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ash6181

Layout advice for new build, please?

ash6181
12 years ago

I would really appreciate everyone's ideas and help with our layout. Getting to this point has been a saga, but I'm sure anyone else who posts on this board understands the delays and frustrations inherent in a building project. I'm sure it will only get worse.:-)

This is a new build, so in theory anything can be moved. However, moving the doorway to the hall would be somewhat problematic. If anyone wants to see the rest of the first floor, I can post later after I receive my PDF.


Currently, it is my husband and me and our two dogs. Children are a possibility in the future. I usually cook dinner every week night, and at least one meal on the weekends. I like to make things from scratch and enjoy baking. Typically, I am the one that does the cooking. My husband rarely cooks, but does cleanup frequently.

Our current kitchen is small and has minimum storage space and very little counter space (like maybe 3 feet), so almost anything is an improvement. My goals are to have more storage space and counter space. I really enjoy cooking, baking, and entertaining and I need space to store baking supplies, cake pans, serving dishes, etc. I'd also like to have space to eat in the kitchen; we plan on having stools at the island for seating.

I imagine that people will gather in the kitchen when we entertain; in my family the women seem to gravitate to the kitchen while the men plop down in front of the TV.

We currently do not entertain, but it's because we have no space. We'd like to entertain frequently and typically informally. I imagine setting up buffets on the island. I'll probably eat breakfast in the kitchen, and my husband and I will probably eat dinner there as well. I can also see me doing meal plans and grocery lists at the island, and our theoretical children doing their homework at the island while I make dinner.

We will have a separate dining room that will be used for holidays. We may use it for dinner, but it's hard to say as we don't have a dining room now for comparison.

I don't think there are any real constraints on where things have to go, although I do like having the sink under the windows. I also would prefer not to have anything on the island, including a prep sink.

I do bake a lot, but I'm not sure if a baking center is required. I'm thinking of adding a bar sink and a beverage refrigerator to the refrigerator wall and keeping the coffee pot over there for a beverage center area.

We plan on having double convection ovens, a 36" induction cooktop, a hood over the cooktop, a standard dishwasher, a French door refrigerator (39"), and an upright freezer in the pantry. We'll also have a regular microwave, but we don't use it that much and I haven't decided where to put it yet. Maybe between the double ovens and pantry?

The doorway at the upper left of the kitchen leading into the hall will be the main entry into the kitchen (and the rest of the house beyond) from the garage and mudroom. The doorway at the bottom left leads only into the pantry. The opening at the right side of the kitchen leads into the family room and other rooms at the front of the house. I think I have all of the dimensions labeled. Ceiling height is 10', and we may end up doing beams or a coffered ceiling or something of that type.

The island will be one level; the "serving bar" indicates the overhang. Also, the screened porch beyond the kitchen will probably be changed to an open, uncovered deck. The windows in the kitchen will overlook a pond in the backyard area, and from the island looking through the family room there is a view of the lake.

I look forward to everybody's ideas and feedback!

Thanks,

Ashley

Here is a link that might be useful: Plan PDF

Comments (9)

  • rhome410
    12 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Warning...In all care and concern for you having the best kitchen possible, and because I think this is almost a great layout, I'm going to fight you on the prep sink issue. ;-) Please bear with me and read through...

    If you're concerned about losing counter space, keep in mind how much more than you had before. If you place a prep sink on the corner of the island, you'd still have approximately 6 feet of prep space in front of the range. That's 3 1/2 feet more than I have, and I wouldn't trade my prep sink to have more. Keeping it to the corner of the island would make it accessible from the end of the island for others to use it without getting in your way, and it leaves more of the island free for people sitting or spreading out a buffet. (For a buffet, you can put ice in the sink and keep cans of soda/beer or display dishes of things that need to stay cold, like shrimp.)

    Here are the ways we use ours that I shared in another recent discussion here:

    Washing and paring veggies, chicken, etc. for cooking.
    Draining and filling pots for beans, pasta, etc.
    Adding water and draining veggies steamed in the microwave.
    Washing gooey hands and adding water to baking projects.
    Filling the dog's water dish.
    Filling water pitchers to take to the table.
    Washing hands.
    Washing fruit for snacks.
    Filling water bowls for water color painting.
    Wetting down soil when using my island as my gardening station for starting seedlings. ;-)

    ...All sorts of things! I so love tending to food without working over dirty dishes.

    Mostly, it is an essential part of dividing my kitchen into work zones, which allows efficient work paths for different tasks (when working alone or with someone) and separates different work areas so that when there are additional workers or visitors in the kitchen, no one is under someone else's feet or fighting for the same sink or work space convenient to it.

    Swapping the fridge and oven would help if you're absolutely against having a prep sink, since then the island wouldn't be a barrier between fridge and sink. That swap would give you more room for a baking center, but again, a prep sink on that corner of the island will be of benefit for those tasks.

    When/if you ever have little ones under your feet, having a sink just a turn from the stove will be safer when moving to drain a pot of hot water, and later it will allow them to more easily work with you.

    This is a big change from what you've had, and you want it to serve you through entertaining much more and possibly through raising a family. Try to look beyond what you're used to and plan for the best in the busiest use of the kitchen you can possibly think of.

    Is a prep sink an absolute necessity? Maybe not...But you're planning a large, first class kitchen with a lot of use from what you're saying you want to do with it... Why leave out something that could be so valuable?

    Where are you planning to store dishes? I'd place the dishwasher to whichever side of the sink that puts it closest to the dish storage.

    Here is my kitchen layout and how the work zones and traffic patterns work. You can see that without the prep sink, there'd be much more running around, people crossing each other's paths, and too many uses for the main sink. As I said above, I do NOT miss prepping food over dirty dishes. You may never have many dishes in the sink at this point in your lives, but I'm betting large group entertaining and kids will change that.

    Best wishes!

    Here is a link that might be useful: Recent posts about kitchen zones on my blog

  • palimpsest
    12 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Briefly:

    I would consider a to-the-counter cabinet facing IN on each end of the sink run to store dishes or glasses. Some things work well undercounter, but some dishes/glasses etc. store better "up." That will still give you an almost "no upper" appearance, frame the window, and give you 48" of storage x # of shelves near the DW and sink.

    I would push the double ovens "south" not have the strange short counter run to their left and have a prep sink. If you don't think you will use it all the time, get a covered one (butcher block for example). The prep sink could be on the back counter run or the island.

    Move the Freezer down a bit, rework the door on the pet pantry and have the pantry doors swing into the pantry, not out into the kitchen.

    The freezer could also go at the other end of the run that the fridge is on so you had a tall wall with a bit of set down in between. That would only work with true counter depth, which it looks like you are doing.

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  • lisa_a
    12 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Freezers - all electrical appliances, actually - create heat, which is usually not something you want to add to a pantry. Just something to think about. I like palimpsest's idea of moving it out by the fridge and creating a "wall of tall."

    I'd go with a pocket door for the pantry. No need to mess with door swing. And I'd definitely move the ovens down, as palimpsest suggested. There's a danger of that section of counter between ovens and pantry wall becoming wasted space.

    I would also encourage you to have a prep sink. It's a long walk from fridge to sink and then back to cook top counter or island to prep. I'm adding a prep sink to my island, which is nowhere near as large as yours (my kitchen isn't as large as yours either) and I'm giving up some counter space because it will make my kitchen function better and handle multiple cooks better (think holidays when everyone is trying to get to the lone sink).

    4' and 4'6" aisles are generous aisles. You could go with 6" narrower aisles at the top and bottom end of the island and expand your island by 1', which would give you room for a prep sink while still keeping a generous stretch of counter and 48" between counters. (seriously, I'd kill for as much counter as you'll have. ;-) )

    Where are you putting the MW? Are you creating a snack center? I see lots of counter and storage but I'm wondering what use you're assigning to each area.

  • ash6181
    Original Author
    12 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Thanks for the advice so far. Apparently I really need to think about the prep sink long and hard. Does anyone have suggestions for where to put the microwave? Individual responses below.

    rhome410

    I'm not absolutely and completely opposed to a prep sink, and it is something I am still mulling over. It's an aesthetic thing for me, not that I think prep sinks are inherently ugly, but there's something about a large, unbroken island that I love. Your make good points, though, and I'm giving the issue some thought.

    I don't necessarily have everything planned out yet as far as where things will go. I wanted to see if the general layout and appliance locations worked before I got too involved in assigning everything else a location, but I have been working on it. I agree about the dishwasher, and it can move to either side of the sink with no problem.

    Thanks for posting the diagram of your kitchen; that was helpful.

    palimpsest

    I have considered the cabinets on the sink run, and may add them in yet.

    My concern with putting the double ovens down at the end of the counter next to the pantry was that it might be slightly harder to access them. Where they are now, they are in the aisle so nothing would be behind you when you're reaching into the ovens. Am I worrying about nothing? I agree that corner has the potential to become dead space, I had considered putting the microwave, mixer, and/or cookbooks there.

    We are planning on getting a plain jane freezer, so I'm not sure that I would want to put in on display in the kitchen. The freezer would mostly be for bulk items or preserving fruits and veggies, and not necessarily accessed daily.

    lisa_a

    Point taken about the freezer and heat generation. I like the pocket door idea for the pantry. As I mentioned above, I'm still considering the prep sink idea. I have thought about narrowing the aisles and enlarging the island; I've been mocking up aisle space in my current kitchen to try it out. Not sure where the microwave is going yet, but I'm open to suggestions. I don't know that we need a snack center, but would like to hear what people keep in them and how useful they might be. I haven't finished assigning items to each area yet, as mentioned above. I've made up my list of what needs to be stored, and have started giving things a home, but wanted to make sure the general layout and appliance locations worked before I finished.

  • mpagmom (SW Ohio)
    12 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Just an idea, and I'm not really sure if I love it, but you could move the double ovens to the refrigerator wall for a wall of tall, then put a prep sink around where the ovens are now. You could maintain your unbroken island that way.

    I really like palimpsest's idea about two cabinets facing in on the sides of the window.

    Your layout looks great and I can't believe the pantry space you'll have. That's bigger than some people's kitchens!

  • ControlfreakECS
    12 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    I was going to suggest the same thing as mpagmom, re: the prep sink doesn't have to be on the island, if fact, I prefer it on the same run as the cook top because I am one to do lots of dripping and dropping while I move things from prep to cooking.

    Have you thought about how you are going to use each area? Where are you planning to eat most of your meals? For example, do you envision the counter next to the fridge being a beverage area? If that is where you want to store glasses (easy to get a drink) that is very far from your dishwasher. At first I was envious of this big, gorgeous space, but the more I look at it, it seems almost too big (crazy, I know). I think, though, that if you put a little thought into how you will move around in the space, use the various areas, and where you will need to use things, you can definitely make it work. Things like a prep sink, second dishwasher, beverage fridges or fridge drawers are often put in kitchens of this size because you almost need to to make them functional.

    Where to put the microwave depends on how you use it. Steam veggies for dinner? Melt butter or chocolate when baking? Heat up leftovers? Then, put it where you would use it most. Lots of people with large pantries put the microwave in there, but they don't use the mw daily.

  • blfenton
    12 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    The idea about pocket door for the pantry is a good one but unless you have enough room on the left side or can build out the wall to hold it you can't put it on the right side because you have electrical for the fridge.

    I would make the island 12" longer and narrow your aisles down to 4'. However it depends on why you want the spacious aisles - is it the look or space needed for multiple people/cooks.

    I like the idea of moving the ovens to the fridge wall and putting the prep sink along the range wall and leaving the island clean. I use my prep sink all the time and it is on my range wall with about 5 1/2' of counter between the two. I don't like dripping on the floor which is why it's on the same counter run as my stove. You have a big hike between your sink and the fridge and you would really benefit from a prep sink between your range and closer to the fridge. Don't forget to put the trashpullout beside the prep sink.

    For your microwave what about a microwave drawer in the island.

  • bmorepanic
    12 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    I dunno about the aisles, doorways and the ref location. I'm guessing from your drawing that you'll enter the house most often from the garage.

    I'm looking at the opening up near the bathroom and the ref located on the other side of the room and all that walking carrying groceries as well as all that walking to make supper because of where the water is. Also, a little inconvenient for come home and want a drink of some sort.

    I'm not stepping into prep sink arguments - just saying I would do one for all those times when people "bring something" that actually needs work or an oven or for when they want to help. I hate that! I could throw them towards the cleanup sink or the ovens and still have my sink.

    Drawing is for illustration only. I don't think this is great or nothing, but I wonder if you should build a tighter work area and something more ?accessible? for parties and/or stray workers.

  • remodelfla
    12 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    I love the separation of zones and it does remind a bit of rhome's general placement of cabinets. I think you can do better on the work zones though. Would you be willing to shrink the window some or break it into a couple of windows? Here's just a thought along those lines: On the bottom I would put the cleanup sink and DW with cabs above for storage. On the west side I would put the frig up at the top end and double ovens at the other end. That would give you close enough access to water for baking down by the bottom and a glorious length of counter for baking/rolling work. At the top, I'd split the windows and put the cooktop flanked by two large windows (I'm partial to that look) and a prep sink under one of the windows. Easy access for handwashing or a drink off the hall but keeping people out of the cooking area if you put the prep sink toward the left end. Most of your time will be spent prepping. You may lose the cleanup sink under the window but now you will have created a kitchen meant for multiple cooks/helpers. I completely understand about loving uninterrupted island space, love that look myself. NOw your island can be used for plating, buffet, and future homework/projects. I would probably shrink the island to a total of 4' in width. 30" for prep/plating/projects and an 18" overhang. I'd put a microwave drawer in the island for an easy reach while cooking in case you want to melt some butter or whatever. What's also nice about that is that future kids could grab a snack from the frig and heat it up in the MW without completely coming into the cooking area. Another option is to flip what I said on the left side and the top but that will probably involve shrinking the window a bit more for both the ovens and frig. The upside to that idea is it would keep the cooking area out of the traffic path from the hall to the family room. I hope that somewhat made sense.