesn't make any sense to me is that inset is 'free' so why wouldn't Blum be standard on framed construction that is not inset? If you change to inset there is no extra cost and yet you get the Blum hardware?? I did ask and he said that's just how it is. It doesn't seem right to me though.

Brandy-thank you for your experience. :(. That would drive me up a wall too. Both glides are undermount.

I am going to touch base tomorrow and see once what he says about options.

Autumn. Inset is free, but you need to pay to upgrade the drawer slides. Shiloh is a nice cabinet, but has some oddities about it. Like paying for butt doors, hardwood drawer box and blum drawer slides which a lot of cabinet companies include.

I would ask your husband to call in to work that he is coming a little later and you too and both of you test the drawers to be sure. I want full extension drawers if I can get them and soft close and I would cut corners elsewhere. I hate how my current drawers and cabinets (have not yet settled on my new kitchen but I know I want quite doors and drawers) are always slamming. But that is ME. You need to set your own priorities.

For instance when I was looking for a new car, I bought a $299 Garmin in July 2011 and could not see spending the money on the built-in GPS that was $2,100. At first I was upset with myself but the total cost of the car was getting up there and I still have a mortgage to pay off. I did not upgrade the radio but I did pay for the $100 extra for the beeping in the back when I am getting too close to something (as I am very petite and I now never hit anything backing up) and the $100 extra for my heated steering wheel since my hands are always cold. I did not pay for any of the higher paint finishes and I am very happy with my white color.

Thank you everyone. Sent off an email but still feeling very conflicted. It's not that I need premium because I certainly do not - but I do need durability and that is what I question. I was mumble and grumble every time I opened the drawers in my last kitchen and I don't want to do that in a NEW one by my own choosing. How frustrating would that be! Dh says leave it be.... The rental kitchen by the way is so old it doesn't have drawer glides!

There are not a lot of reviews current or otherwise out there on Hettich. :/

So you've brought up DH a few times. I have always felt that unless DH is in the kitchen cooking as frequently as we are, he should let us chose the tools we need. I don't know of many men who don't buy the best quality when it comes to their tools, toys, and hobbies.

I'd downgrade something else to get Blum. The moving parts are the hardest working part of your kitchen. I'd go with a thinner cabinet side, particle board, omit any glazing, do my own glass, do plain cabinet sides instead of decorative, do a less spendy hardware....... there's lots more choices in line behind where choosing Blum would be on the priority list.

Update:emailed KD regarding Hickory wood charge on the island (I know a bit OT) and asked about the glides, if there was any more wiggle in pricing, what options I have to upgrade only some (although I think I'd not like that every time I opened one of the others). He is going to review the order and get back to me likely tomorrow as he is busy with appointments all day today. I think this is one of those instances where I have completely over thought and should have just stuck with them as that is what was important to me to start - good full extension mechanisms. He has not yet submitted the order so I do have the opportunity to change. Who knows, maybe they will knock something off plus the hickory savings (which I think is only about $100).

lynn2006-oh I wish there was time for that! KD is 45 minutes away and DH's works on the house all day on his days off. So...not going to happen. While pulling on the drawers I did try to think what would dh think and honestly I know he'd like the smoother drawer better but not sure better enough for that cost.

may_flowers-very true and I do not dictate tool purchases but he does not by the best of the best in that department either. That said he does buy what he thinks he needs to do the job and do it well for how much use the tool will get. So if it's something we will use over and over for many projects for many years - he spends more. If it's something with little use for a couple minor projects then he spends likewise there. These will get a lot of use - and likely never be replaced! We have always lived on a budget and honestly do not spend more than about $25 bucks without discussing it with each other first.

LWO-thank you for responding- I was hoping a KD would offer some insight. I have tried to skinny up as you mention. My own glass (for less than $100), will not go high end on hardware, glazing is free. I do have beadboard on the back and sides of the island though (and there is seating there). Wonder if I should just skip that?

You will be astounded how expensive V groove paneling is for your island. I'd so a simple veneer, order a couple of fillers, and create your own wainscoting panels for the island.

LWO-thank you for posting back. Is v groove beadboard? Sorry for the ignorance there. They said I couldn't afford integrated panels so I skipped that right away. My island is $2,787 with that layout I posted above (essentially a 33" sink base, 18" trash pullout, 21" 4 drawer stack)....I would need fillers because there is NO WAY I could match the stain with the glaze on my own. We thought about doing what you show above but I just left it with the beadboard thinking that wasn't much (but foolishly I never asked for a dollar value)?

Do you think I can recreate this with fillers as you show above with less cost than beadboard?

Are you going to have stools at the island (where the beadboard would be)? If so, I'd forego it altogether and just get a plain veneer if that will save you money. With the stools, you just won't see much of the back of the island .

Yes - stools and seating....tried searchign for back of island threads yesterday and didn't find much. It is open to the great room but we are casual people.

That's another thing we did was the veneer at the back, then added furniture base (baseboard) for $280 to spruce it up more. With stools there you'll never notice.

Just want to add that I have Blum full-extension soft close glides. DH had very little input on our kitchen but he insisted on them along with soft close doors. There is no way you will regret choosing Blum. A year from now you will forget each individual item cost and will only regret when you didn't go with your gut feeling.

Corgimum-thank you. Dh did ask before the price detail "these are the good guides right"? I think once we saw it we over-analyzed it. So many costly decisions right now.

Xc60-any pics of that you could share?

To judge the difference push down on the drawer gently applying pressure as you close it, simulates a load. I'm with LWO, give up something else. Hettich are used by Shenandoah/American Woodmark, your getting a slightly better cabinet. Blum makes it a real step above where it counts.

Few things in your house get as much use as your kitchen cabinets. It's a splurge place, and I think I'd be willing to pay the extra -- you're talking about $45-ish per drawer, which isn't cheap, but those drawers will last a long time.

In contrast, if you were talking about built-ins by the fireplace or even bathroom cabinets, I'd say skimp. Those doors aren't used as constantly as kitchen cabinets.

Thanks Mrs. Pete. I did go lower 'grade' on those as I totally agree on low usage not necessary. Not doing self close on baths or fp built ins.

Patiently (not) waiting to hear from KD today, tap tap tap.

I am definintely willing to give up beadboard on island for long lasting functioning drawers. All drawers was actually my kitchen splurge...

We'll see what he has come up with.

Shiloh offers their pricing that way, so that people have more pricing options. But I see what you're saying. Maybe they should make the hardwood drawers and blum guides standard.....Then deduct for the plywood drawers or the hettich guides, much like they do with the hickory wood deduct.

I agree with the others....get the Blum and save elsewhere. You could always ask the KD for a discount on the drawer guides only. Tell him you might need to downgrade for budget reasons. See if he'll take $500 for the drawer guide upgrade. If you downgrade, he makes nothing on the guides at all. If he offers the discount, you get what you want for a little bit less and he will still make a few bucks on the guides. Doesn't hurt to ask.

kompy-thanks for weighing in. I was hoping you would since I knew you sell Shiloh so would have first hand experience with both those guides. I will certainly do that. I am waiting for him to double check my island pricing for the Hickory and I also asked what they could do on the Blum pricing. I would jump at that discount. I am going to also ask cost difference to ditch the beadboard and go with a veneered back with a baseboard trim and see what that would save as well. Might as well ask!

Do you sell mostly Blum then for Shiloh?

Autumn, I've only had the line for little over a year now. However, almost every job got the plywood drawer box with the Blum drawer upgrade. Also, so far, every job has been INSET, so you must have the BLUM with that.

What door and finish are you getting?

Shiloh has introduced an entry level product that has a really nice finish! I've never seen a cabinet priced so low with such a beautiful finish. Not all dealers are signed up yet....but maybe you should ask your KD about it....at least for your other rooms (baths and laundry).

Click the link below to read more about it. Also, below is one of their painted door samples I have in my showroom.

Good luck,
KOMPY

Here is a link that might be useful: ASPECT by Shiloh

kompy-I have lancaster door style for the perimeter in soft white and heritage door style for the island hickory with silas stain and black glaze. We went with the eclipse (frameless) in the master (lancaster with sable maple, black glaze). I was looking at aspect for the kids bath and laundry but found something even more economical so went elsewhere for those. They do have nice door styles for the aspect with several stain finishes so it was definitely in the running but very limited wood types. I agree though - very nice value.

Our floors are a distressed hickory with a darker stain.

Ooooh....love that Silas finish. Sounds really pretty!

Kompy: Wasn't Aspect called Sequoia before?

Jakuvall-missed your post, sorry! That was the weird thing, KD said it would slide better with load but Blum didn't need anything to slide better...so that made me skeptical.

Kompy-thank you. :) re inset-that is how we got started down the Shiloh path, but decided to go with full overlay instead.

Kompy, I really like this Aspen Cabinetry Door made by Shilo's manufacturer, W.W. Wood Products, Inc.! Thank you for letting us know.

Aries-yes. KD said name change just this fall.

Edit to say I am not sure what all changed besides name.

This post was edited by Autumn.4 on Tue, Dec 10, 13 at 15:36

Hi Autumn,

I can't show you mine yet as it still a couple months away before our cabinets are installed. I tried to find you a couple pictures of the veneer back with furniture base. Tried houzz but all those kitchens on there are decked out to the max, lol

Here are two I did find though, you might have to zoom in on the first to see detail.

First pic, you can see the veneered back behind the stools, they also have the vertical strips to hide the seems in the veneer. You can also see the furniture base at the bottom.

Second photo, you can see the veneer and furniture base on the side of the island.

XC60, thank you for sharing the pictures. I think both looks nice.

Autumn.4, I can't wait to see your kitchen when you are finished or even a Work-In-Progress picture as it sounds very pretty.

Aries61, thank you for letting me know that the know that the name of the Aspen Cabinetry used to be called Sequoia Cabinetry so I can do some research. I still love the inset but now I am wondering how much less this would be as I like that Aspen door and I do like Frameless Overlay. Their whites look nice also.

xc60-thank you. I think we definitely need to look into that, AND as a bonus it seems like less dusting as well without all of the grooves that bead board has, woot woot. ;)

lynn-it's quite a bit less. I never had it priced for the kitchen but for the boys bathroom it was a couple hundred less - neither were to be full overlay for that room. Thank you. It has taken me a while to finally make a selection, lol! We have a ways before work in progress starts but I'll be sure to post likely in the building a home forum. :) I am sure I'll be over here with more questions as well though.

Autumn, it sounds like you've almost decided to go with Blum (or at least that seems to be the consensus here). I'll add my vote in favor of Blum. One of the joys of my new kitchen (3 months old) is opening and closing drawers. You nailed it when you said they are like butter!

And last week I gained even more appreciation for my new kitchen. Last week I helped my Mom move into an apartment. The galley kitchen isn't really all that bad - a surprising amount of counter space for a smallish apartment - but the cabinets are crap. Mom isn't able to crawl on her hands and knees to dig stuff out of base cabinets, and these have only a half shelf, so half of the base cabinet space is wasted for her (we only put things in the front half of the bottom, so she could reach). She now understands my obsession with drawers!

Drawers are not really a splurge, because they provide significant function and benefit for that money. I think the same goes for Blum hardware - the cost is more, of course, but the benefit is significant. You've gotten great suggestions for cutting costs on cosmetic things - spend it on function over form.

Annkh, another way to help your mom is to purchase wooden shoe racks from Lowe's. They look like shelves. With them, you can put 2 layers of "stuff" up front, doubling the items she can easily retrieve. I did that at the back of the cabinets or on the sides of the cabinet before I replaced them with drawers. Works like a charm!

Thanks for the tip, beachlily! I'll pick some up before I see her again. There are definitely a couple of cabinets where that would be useful for smaller items (luckily most of the lowers have larger things in them).

annkh-I am convinced that it's a function that will be worth while, especially since I have all drawers. If they 'crap out 'early - what a waste! I am still waiting to hear from KD on costs for changing out bead board. I think I will call him today. I am glad this thread produced a tip that can help your Mom. :)

Follow up - resolution.

Per KD the bead board wasn't costly enough to even make a dent - he said for the Shiloh line to do a plain veneer of that size with filler would be more expensive. The bead board can be easily seamed at the groove so easier install also.

The corbels however were where he thought we could cut cost and possibly find something elsewhere or through our granite fabricator. A quick call to the fabricator and certainly - much more cost effective! In their view I could easily drop one of the corbels on the short side but will would need 3 supports across the front where the 9' span is. We have a wall built out from the cabs to shorten the overhang (4' deep island) so they can easily mount support braces there. Yay!!

So dropping the corbels (which I didn't have strong feelings toward either way, totally was a decision of function not aesthetics for me) was an easy concession.

I ended up within $1.41 of my original invoice dropping the corbels and adding the Blum - there was a ~$110.00 adjustment in my favor for the Hickory as well. I couldn't believe it.

The supports for the counter top from my fabricator will be much less than the $650ish cost from the cabinet mfg and I won't have to worry about stool and leg banging. Not sure you'd see them much with the stools there anyhow.

Thank you to all that contributed for and against the upgrade. I am feeling much better and appreciate all of your comments helping me along my way!

Autumn, that's so awesome, it's going to be a gorgeous kitchen! Yay!

Great news! I was hoping you'd find a way to get the Blum & stay in budget.

That is awesome news! Now you can rest easy and not worry about your drawers down the road.

Autumn, Glad everything worked out. Do you think that the kd would have said anything about hickory being less if you didn't bring it up?

Thank you xc60, romy and snookums. I feel a sense of relief so I know I made the right decision for us.

Aries-The hickory switch came out of nowhere so I think it was an honest oversight but no I don't think he would have realized it or went back and reviewed if I hadn't said anything. Unless he caught it when he was entering the order perhaps then maybe. That said - my original quote from the fall said Island - "any wood species in any stain" but at that time we were only talking alder or maple, hickory was never in the mix. I knew cherry is always an upcharge but I didn't know about hickory. I just liked the sample better with it. So I need to THANK YOU for being an accounting wiz and in the know on Shiloh!

Moving on to lighting and counter tops now. More choices but I don't anticipate them being more challenging (at least not the lighting anyhow-keeping it simple)!

This post was edited by Autumn.4 on Fri, Dec 13, 13 at 5:26