You want to move the door over a few inches to align with the cabinet depth? If so, don't. It will look funky. Also, don't forget to leave icnes for the door casing (trim / moulding).

30" deep counters at the sink and baking area? If you don't have upper cabinets over the baking area, then I don't think you need to do that. Also, it looks like you have a bout 4 feet of space in the kitchen between the two sides, that is pretty narrow - don't make it worse by overdoing the counters.

Of course make the baking counter deeper. That's called making lemonade out of lemons! :-) --Especially since that counter is set back from the sink run, anyway. I would probably pull the pantry out to match instead of jogging it back. I'm assuming you don't plan to make it 30" deep, too, because of just having shelves in there instead of pullouts?

Also, it's OK to have one set of deep counters when your cooking ones aren't. In my kitchen, my cooking counters are the only ones I could make deep, and the rest are standard. It's definitely the baking area where I could use deeper.

You could do any of those size combos to the right of the sink. I think I'd shift the 12" to the left side of the DW (shifting sink and dw to right) and it'd be good little drawers for dish towels, hot pads, plastic wrap, etc. central and convenient to fridge, oven, sink, and stove. Or do the same with a 15" and a 27".

I will have uppers over the baking counter. The balance of the run will overlook the sunroom with an overhang. There is no door over on the left now. What exists is an old laundry room that I'm incorporating into the kitchen. There is a window starting 39" down on the wall. I had orginally hoped to create a doorway on that wall that will go into a new laundry room. I had wanted to over so I could lengthen the wall on the other side having a bigger pantry next to the frig. But... if it is going to create alot of headache for our DIY; I"m trying to work around it.

The depth of the walkway in the kitchen is purposeful. I'd have a 4'walkway with the 30" deep counters as the plan is to create a horizontal galley. I hope that makes sense.

Can anyone give some input on how I can utilize a 12" space next to the frig.
I forgot to mention that I'm OK with losing all the extra pantry space I thought I had because there is a great closet right as you step in the music room that'll make a great pantry closet.

Does the above layout represent what your DH wants? The problem I see in the above is the Refrigerator...you probably won't be able to run it right up to the door like that, you need room for the trim as DIY-Grant mentioned. I'd move it down 6" into that 12" space b/w the wall & the current Ref....but it will be a narrow aisle b/w the Ref & the cabinets across. (I have approx 31", though, and it works OK...not ideal, but OK. No one can pass while I'm in front of the freezer drawer, but it's not open that long.) [Are you sure you can't move the electrical panel???]

I think 30" deep counters for the Baking Center/sink side would be very useful...definitely for the Baking Center...my 24" counters are still a tad shallow for rolling out dough...I think 30" would be perfect! It's always nice to have extra room around a sink and especially if you have seating behind it...more room b/w the visitors & splashing water! I also think 48" aisles are plenty, any wider and the range & sink will be too far apart.

Is there a reason you have 18" & 15" cabinets instead of a 33" cabinet next to the range?

oops! Didn't refresh b/f posting! I think you'll need that 12" for 6" b/w wall & Ref (6" broom closet courtesy of IKEAFans?) and 6" b/w Ref & door.

AH.... so simple yet brilliant rhome. Simply pull the pantry out too! How much length does one need to create one of those step in pantrys? I much much prefer shelves but since I'll have that lovely pantry closet in the other room built like the wonderful ones with 12" and 15" deep shelves like on recent threads I'd consider one 24" with pullouts unless you or someone else can think of something better for that space.

Hi buehl! I'm basing this basic layout on IKEA cabs as that is one of the options I"m exploring. I'll be getting 3-4 different prices to compare. If the difference between IKEA and another option is maybe 2K or so and the other option offers much more flexibility AND we prefer a door style... then we'll consider. But we want a basic Shaker with wide rails and stiles. The IKEA Adel door would work and I like the new beech color. So that just might work out. No problem moving the frig down. Would getting a french door adequately address the clearance issue? Great idea on the 6" broom closet... thanks. I'll be hitting up IKEAfans if when we get closer and if we go that route.

That's what we have and while it's not ideal (I had planned for 42" aisle), it works OK. [I just remeasured, we have 32-3/4" b/w ref handles & peninsula counter, 34-3/4" not counting handles.]

Hmmm....but, what refrigerator will you be getting? My so-called cabinet depth is actually 31" or so with the handles + inch of space behind for plug, etc. (7" more than 24"!)

Built-ins, I think, are really only 24" deep. Since you only appear to have 36" between the 24" depth you show for the refrigerator, you may have to go the built-in route or (wince) find a different place for the refrigerator (or move the electrical box!) [36" - 7" = 29"]

BTW...is that aisle really 36"? You show the 15" cab but no wall for the electrical box...does that mean the aisle is really only 32" (36" - 4" for wall)?

Wait! You said there will be a Laundry Room behind that wall...could you recess the refrigerator into the Laundry Room? Then, I would try for a 42" aisle if at all possible!

Let's see... that room is 5' wide (I orginally thought it was 6'. ) That wall where the cirucit box is is 2' width plus casing from the door. The frig is moved over 1' from the wall so the frig is compromised by 1'. Ya' see... this is why I wanted the dooway moved over some. Maybe we can put an extra wide doorway in? Not have to close up what's existing but make a 4' opening? That way it's not twice the work just will have to take out a bit more concrete then just under the window to create a doorway. I don't care about the door into the laundry room... we can put up bi-fold doors. By doing this the frig would face open into the kitchen and not be blocked by anything. I think I'd prefer that to take space from a not overly large laundry area and he'd have to take out less concrete wall (1' or so as oppose to 3' for the frig width)
Whaddaya think?

I don't think you can do a 30" aisle in front of the ref. Ref doors are big and lots of refs need 50+ inches from the wall to open the doors. Plus counter depth refs are frequently 27 to 30" deep when closed.

The 15+18 cabinets go back to a 24"?

I'm not sure where your electrical panel is now but I do want to mention something so it doesn't come as a rude & expensive surprise later down the road. There are minimum clearance requirements for the breaker box--in front of, to the side or & height wise. The req'ments are 30'' of clear wall space, 36 inches clear floor space in front of the panel and at least 78'' height.

What with adding new toys in the kitchen (possibly needing to upgrade service/ panel) & the clearance issue (moving the panel), probably the best first thing to do would be to get an electrician out to look things over & advise.

It's not anything to lose sleep over but I wanted to mention it so that a smallish problem doesn't turn into a big show-stopper problem later on.

HI bmore and ci lantro...
The circuit panel is on the back on the wall, in the old laundry room that backs onto the cooking run. Actually there is a frig, 21 " cab, and pantry closet there now. The wall in there is only 2' wide plus the door casing. I don't know if the code/regulations are different down here or since the he home was built in the '70's maybe it was different then?. I know that DH will want to avoid any permit/inspection process as much as possible... so I'm not sure what we'll do. It would open up a whole can or worms...

OH bmore... I just got what I think you mean by "the 15 and 18" go back to a 24". You mean depth of cab run? That whole run will be standard depth. I only plan on bumping out the sink and baking run to 30" depth.

The info the frig is real beneficial. I think it'll benefit us to move that doorway wider.
Ci lantro... are you saying then that even if we moved the frig over so no part of it was in front of the wall where the panel is that I couldn't have a pantry closet against the wall there either? Wouldn't be the end of the world.

I'm still not understanding where the panel is but you're supposed to have a clear area in front of & to the sides of the panel and the size of that clear area is roughly the size of medium refrigerator. You're not supposed to have it even on the wall above a counter.

If the panel is on a wall that will be shared with the new laundry then you might be able to turn it to face into the new laundry area where you can plan to make space for it.

Another vote for 30" deep baking counters, great for rolling doughs and it's also nice to have a little extra space in front if you're using a stand mixer a lot.

If you've still got that 6-12" space available next to the fridge, you can do more than a broom closet pull-out. I did a two sided pot/pan/utensil peg board pullout. (got the idea from GW post w/IKEAfans site link) It's fairly new; I'm going to reorganize it soon.

You changed the cooking wall and extended the cabinets on left side of the cooktop into the ?former laundry? and across the entrance to the music room. It is the almost same place ci-lantro is concerned about with the breaker panel.

Been busy all day down at the house working on the outside. What if I got him to move the doorway and managed it something like this? Not sure what to do with the corner base. Some kind of corner cab... I need suggestions on that. I was thinking about open wall shelving in the corners of the bake area... I know that's details. Anyway... if I did the frig situation something like this?

bumping 'cause you guys are smarter then me!

OK--now I think I get it. The panel is on a wall that isn't showing up in the drawing? And you walk in front of the panel when you go thru the door to the old garage/ music room?

(Sheepish voice--NOW I see where the panel location is labeled in the drawing at the top of the thread (after you pointed it out w/ big red font!)

[I was thinking the panel would be on the interior side of an exterior wall so I was mentally trying to hang it somewhere where it is not.]

Technically up to code--probably not. But since you're not likely to get tangled up w/ inspections, permitting red tape, etc., I wouldn't worry about it.

And I do apologize for causing the distraction.

It must have been up to code when built cause it's orginal to the house. We did check with a friend yesterday who does inspctions for the state for carnivals... not an exact match I know but I thought he might know something. He said there is a clearance issue... wasn't positive but he thougth 3'. Anyway... he said he'll look it up for me. Either way... I'm thinking it may make more sense astheically to have an uninterupted wall space and then the doorway in the corner. Maybe not from a "oh no... I have more concrete wall to chop up" perspective... but from a looking down the galley and seeing pretty cabs and a nice frig and not a door into the laundry perspective. If you had a choice... what would you guys choose? I think he's weakening cause last night he asked, "so what are you planning that we're doing for lighting"? Oh the joy I'd feel if I actually have a layout that we'd both agree too!

Just three things...

There isn't enough clearance between the ref and the 15" cabinet on the range wall with the circuit breaker. It's only 30" at most and could be less depending on the refrigerator. That's the path you'll use for laundry. The plan leaves only 30" for the door opening to the laundry area including the casings. "normal" is 32" with 3 to 6" of casings on both sides - say 38" to 42". If the new door is currently an exterior corner, you should consult a structural engineer.

Because it's ikea, you're probably going to do a blind corner cabinet. Their blind corners need 48". Their only other corner cabinet is a sorta lazy susan with two doors hinged together which takes 37" on both walls. The only other corner treatment is to simply ignore it and not use the corner for storage.

It time to make sure you are accounting for trim pieces. One of the problems with ikea is that all that stuff becomes your problem. For example, you'll need a coverpanel for the exposed side of the dishwasher (and something to attach the coverpanel to) - or - move a cabinet where the dw is and bump the sink and dw over. The coverpanel takes inches - bumping down doesn't. However, if you are choosing something like the red doors, the coverpanel is required anyway.

OH crud... I didn't realize that putting doorway toward the corner of an exterior wall is a structural issue. The "room" that the laundry would go into is actually a structure that tenants built attached to the old laundry room (5x10 area that I'm incorporating into the kitchen where the frig is shown). we stuccoed it, there's a roof on it, DH wants to "shore it up" inside before finishing the interior walls. No permits were pulled... they just kinda did it and we decided to keep it. We have no intentions of moving so I'm not worried about that issue. It looks like it's part of the house. Would it help if I removed the pullout next to the frig? Would I have enough clearance for a french door frig/side by side frig door to the base cabs?

I can definitely use some help with this part of the kitchen. I'm open to idea as long as I have a 4' long baking counter I'm pretty much game for anything.

Moved frig to long run. Put doorway back (just about) where it was. DH would have to knock out/build up about 7" of doorway if I want the oven door not to infringe on the 2' of wall where the circuit panel is. Could I still have a 30" deep baking counter over there? Remember.. that part of the room is only 5' wide.

bumping one last time to see if I have to rework this layout idea due to frig clearance. OH... and IKEA is a strong possibility but I'm not married to the notion. It all depends on how pricing works out. If I move the frig like in this iteration, I think I'd do the coffee center on the 24" cab between the DW and frig. Mugs and whatnot can go in the uppers that are right there.

Darn those code inspectors! I was so enamored with the long camera shot of the frig at the end of the kitchen aisle, that I forgave having people walk past the cook to get to it. The frig on the other wall doesn't give me the same warm tinglies, but I think it does solve the code problem. The reality of the situation is that your aisle is wide enough where people can move freely without getting in the cook's way anyway. Any reason why the BB is down at the end instead of next to the stove?

I wasn't as worried about the code people as I was about being able to actually open the frig door. When I first started planning this I thought the old laundry room was 6' wide. Once all the cr#@p got cleared out I could measure accurately and found it was only 5'. Oh... those little details like being able to open a frig door!

Maybe it'll look awesome to look down my galley at a beautiful marble baking counter with some kind of killer backsplash?

Unless someone can figure out a way to have the frig face in and still open!

A french door frig wouldn't need as much space in front to open. Do you know which frig you're getting? And you're right a beautiful marble baking counter maybe with marble backsplash ala rmkitchen would look amazing down the galley. For a more realistic budget, marble tile backsplash can get the look without the ouch of a slab. I found a site with carrara marble tile for $6.50 sq/ft killer awesome price.

Here is a link that might be useful: cheap marble tile

Thanks for the link supermom! I'm not sure about the frig yet. The one time DH came with me to look he didn't like the construction on any of the reasonably priced brands (under $3000). He also didn't care of the freezer space in the french doors but I don't like sxs in the 36" and neither of us want to spend upwards of 5K on a frig. I could fit a 42" and tweak the cab to the side... the jury is still out on this one. I guess it'll depend on what kind of deal I find on whatever is available at the time. I'm going to want the appliances on site before I purchase and install the cabs.

I like that better.

I think... I would do micro/oven in a stack instead of the undercounter oven and small pantry beside it. This will open that doorway just a bit and put the oven at a height that's useful for you. At 32" counter heights, the oven will sit on the floor.

Do a 6 to 12 inch ikea fans pullout at the new laundry room door, the ref beside it and a larger cabinet (30 to 36") where you have the 24" cab beside the ref. You might be able to fit a corner cab there and angle the counter top to have a nice sized deep surface (and cover the side of the dw). You could retain a small window - like a single casement.

Consider lowering the entire cooktop run to 32". Maybe do marble on one side of the cooktop and wood on the other?

bmore... I"m confused.... if I put the oven in a stack, then I lose my 4' baking counter.... unless I'm misunderstanding you. My baking counter is a priority for me. I want it to be at least 4' long.

I am saying that - for two reasons. I don't think you have enough room for the door. So, I think it will be more like a 39 to 40" cabinet run (26" for counter top at wall with ref, 42" for door to laundry, 42" for counter top on top of the ovens) and I think you're out of space.

So the second reason is the oven will end up being nearly on the floor - if you're a big baker, having better ergonomics might be better than an extra bit of counter space. The oven will be about 4-6" lower that any range oven.

You have a greater than 4 foot long space on one side of the induction. It's your choice. I would trade it for better access to the oven. You may not want to and that's ok.

AARRRGGGHHHHHHHH!!!! This frig thing is making me crazy. What if I put the oven next to or under the induction cooktop. Have the baking center curve into the sink run. I'd do a marble return up to the standard height where the DW starts. Maybe put the desired edge grain BB on the DW? Rinse my veggies in the sink and chop on BB? I'm tired... tell me if this is better. Thanks all!

The baking center next to the frig makes sense to me because the deep 30" counter would hide the depth of the frig w/o having to go to a pricier counter depth frig. I don't like the bb over the dw, because I think it visually would chop things up to much to have marble then 24"bb then other particularly with the overhang running around to the other side.

Is it too early for me to say YEA.... Finally?!... Almost? I have to come up with something by that window where the overhang is. Rhome showed something with some kind of cab but I wasn't sure what it was to put there. I can start the orverhang a bit down the run ... curve it out.

Where can I put the BB if I get it? Can you put BB on the oven cab? Can hot things go directly on it? Or would I take things out of the oven and initally lay it on the stove? Just lay a towel or something on the BB like I do now with my Silestone? (though I admit to on a rare occasion placing stuff right on it ) I plan on this being a working top. I want to be able to cut directly on it. I think it's beautiful, epsecially edge grain, but I want function; and for me... it wouldn't make sense to have it if I'm not going to use it.

Still tired and have to get ready for school!

I think the BB would be fine over your oven. You could chop right on it then sweep your veggies into the waiting pot on your cooktop. I've heard BB can scorch if you place a very hot item on it, but I pull roasting pans out of my oven and place them onto my BB w/o a problem. Cookies/brownies/cakes always go on a cooling rack for air circulation, but a roast chicken just gets plopped onto the counter and I have yet to get a scorch mark. If I have something under the broiler, it goes directly onto the rangetop for fear of scorch marks, but when my soapstone goes in, it'll get plopped onto that counter.

I completely agree with lax above about making the ref run 30" deep - that would be great! The baking cabinet can overlap the angled corner a bit if it needs to.

From the baking cab to the dw, build a pseudo cabinet that is actually a pull out with a slanted front attached. Use one of those rev-a-shelf filler pullouts . Bit pricey - maybe your ikea installer will be able to make one.

Actually.... we are our own IKEA (if we do end up using that) installers! But DH is very very handy with carpentry so I'm sure he can rig something up. I typically come up with the design and he makes it happen. He just won't touch electrical... it works out badly every time he tries!

I just bookmarked that filler pullout.... THANKS!

OK... now I"m officially starting to get excited that I may actually have a perfected layout. Maybe this will actually get to happen afterall !!!!!!!

Not to complicate things, but I saw this ebay posting and thought of you. You can't use the susan, but there's a 36" sink base, several pullouts, pantries, deep overfrig cab, glass uppers, etc. Since they're clear maple you can probably get additional panels or cabs to match easily.

Here is a link that might be useful: ebay cabinets

Oh, also, I have a coupon code for 10% off any ebay paypal transaction good til the 30th. CHOLIDAYNOV2008

The cabs are pickup only. I'm not sure where you are in FL, but the cabs are in Lauderdale.

Definitely not BB on dw, but could work well on oven. Maybe just one to set on the counter like Jaymielo's great compromise? (Although, like me, you'd need a step stool to use hers, too!)

What cabinet that I had once did you have questions about?

Is the whole thing scooting toward the sitting room? We used to have it so the overhang stayed even with the back wall?

Did you see Berf's boards that sit on her counter, but wrap down the front? Then you could have it wherever you want to move it.

OH NO! No scooting... we don't want any scooting! I must have grabbed an old "drawing" off my saved file and tweaked the wrong one. As long as I know this will work.... I will do a perfect, no errors (I hope), as accurate as I can make it rendition.

Rhome... on one of the3D's you did for me it looked that there was some kind of cab running against the large window wall right where the overhang starts on the sink run.... maybe it was some open shelving? I wasn't sure.

So BB on my oven, my oven next to the induction top and by the Advantium, an ALMOST 4' long baking counter (actually, if I count the jog out I think it's more then 4'!) Do you think the jog part will be functional? YIPEE... I never thoght I'd get this far!

supermom.... thanks so much for the heads up. I'm right around Ft. Lauderdale but the door style won't work for me plus I want all drawers (where ever possible) for the lowers. It would be great to find something like that. I check craigslist daily and will start again with ebay. I know the chances of finding the door style I want in the configuration I need will be slim to none. But ones never knows....

I'm going to perfect a final drawing and then post. I'm going to need help to figure out what kind of lighting. Again... a little ahead of myself but if it took me this long to achieve a layout; who knows how long lighting will take! The electrical is one thing that we won't be doing any of the work on ourselves so I'd like to have as much as I can figured out so when we do have an electrician come in I can get a price for all the work at one time.

You are all amazing! Thank you seems inadequate.
Elyse

Something like this is all I could find...and look where the butcherblock is! ;-)

remodelfla,

On HGTV web site today there is a video entitiled:
A Kitchen with a Great Room
Just click on kitchens and it's the kitchen makeover of the week.

I thought you might enjoy it because it has counters at different heights and mixes butcher block in with granite. It looks wonderful. I thought of you when I saw the video.

As a matter of fact I'll just try to link it.

P.S. I love how this is looking. Not sure about the counter being set in on the sink side in the photo above but love everything else.

Here is a link that might be useful: Kitchen with varied height countertops and butcher block.