I haven't made any changes to walls, but my dining room long ago bit the dust. I've reached an age where most special meals with others happen in restaurants.

I collected all the junk that has no good home, and voila: computer room, mail center, recycling, answering machine, office, pantry, work room. And an extra litter box for an old cat with failing kidneys.

Mine is easily curtained off from the living room, and last year I was actually able to reclaim it for a special event. It still has it's original furnishings.

It has made keeping the house orderly SO much easier.

mal-
It's your home you should do what makes sense & what you like

That said -
Here are some things to consider

Making the DR a catch all room - mudroom/butlers pantry lose some of the homes original character as well as esthetics both from inside your home & outside - given this is the front of the house.

Personally it would drive me crazy having the Mud area & part of kitchen in the same room. I don't want to see all that when I'm working in the kit - the "drop counter" we seem to all have in our kitchens is enough for me - the thought of school stuff/backpacks, boots, mittens etc...would be too much - that's me though...
In that event I would opt for upper cabs and getting a mud area by the back door - I have a TINY one right outside the kit by back door - but it works.... then kids have another drop zone in basement where they each have a cubby...

What is the most used entryway? do you have a back door that you could get a mud area in?

It may hurt on resale - I know in my town removing a formal DR would definately have a negative affect on resale
I kept ours when we renovated because i wanted it - Center hall Dutch Colonial revival

With each design there are compromises - think of how you operate day to day, resale, etc...

Good luck!

From other discussions with Malhgold, I know she intends to use the current family room as a dining room...Since she has a living room, great room, the family turning to dining room, AND this little dining room, I'm not thinking she'd lose too much if she ever wanted to sell? And I'm not sure why it'd change the character of the house from the exterior?

Malhgold, if I knew before, I forgot...Do the kids come in from school through the front door? Could you benefit from a computer area, like janwad mentioned?

Not sure, as you know, M, about having something like an oven in that room, because of creating a new mess area and dirty dishes too far from the clean up area. I think a sink and fridge would be great, though, for a very functional pantry area...Someone can wash potatoes in there, etc...and deal with wiping counters and messy packaging or spills. Of course, if you're plumbing a sink, how about a small dishwasher? ;-D

I like your idea of repurposing the dining room as a kind of expanded butlers pantry combined with storage places for kids stuff. But, for me, I think IÂd change the placement of a few thingsÂIÂd make one big storage area for the kids where the pantry storage is. IÂd put the message center to the right of the window. To the left of the window IÂd add a tall cabinet to serve as a guest coat closet (I didnÂt see one elsewhere?). If youÂre not going to be prepping in here, I wouldnÂt keep the sink because the space is for the occasional cooking overflow. Because itÂs its own big room and not a large pantry or pass-through, I think having a sink in there declares the space as a second kitchen right next to the primary kitchen.

Are you going to keep this space as you intend in the kitchen, with no uppers? Then are you thinking the second oven would be under the counter? If so, IÂd move the oven next to the fridge, again keeping in mind that I wouldnÂt want to see it from the foyer.

A free-standing island/table would be wonderful in here. And whether you include uppers in this space or not, I think youÂll be getting some incalculable extra storage so convenient to the cook. When the island isnÂt in use, the kids can do their homework or crafts there without being underfoot while youÂre in the kitchen.

At first, I thought, "that seems like a waste of a lot of space". But, the more I thought about it, the more I realized just the opposite! You have enough room to have a mudroom plus an extra kitchen and extra storage! Now I think it's a pretty good idea.

As to resale, do you plan on selling anytime soon? If not, I wouldn't worry about it. The only reason it might hurt resale is b/c it's in the front of the house rather than the back. Traditionally, your type of house has the LR & DR in the front w/the rest of the "living" spaces in the back of the house...kitchen, mudroom, FR/GR, etc. But, it looks like you plan to preserve the outside look of the house and I think that someone with younger children might actually like the setup after thinking about it for awhile.

I agree w/RHome...a small (18") DW or single Drawer would probably be a good idea...

I'd also put the utility cab/closet in that room somewhere.

As to a "drop counter", I would much rather have it someplace out of sight from the kitchen where I think you plan on doing most of your prep/cooking. I got the impression that the Mudroom/Kitchen (MudKitch?) is really only for "overflow" prep and not for everyday kitchen use... If you have your "drop counter" (Message Center?) in the secondary kitchen, then you could just close the door if you need to hide any clutter.

I think I'd put in an island rather than a table so you can have electricity and more storage and maybe put the extra oven in the island. That would free up some wall space for a closet, additional space for the kids' backpacks, or other use. The 9' window pretty much eliminates that wall for cabs/closets, etc.

Do you plan to have a pantry in your "main" kitchen? If so, you may not need as big a pantry and that would also free up some wall space.

+++++++

My one concern depends on where the kids come in from the outside. Do they normally come in the front door? If so, the location of the Org Closets in the front of the house is very good. If not, then I think they should be located closer to your children's normal point of entry (garage entrance?) since children have a tendency to just drop things where they come in...at least mine do! And not just kids...DH does also.

Regardless of location, I do think, though, that 24"Lx18"D is too small for a coat/backpack/boots/etc closet. Do you have just 2 children? If you have more, then those closets definitely won't do! I would try for at least 30"L x 24"D. The window does seem to be an issue b/c of the little wall room on that wall (it looks like 21" on either side).

What about putting the two Org Closets on the same wall and next to the Message Center (or the Msg Center b/w them if you're trying to keep the kids apart)? If you shorten the Msg Center to 24"L, you would have enough room for 2-30" Org Closets 24" deep. You could have a couple of smaller pantries where the current Org Closets are...maybe one for small appliances and one for food or dishes.)

Hmmm...now that I think about it, it would put the kids in the secondary kitchen area instead of keeping them on the far end. (Unless the kids come in from the back pf the house, then the location closer to the middle of the house may make more sense; perhaps the island could be moved toward the front of the house 12"-18" to ease the crowding.)

OK, how about this...move the sink to the island and move the oven down next to the refrigerator. You could put a small utility closet to the left of the window (18"x18" should be big enough) and then have the 2-30" Org Closets next to the utility cabinet/closet. That would give you 45" (30" (oven) + 15" extra) for landing space for both the refrigerator & oven and they would both be fairly close to not only the prep sink in the island but also to the kitchen where you will be taking the "final product" from the oven.

Then to the right of the window, you could put in either a computer station or a small regular closet for you and DH or for jacket overflow. Or, you could put another pantry over there and then shorten the current pantry to allow for a larger desk area...Message Center + Computer station. Or, you could move something out of the main kitchen into the secondary and put the computer station in the main kitchen or dining area.

+++++++++

Just throwing some ideas out there to think about! HTH!

I'd skip it as a second kitchen, but absolutely use it as an alternate room. Elegant built ins used as pantry. Kid desks/tables/beanbags/whatever. A kitchen island (not built in). Nice dorm fridge and microwave. If needed, get one of the large catering countertop convection ovens (like a Cadco). Possibly a small bar with bar sink with the built ins and you can sneak in a disposal. Or check out the Ikea free-standing kitchen cabinets--no reason to nail down cabinets. But that's all I'd do.

Nothing that can't go back to a (slightly smaller due to the built ins) formal dining room by swapping out furniture. It can serve as a kids' room or it can serve as a classy place to serve drinks and host a small dinner.

But that's just me. You gotta do what you gotta do. I'd hate to be without a dining room, even though my dining room is...well, I finally got the sewing machine out, but that just means I now have seating for ten to color...

I did sort of the same thing - used the family room as the eating area. It's a little more formal than eating in the kitchen, since we have a tablecloth all the time, have the dining room chairs in there, etc, but since it's open to the kitchen it feels more casual than a separate dining room. It's big enough to hold a huge table and all the relatives. There was room for only a teeny table in the kitchen. And it's lovely to have a fire going while you have breakfast.

Only downside is when I thought about selling my house, the realtor told me to put everything back, since I no longer had a separate family room off the kitchen. I still had a living room and a finished basement functioning as a family room. But it was "different" from all the other houses in the neighborhood. So you might want to make sure the process is reversible.

I still have my house, and my kitchen table is still in the family room :)

Thanks for the input everyone. The reason I want to use this room for something else is that I hate using it as a DR. It is too small and I feel claustrophobic in there. I don't need any additional "living space" so I thought this was a good idea as I'm having a hard time fitting everything I want into my "kitchen.

We actually enter the house through our basement as our garage is below ground and under the great room. We walk up the steps and thru the door where it says "basement" in the layout. Make a hard right and you're in the kitchen. There are very few people that actually walk in the front door. The issue is that while I have coat racks down in the basement, no one stops to drop their coats or shoes down there. It all piles up in the kitchen. Also, as the homework is done pretty much in the kitchen and backpacks currently have no where to go, they wind up on the floor in the kitchen as well. I do have a fairly unused closet in the front hall that I'm thinking of "finishing off" and using that as the coat/backpack/shoe storage area. That would free up that space in the DR. If I do this, I could then move the message center to the upper right corner near the window and put the under counter oven where the message center was.

In terms of the view from the outside into the DR, my house is set back fairly high above street level so no one can even see in the front windows of my house. I also do have blinds on those windows that are closed all the time. Even so, I'm not really sure why putting cabinetry in that room would have a negative affect on the way it looks from the outside. We do not plan on selling any time soon. We have an 11 year old DD and an almost 9 year old DS.

To answer some questions:

No pantry in the main kitchen, that's why I want to put a pantry in the DR and also the kids snacks, cookies, chips, etc. Still not sure if I want coffee maker, toaster oven stuff in there. Might start to get confusing as to where to put plates and utensils. Not sure I want 2 sets of everything, although if I do put a diswasher in there, that would help.

Trying to preserve the idea of "no uppers" in here as well.

I really don't want a permanent island in there. I am already planning a fairly large(at least to me) one in the kitchen and I don't want 2. I really like the table and it would be something different.

I still think a 2nd oven could work in there(sorry Rhome). I'm just talking about using it on those occasions where an extra is needed. Not on a daily basis. I don't know that it would be creating all that much of a mess.

I really didn't want to turn this into a 2nd kitchen as I don't have lavish parties and don't cook gourmet meals on a daily basis. But, it is nice if I have extra space to make the most of it. I had considered Ikea cabs for in here if I could get them to work with whatever I decide for the kitchen. Hadn't thought about the freestanding but that is a good suggestion. I happen to really like the way they look.

Really, the sink/DW and the oven are up for grabs. Anyone have any idea what it might cost to add plumbing to that room?

I tried to capture the formal dining room in our center hall colonial and make it a mudroom/panty, but DH made it an office by adding french doors on both openings. It would have made a great mudroom/pantry. It was too small and for us too redundant to use for a dining room. We do have a family room, living room and eating area, so having a formal dining for us was not needed as the eating area in the kitchen is 15*10 and open to the living room so plenty big for a large formal dinner and bigger in fact than the formal dining room.Personally, I say go for it and use it for something other than a formal dining room.

I only thought the oven would create more mess if you ended up preparing things to go in it in there...Like if you ended up doing the mixing and pan prep for baking. But a dishwasher would solve the misgivings I have about that. If no dw, I think a good sized sink would be a necessity. I just had a harder time picturing the oven in there, since it's not really 'normal' in a pantry area...But I'm getting used to it, and beginning to see how it could be useful to have the extra oven and without taking room out of your prime kitchen space to do so.

I love the free-standing cabinets idea...Didn't really know IKEA had them.

Do you think the kids will do homework at the kitchen island, or maybe in this other room? (Not only now, but as they get older, which will be FAST.) Will they need a place to access the computer? It could be a good place for them to have space set up for that...It'd be out of the busyness of the kitchen enough for some quiet concentration, but close enough for you to help them or otherwise keep an eye on them...Like when the teen years hit and they're more tempted to email friends on MySpace, rather than do their school reports! ;-D

While I think you should make your space work for what you need out of your home, I also think the front rooms of your home should greet guests and welcome them. They are the first impression of guests, and eventually, potential buyers. If there is any chance resale will be an issue for you anytme when dollars will matter, I would think twice or thrice about it. I think it could be a huge negative.

As an alternative, could you take the front part of that room and create a study and workplace while taking the back piece to create a mudspace? You could leave a hallway along the side -- even put in some shallow (12-15") sroeage along the side and have cubbies and hooks across from your powder room. It looks like you have quite a bit of pantry space in your kitchen drawings.

Just curious....for those of you that are opposed to the idea, is it more that appliances/sink/DW will be in there or are you also resistant to the idea of built-ins and additional storage? Or is it the idea that it's going to be a mud room?? That functionality was just another idea to make use of the space. It doesn't have to be in that room as there are other options for places to put that.

Thanks for the help!!!

mal
First it's your home & only you truly know what is best suited for it and your family -

The responses re: concern above I think give a good general opinion about resale - that has the potential to be a negative. lascatx brings the pt to light I would tend to agree w/that op.
Not opposed - necessarily - just a different op - it's not my home....
try to imagine a time when the house is being sold - the first thing the broker will ask is "what is this room?" -

If you have other options to put the mud area esp I would go that route - since you do come in throught the basement why not try to retrain your family to let that be the drop off zone - cubbies/hooks/baskets etc....

When you put appliances & plumbing in DR it would be difficult & a big expense to change that back in the event of resale & a broker saying changing it back will mean X$$
Perhaps contacting a broker or 2 before you decide may help in understanding what the market calls for in your area.

To me, esp if you have other areas to designate, it just seems like a not clearly defined room - mud area & kit should be 2 separate imo.... Try to imagine being the person who is your potential buyer - walk in your own front door and what do you like/not like -
Could a potential buyer walk in and say "do I take my shoes off here or take the cake out of the oven"

Good luck

Lascatx, the room you see above with pantry storage is the proposed plan for the family room. I've helped her previously on her kitchen plan and she doesn't have enough room for any pantry space in it. Is something like this what you meant?

Malhgold, unless I missed it, you never mentioned possible resale as a consideration or priority, but wanted the best use of an otherwise unused room--- which is next to a kitchen that can't offer all you'd like. I'm a firm believer in making the house work best for your family, and that you can't guess what will be important to a possible next owner...Especially if that next owner will be buying the house decades from now. (Besides, I think if you appreciate the increased function of something, another buyer might love it, too.) There is a point past reason and doing things that could 'ruin' it, but pretty much anything is 'undoable' when you're not changing the structure of the house. As far as I can tell, you don't even plan to move the doorways, and certainly not walls, only possibly add elements to an existing room. Make it the best you can for you. I do like the option Lascatx suggested that could help you keep the best of both worlds, getting kitchen and office/public space out of that room.

I generally would say make it work for you also, but I do think there are some things that generally shouldn't be done. What is basically a storage area (mudroom/pantry) at the front entry of the home is one of those things. I suppose there are exceptions to everything -- this too, but it is a lot of room taken without a lot of additional use in my book. If it really works, does add that much function and can be easily changed back if and when needed, than it's really not that big a deal. But keep the change potential and the greeting at the front door impact in mind (as well as the view from the formal living room).

What rhome has shown is something like what I was suggesting. You could configure the space many ways, but the key in my mind is creating a study off the entry. A study is a valued addition in this area and I understand in homes generally -- attributed to jobs with work at home, flextime and kids on the computer.

If you do want to pursue the idea, please do not put a back pack/shoes and jacket spot right next to an oven. Ouch!

My house has almost the exact same layout - it's so interesting to see what others would do with it! We're adding a big mudroom and family room elsewhere and turning the dining room into a small sitting room off the kitchen (which will be the whole kitchen/family room space), and we're turning our living room into the office. I think your idea of making it a "workroom" type of space is great - this type of house needs space for the kids' stuff, pantry storage, etc. I think it will be great - I can't wait to see pictures! Our remodel is underway right now, and the dining room is now being used as our makeshift kitchen...

How about this? Could it DO what you want and LOOK like what Lascatx is suggesting would be more appropriate? How about it looking like a sitting room, but going with the idea of free standing storage, use armoire type storage? Maybe even cover an extra fridge that way. It could then be a cozy parlor and homework doing space, but also hide all sorts of goodies...Or you could put in a whole wall of cabinetry, more of a library quality...It could look elegant and have comfy arm chairs in front, maybe a nice desk in the corner, but still storing all you need, including, maybe, backpacks, etc. in one end.

It could be a whole new trend in pantries! ;-D

Here is the plan and views from entry and kitchen...The wall of cabinets, and a table fit better than a desk (That's supposed to be a built-in, paneled fridge in the center):

november - would love to see your plans if you could post them.

Rhome - I still like the first idea you posted better, where the room is split into 2. Makes the back part more "attached" to the kitchen and the front part cozier. Also, I'm trying to avoid spending the money on a built in frig in the kitchen, let alone get an integrated one for in this room. I do know that the Yestertec website does alot of this type of thing, just don't know that it's what I'm interested in. I'm starting to like the study/desk idea in the front. And...I actually have a desk in the basement that we're not using. It could work....

Talked to DH and we're off to Home Depot this weekend to find some shelving/organization stuff to make better use of our front hall closet(which is currently a waste of space with 1 hanging bar for coats) as a backpack/coat/shoe area. Hoping between that and the basement I can get most of the kids stuff put away. But they'd have to actually put it away first. How do you train them to do that????