Crikey. No pictures. It's 3 a.m., but I'll keep trying to post them!!

http://s1081.photobucket.com/albums/j349/lisapoi/

I hope my supreme awkwardness with trying to post pictures doesn't prevent some folks from viewing them and offering their thoughts!
If anyone can help me further with the posting, I'd appreciate it. In the first box asking for the URL, I have been trying to type in but nothing shows up. What am I doing wrong??
Okay . . . the text that shows up as a link in the previous line is actually a link to my pictures!!

Which pictures do you want to post here? You need to copy the "HTML Code" for each picture you wish to post and paste the code in the "Message" box.

I was going to post them for you, but they're rather large. Could you resize them to no more than 400 pixels in either direction? (Resize using %-ages.) It can be done in Photobucket (under "Edit").

Here is the proposed layout.

One piece of advice is to get over the psychological hurdle that 11 x 11 is "really small".

I copied your picture first and now I can't go back and carefully read the initial wishlist, but at first glance, I would have to say that the island doesn't make sense for this layout. I will have to go back and read the initial post again.

I understand what you are trying to accomplish with the island, but right now you would not really even have good access to wash the slider, to clean the floor, or to pick something up that fell.

Try a 24" inland (26"-27" with top) in the same position. It is still unconventional but at least gives you 36" between it and the slider. It still may not work.

Barring that, try a full height deep tall cabinet as a column between the two sliders.

Right now, your back is to the view anyway, so...If you are really committed to trying to float something in this plan, I would consider going all out, having a full range wall on the wall where you have it now, having a sink and DW island facing out the window, and getting a Subzero or other true counterdepth (24"d) built in fridge and burying it over where the sink and DW are now with a bunch of other storage.. (and it still may not work)

Thanks to everyone who has responded, and especially to buehl who has tried to help me with the photos. I deleted the old photos, resized them and uploaded to a new album, which was probably a mistake as now the old link is broken. I've been having problems even posting this new post! So so sorry for the awkwardness.

http://s1081.photobucket.com/home/lisapoi/index

Oh my. I continue to struggle with posting. I just wanted to thank you all for your suggestions and advice. I really appreciate the time you are taking and the patience you have with me and my photos.
Palimpsest, thanks for pointing out about cleaning the floor and the window itself. I hadn't even given those things a thought. I guess I was desperate to have more counter space.
I guess it won't make much difference that besides the 25" of floor space between the island and the window, there is another 5" before your shoulder would hit the glass because the slider is inset.
I do have other questions too . . .
Do you think it advisable to remove the wall between the kitchen and DR?
We also need to redo the flooring in the front hall, kitchen, and back hall. Currently it is sheet vinyl, which I don't mind.
The LR and DR have medium brown hardwood, same vintage as the house, 1965, and we were told that we could not match it because of the thickness of the old hardwood (today's hardwood is thicker). We're in Ontario, Canada and that's what one flooring store told us. We are considering replacing the kitchen, DR and LR with pre-finished hardwood, with Duraceramic tiles in the front hallway, through to the back hallway and into the bathroom. Or, we might do the Duraceramic into the kitchen too, but I think I'd like the uniformity of having the kitchen in the same material as the DR (hardwood). Do any of you have any thoughts on this?
If we did do hardwood into the kitchen, where would/ how would you end it? Perpendicular to a wall? On an angle? Not sure what to do here.
Thanks again, all!

Just wanted to second what palimpsest said. If you can move the plumbing for the sink and DW, I think her plan is much better.

When you hover over the thumbnails of your pics in photobucket, a menu will pop up that says "share/copy".
Copy the one that is in the HTML code row, and you can paste it right in this box.

Alternately if you click on the picture to look at it full sized, there is a box off to the right that says "Share this Photo" . Again, copy the HTML one, and you can paste it right in this box.

I was able to get flooring in the same thinness as the 1965 flooring in my place, however it is plain oak strip flooring which was so common around here that there is probably quite a market for it. This is not tongue and groove or prefinished which is much thicker today.

Question? Do you also have sliders in the dining room to the yard? In your plan it looks like you do. If so, how about closing off the sliders from the kitchen and using that wall for cabs and appliances? That will help make an island or peninsula workable then. You'd still be getting the view since you'd be opening up the kitchen to the DR.

Here's what palimpsest is describing re: posting pics:
{{gwi:1482946}}

re: the sliders: that is a gorgeous wall of glass. I wouldn't rule out a cabinet there, though; my thought is that you'd see the view less with an island in the middle of the kitchen and have a better view with 1/2 of that glass being a counter level window with a sink in front. You'd have an awesome view from the sink, and anyone in the kitchen could get closer to the view more comfortably than in a tight aisle.

re: the wall and floor: I think it's a good idea to open up the wall between DR and kitchen, and I'd do a hardwood floor through both the rooms. I'd end it between the two walls as shown below left with the orange line; or if you want to open up the hallway a bit and get some light flowing between the kitchen and front hall, then you could do an angle like the mockup on the right.

{{!gwi}}

cpartist, we do have another 8' slider in the DR. I have considered removing the slider in the kitchen (very reluctantly, though, because I love the light and feeling of opening onto the outdoors).
I have to admit, though, that I haven't really fleshed it out as thoroughly as I have the plan that I posted. But when I have done a rough outline, it seemed to me that I did not get as much counter space and storage as with the option I posted. (Maybe because I want the window to be as large as possible, and there is a bulkhead (covering ductwork) running across in front of the slider.
I'm not sure how feasible it will be to put the sink and DW in the island as there is ductwork in the basement directly under where we would have to put the plumbing. How easy is that to move?

I've measured a million times. I think this time the numbers add up . . . mostly:)

Thank you buehl, and chicagoans and palimpsest for all the help with uploading the images. I think I FINALLY got it!

With regards to "The LR and DR have medium brown hardwood, same vintage as the house, 1965, and we were told that we could not match it because of the thickness of the old hardwood (today's hardwood is thicker). We're in Ontario, Canada and that's what one flooring store told us."

You can get flooring at a lumber mill, custom run to match your existing floor.

We thought we had standard flooring, 3 1/4" red oak. But when we took a sample to stores to match, we found the tongue & grove was different.

So we had a lumbermill purchase a blade/bit to exactly match our existing tongue & grove and ran all the flooring we needed. At installation we didn't think it would match (we comingled old and new boards, we had 50% new and 50% old.). After sanding & sealing, you cannot tell old from new.
It was expensive (we paid about $6 or $7 a square foot vs under $3 from stores, but it was a perfect match), but better than the alternative (replace all wood, or change our flooring design)

I'm not one of the more experienced people on here & have been just lurking for a long time so please excuse my ignorance.
-Are you against moving sink/stove around? That closet (next to the bthrm) provides the perfect opportunity to inset your fridge, and I wouldn't want to look at a fridge from the outside anyway. If there are kids, that provides less interference from them when they're outside too.

-If you move the fridge to the sink wall, can you put the sink in the island? Or perhaps stove in the island and sink where it is now? It would be nice to look out the backyard, I imagine.

-I don't believe you said whether there is already a slider in the dining rm. If so, you could have a beautiful, large window in the kitchen (instead of the slider). You could even move the kitchen slider to the lvg rm, but perhaps that's more than you want to do.

-You can buy floor borders to distinguish between 2 different types of flooring.

I imagine there could be problems with the sink/oven walkway. 48" is a lot of space though.
{{!gwi}}

If you stick with your current design, I would recommend you move the island closer to the stove wall. 48" is A LOT of space, and even if it is in "the rules" I've seen many functional kitchens with 40 or less.

Here is a link that might be useful: kitchen design on flickr - guess they don't allow embedding

This is part of what's done by flickr when you ask for html

Here is a link that might be useful: flickr faq on how to get html for their images

Not sure whether you'd consider this crazy idea, but perhaps you may want to consider tearing down the wall (as long as it's not load bearing & you're ok with that decision) between the dining rm and kitchen now & moving that old table in front of the current kitchen sliding glass door.
If you decide that you must have 2 sliding glass doors after living with it for a month or so, then so be it.

Is it feasible? Can you mimic the exterior siding/brick of your home?

An island simply does not work in this kitchen. Creating some form of a peninsula would work far better and give greater counter space. So, explore that.

IF you open the kitchen up to the dining room, you won't need to have the sliding door in the kitchen, because the wall won't be there and you'll have easy access to the DR one for in and out. I understand the objection to losing the amount of light it provides, but there are alternatives that can keep the "open to the outside" feeling that you love so much. What about replacing the kitchen sliding door with a counter height window and putting the sink in front of that? You could then do a peninsula out from that wall separating the DR and kitchen and have some stools under it. That would leave the whole rear wall for a nice range focal point area. Or, put the range on the exterior wall for easier venting and flank it with two counter height windows and do the peninsula, maybe with a prep sink in it. That would give you a greater protected area for cooking and prep zone, and your cleanup zone could be where you show your range.

Of course, this is only possible if you have easy access to your plumbing from below, like a basement. If so, then it's not terribly expensive to move some things around. The bigger expense would be replacing the door with the window(s).

I am pretty spatially challenged, but I did just wrestle an 11 ft x 11 ft kitchen into something like submission, so I will weigh in here with a few ideas.

First, what will dwarf everything else is your fridge. If you could install it so that only the front -- rather than the side as well -- shows from most vantage points, it won't loom as large.

So, if you are willing to invest in replacing your windows and moving some plumbing, some variant on this might work:
{{!gwi}}

The lower cabinets next to the fridge are pulled out to match its depth. The windows above the sink and DW would be any array similar to those of laurainlincoln (with higher windowsills) or jenwrens (sills to the counter), both of which yield an enviably large area of glass.

(Please note that I am pretty vague about the entrance to the kitchen from your 48" hallway. You obviously need a certain entryway width, but it could be achieved in several ways by messing with the fridge wall and the end of the range set of cabinets.)

Looking from the DR, people would see the peninsula and either the end of the cabinets flanking the range or, if you prefer, a counterdepth wall.

I too took down the wall between my modest kitchen and the DR. My kitchen is very different (yes, I would sell my soul for a lovely run of windows) but from the DR it does show the peninsula and the end of a run of cabinets, with no wall. Your peninsula would be longer and better looking; mine is truncated by a boxed-in chimney and shelves that were added to it to the depth of the countertop.

Hope this stimulates the germ of an idea. Cheers.

Here is a link that might be useful: laurainlincoln's windows to die for

I agree with live wire oak, your kitchen is too small for an island. My kitchen and dining room were slightly smaller than yours. I opened up the wall between them put in a peninsula and it made a huge difference for both rooms.

My kitchen/dining room almost finished

I really appreciate all your comments and suggestions. It is forcing me to really rethink this plan. It's hard to wrap my head around different ideas when I've hung on to this one for such a long time (and hung on to the idea of keeping the slider in the kitchen), but I really needed to hear unbiased perspectives. Now I'm working on versions of the penninsula plan-- without the slider.
I can see that this version does give me more counter space and significantly more lower cabinet space, in spite of there being two big hard to access corners (but I guess two lazy susan's would work there).
I can hardly believe that the kitchens you folks have been posting are smaller or the same size as mine. I think I have a really hard time visualizing my kitchen in different configurations, without walls, and without the slider.
I was so indecisive earlier that I'd been considering consulting a local kitchen designer, just to get that unbiased opinion and clear viewpoint.

lisa, I don't know if you can see it in my photo above, but a wonderful idea that I got from this site was to take the corner cabinet on the dining room side and have the cabinet turned and accessed from dining room side. The other cabinet that makes up the peninsula is facing the kitchen.

It wouldn't hurt to talk to a KD to get a sense of what all your options might be and what trade-offs (functional, aesthetic, and financial) are entailed with each. Meanwhile, you have started plenty early enough in your planning to have an idea of what you want to do when the time comes.

Before the wall between my DR and kitchen came down, all I had were a garageful of used cabinets from craigslist, a bunch of sketches that weren't working, a frantic determination to somehow hide the huge fridge, and this.

As soon as the wall came down, possibilities started to suggest themselves.

So, lisapoi, I commend you on your early planning start and assure you that after you try fifteen configurations that don't work at all, you will have your eureka moment when you sort out what will work pretty well.

Best of luck.

I was the first person to say that I didn't think this space was amenable to an island, but after hearing your reasons for wanting to do so, I think you could continue to play with the idea.

Why? because you really aren't designing an island kitchen, you are designing a galley kitchen where one run of cabinets isn't attached to the wall.

You *could* get rid of the slider and replace it with two counterheight windows and a door, and place that cabinet run right against the wall you have created. However, that places the parallel runs of counter almost 7 feet apart, and the argument I often hear in this forum is that *5 feet is too far apart for parallel runs of counters.

I am not saying that this will be your ultimate plan and you may end up with something conventional. I don't think the First iteration of this plan with island thats not really one was feasible, but I *do think a plan of parallel counters where one is not attached because of the sliders could work with the right layout. This may be one situation to think outside the box and still come up with something that works. Bmore started this process by drawing up some of the switches I suggested. The island would have to be narrower and the fridge would have to be very specific, but you could end up with an interesting galley layout. *Don't drop it yet just because it is not supposed to work.

Yes, take out the wall if possible. Also, with the wall out the large patio door in dining room is now visible to kitchen. Then make a wall of windows down to counter height above a run of cupboards along the outside wall.

Angle the entry to the kitchen as chicagoans suggested. It may sound like a lot of space between the counters as palimpsest mentioned, but also take into consideration that the refrig does extend beyond the depth of the cupboard as drawn, taking up part of that space. You might want to consider moving the refrig or making the counters deep enough to come out to the depth of the refrig.

Look at some of the finished kitchens that have a wall of windows above the counter and I think you will be surprised how light and airy they seem.

I think that by trying to put in an island type run of cupboards, you would be restricting the walk/flow of the kitchen. It would also make it difficult to have more than one cook/helper in the kitchen at a time. Just not enough room?

I did a search here at GW and came up with several posts about counter height windows with pictures.

Here is a link that might be useful: one post about counter height windows

palimpsest, thanks for your suggestions. I never really thought of it as a galley kitchen without attaching one bank to a wall, but that is exactly what it is. I'm still continuing to think through this island thing.

I have also tried to rethink the project in other directions, and seeing some of those other kitchens with counter height windows helps a lot.
Those windows (thanks, mary lu), really make a visual impact in the kitchen, and it helps me see that a window might not be so bad after all.

I guess the upshot of it all is, I also took your advice an called a KD in my local area. Actually, I was so confused/ conflicted (not to mention up til 4:30 am with this the night before) that I picked up the phone and called before I even read the suggestion--but it sure was a good idea. I had a good chat with the lady, she seemed extremely helpful, and she'll come to take measurements, etc. in Jan.--no obligation unless we want to purchase her plans or have her contract out the work.