I know, I know, that's why I harp so endlessly here about woodstove safety and clearances when someone is proposing one.

You can never, ever, forget that woodstoves (and fireplaces, too) are just places where you got live fire penned up in a metal box. Given any encouragement at all it will consume your home and kill you.

L.

This is right near my home and it is just heart wrenching on so many levels.

It appears the embers were put in a bag & left near mudroom or garage - I just can't understand that part. "Fire marshalls have now revealed that one of the house's occupants, contractor Michael Borcino, who is now being described as Badger's boyfriend, put still-live embers from the fireplace into a bag around 3 a.m. and placed it in either the house's mud room, or against its exterior wall reports the New York Times. "

The house was under renovations by Mr. Borcino, had no working smoke detectors, the plans, revealed by the building dept, had them in the plans, but they were not installed. It is unknown if there was a Certificate of Occupancy for the 2nd & 3rd floors.

The irony, is that Ms. Badgers father, Lomer Johnson - who perished in the fire - was a safety officer for years, before retiring and growing his beard to be a Santa, at the request of his granddaughter.

Reports noted that Mr. Borcino had 2 of Ms. Badgers 3 girls and that they "panicked" and they became separated.

The Daily News had this report yesterday "But time won�t turn down the volume on Badger�s visceral cries, now carried each day by Stamford�s firefighters along with their helmets and boots.

"The one thing they can�t get out of their minds is her screaming," said Assistant Fire Chief Peter Brown. "That voice will stay with them for as long as they live."

The Stamford fire dept is having a very difficult time dealing with all that they witnessed that morning. The Chief, a 38 yr veteran just wells up in tears trying to give report.

The girls father, Michael Badger was driven by police from Manhattan the day of the fire. It's just too hard to imagine.

There was silence as the firefighters removed the bodies from the 2nd & 3rd floor of the home.

the home was built in 1895 & likely a tinder box - Incredible that it had to be razed the following day...

It's just all so unimaginable - but yes to the OP - Fire is something that one must take seriously

My thoughts and prayers go out to this family -

We always, ALWAYS put ashes from the wood stove into a metal bucket & took the bucket OUTSIDE when we cleaned the stove. We heated with wood exclusively when I was a kid, I can't imagine putting ashes from a stove into a bag of any kind. It just makes no sense.

Such an awful fire, it reminds me to put ladders in all our second floor windows if/when we remodel the second floor bedrooms.

This is a very, very upsetting story. Losing one's parents and children all in one day is just so terrible and unimaginable. To a lesser extent not to mention one's home and all material possessions as well even your purse and identity to get anything done such as hospital and making arrangements. Then must face accusations and associations. I hope she has other family to help and comfort her at this sad and difficult time.

Were the children's and guest rooms in a different location/floor in the house? It's hard to believe anyone could survive that and it is surprising that they already razed it. Wouldn't the insurance company have to approve that first? How can they be sure it was the embers that started it if it was razed the following day? I mean it's the obvious reason of course but what if it was totally unrelated? Perhaps it was easy to tell.

Thank you, farmhousegirl. My DH is so careful about everything, and I sometimes get irritated with him, but this is one place we all need to be mindful of safety.

He put ashes _in a bag_?

This is why you don't do "short cuts" it's too easy to forget.

There are times I've thought - "I'll just scoop these into a bag and take them out" but I know that it's too easy for something to happen, and I'll set the bag down and forget (Like stepping in a pile of cat puke on the way to the door).

Especially at holiday times, things get so hectic and it's so easy to think you did something, only to find out later you didn't do what you meant to do. I doubt this was diliberate, and he probably meant to get the embers out of the house, but for some reason it didn't get done. I would bet he knew not to put them in a bag, but since he was going to get them right out into a safe place, it would be OK.

We have a burn barrel outside, so the hot ashes go into that. It wouldn't matter if we put them in a bag to get them out there, as we put paper to burn in the barrel all the time. BUT doing that and forgeting to get them to the burn barrel is too horrible to think about, so we use the metal ash bucket no matter what.

Such a tragedy.

I'm compulsive about checking our smoke detectors every six months. I think fire extinguisher safety is important too. ONLY use the extinguisher if you can position yourself between the fire and an exit, and DON'T rely on your firefighting skills just because you have an extinguisher. Personally I'm more inclined to call 911 and let them deal with it (then again, our firehouse is a block and a half away, so they should be here fast). The one time we had a minor fire in a ceiling fixture, I was out the door and on my cell phone to 911 before I even remembered we owned an extinguisher.

I remember having a fire marshal in Philadelphia pause in a conversation and ask earnestly:

fire marshal : PL, you don't have any wood paneling in your home, do you?

Me: Um, no fire marshal, sir - why do you ask.

fire marshal: that stuff is like solid, rocket fuel your house would go up in seconds.

So now, when ever I walk into a house with the stuff I always wonder if I should say something.

I feel terrible for the family. It seems like the embers would have been safer in the firebox/stove rather than a paper bag leaned up against the house.

As one who rarely has a fire in the fireplace, why would you take hot embers out at night, and not cold ones in the morning? I must be missing something.

People, all people, do idiotic things sometimes. There but for Grace . . .

I just checked my alarm. And called ADT to install heat sensor in the attic and basement since our house is a rowhome and a fire could start in a neighbor's home/attic.

Hearing of what happened to that family is sickening. My heart goes out to them.

I don't think the subject is OT... it's very much OT here.

"embers were put in a bag & left near mudroom or garage"

can't wrap my brain around that... rather than an ulterior motive, I think maybe some drinking / celebrating? on top of being over tired with remodeling and holiday activities?

the whole story is hard to wrap one's brain around.

I forget very easily - like at the drop of a hat. I don't allow open flames here. won't light a candle or have a fireplace w/flame or a gas stove etc.

I saw (on tv I think) in the past few days a spray fire extinguisher that works for either kind of fire - no pins to pull either. In time of need I wouldn't know how to work one of the regular type extinguishers... gonna check into that.

prayers for the mom and her friend.

It is not always noticeable when ashes/cinders are removed to see that they are still 'hot'. I remember in NJ around 10 years or so ago, the owner of a brand new large home emptied ashes into a box and stored them on the stair of the wooden staircase temporarily. The house went up in flames and was a total loss. Luckily no one was home. My prayers go out to the Badger family at this time with this awful loss of life. The chances are that this gentleman was intending to move the ashes on to a safe container/area but simply forgot?

With my Kitchen Reno that has been going on for some time, I had many workers who told me that I did not need permits to re do my kitchen. I am glad that I did pull permits for all my work as a week before the work was to commence (December 12th) I had a fire at my house. A worker drilled through the mains electric causing an electrical fire right in the kitchen area. The first responders were at the house within 2 minutes of calling 911, and they had to cut out a portion of the siding out to contain the fire. Luckily the worker and myself were not hurt. But who should show up at the house with the many fire trucks and firefighters was the Code Enforcement officer who issued me my permits. He is, as it happens also the fire marshall in our town.

After reading about the CT fire, what happened is truly haunting. My heart goes out to the family and what they are going through.

It's possible they didn't have smoke detectors due to the renovation. Never sleep in a house without one. There are smoke detectors designed to hang over a door as a temporary measure. We used them when we were renovating a house a couple of years ago.

They may have cleaned out the fireplace the night before so it would be ready for Christmas morning. Even cold embers are not safe and there are all types of buckets and built-in cleanouts to safely handle embers.

The city can declare any building an exceptional safety hazard and remove it immediately even without insurance company involvement.

They did have permits for the renovations, but the city is checking on whether the house was legally occupied due to the extent of renovations. The permits and inspections you are required to get for your renovations are serious business and protect you, your family, and your neighbors.

See link below for details.

For best protection, it is recommended both (ionization and photoelectric) technologies be in homes. In addition to individual ionization and photoelectric alarms, combination alarms that include both technologies in a single device are available. The web link below has a great video.

Ionization smoke detection is generally more responsive to flaming fires.How they work: Ionization-type smoke alarms have a small amount of radioactive material between two electrically charged plates, which ionizes the air and causes current to flow between the plates. When smoke enters the chamber, it disrupts the flow of ions, thus reducing the flow of current and activating the alarm.

Photoelectric smoke detection is generally more responsive to fires that begin with a long period of smoldering (called "smoldering fires").How they work: Photoelectric-type alarms aim a light source into a sensing chamber at an angle away from the sensor. Smoke enters the chamber, reflecting light onto the light sensor; triggering the alarm.

Have a plan for a fire. Fire can spread rapidly through your home, leaving you as little as two minutes to escape safely once the alarm sounds. Your ability to get out depends on advance warning from smoke alarms, and advance planning � a home fire escape plan that everyone in your family is familiar with and has practiced.

If you are building a new home install automatic fire sprinklers. EVEN if the local code does not require it. About $1.50 per s. ft. if you have a public water supply.

Here is a link that might be useful: NFPA

This is such a tragedy. I wonder if the boyfriend will be charged with negligent homicide. That poor family! Those poor kids!

Reading this thread scared me, and as a result my husband installed an excellent smoke alarm right outside our bedroom. I know several people on this thread just updated their alarms, so maybe this thread will save someone's life. We put in a Kidde Nighthawk alarm that has both kinds of fire/smoke detection and also a carbon monoxide detector. When it goes off, a voice says why ("Fire! Fire!" or "Carbon monoxide!"). Hopefully we'll never need it, but I sleep better knowing it's there.

My town requires that hard wired smoke detectors are added during renovations, and in addition I chose to keep one of my battery powered detectors that has an escape light mounted at the top of the stairs. A month ago, we replaced all the batteries in the smoke detectors (6) and CO2 detectors (2). Seeing the dates on the batteries, I was shocked how lax I had become over the years with the hard wired detectors, only changing them when they beeped.

I don't think they will charge the boyfriend. I think living with that memory will be worse than anything they could charge him with. My heart goes out to that family.