are you using stone or porcelain? the porcelain would be easy to take care of. ...and just as an fyi: i will never again use light colored grout anywhere, ever.

Our tile is beige with "mushroom" grout and so far so good! No problems w/stained or dirty grout. It has only been 9-1/2 months, but those months have included the muddiest seasons around here...spring and autumn. We have red clay soil that seems to stain everything, but it hasn't yet stained our tile or grout.

Our tile guy used "StarQuartz/Quartz-Lock" grout...no sealing/no staining. Our tile is a Glazed Porcelain tile.

Tile: Emser Tile, Vecchia CorteÂ, color Beige
http://www.emser.com/showroom/vecchia_corte/vecchia.html

Grout: StarQuartz/Quartz-Lock (urethane based grout that contains no epoxy, no cement and no pigments), color Mushroom
http://www.starquartz.com/grout-color-chart.html

It might be possible to keep light grout lines clean, but in a room as large as a kitchen, I think you might grow to resent the time, effort, and CONSTANT surveillance it would take.

I have ivory colored tile with matching grout and it's no bother at all. I guess if you have small children at the spilly stage, maybe, but otherwise it's totally no big deal.

buehl: have we ever seen a pic of your floors? would you mind? and the grout sounds very promising!

I had a tile floor with light grout in my kitchen before the renovation. I would NEVER do light grout again. I just felt like it was never clean and it showed everything.

I went with a wood laminate floor in my kitchen, which I know a lot of people here would never do. But, to each their own! I love how easy it is to clean, it's looks and I never have to look at dirty grout again.

Good luck in your kitchen renovation.

Barb

It's actually a little lighter than it looks in the above picture.

More like this... (Kitchen was still under construction in this picture so no cleanup had been done yet.)

I too had light colored tile and light grout. Never again would I do that. Certain areas get used more than others and in those areas the grout got darker than the rest. Hated it.

We've had Rialto Beige tile with Laticrete "Mushroom" epoxy grout in our kitchen, mud room, laundry room and powder room for a year. We've tracked plenty of rest-of-the-house remodeling detritus through it, and it still looks great.

The tile is stone, marble, actually, tho it's not a white marble with veins.

Hmm, mixed opinions. I wonder what accounts for your different experiences. Like I said, we put pale limestone floors in a small bathroom 14 years ago, when my kids were very young, and used some natural sealer product. True, I was far from fastidious about cleaning it, but one day I looked at it and noticed it was black. That really bummed me out, and I don't want that to ruin these beautiful kitchen tiles if I get them.

buehl, what do you do to keep your floor/grout clean?

As far as grout goes, have any of you used epoxy grout? How do you think it compares, in terms of cleanability, to regular grout? I've used both, and sadly haven't found the epoxy to be that much better. Maybe it's just me.... I'm kind of "cleaning challenged".

weedy, I didn't see your last post until now. How do you care for the floor? I've used Laticrete too, but as I've said, I'm not too fastidious about cleaning floors. I'm worried that if they get dirty and you mop them, the dirty mop water will darken the grout, whether it's epoxy or not. Maybe if I vacuum them daily the mop water won't be too dirty.

That's the question: what cleaning methods work best?

Thanks! My heart is set on this floor, so if there's something I can do to prevent black grout, I'll be willing to do it!

With the conditions you describe, I'd NEVER use a natural stone product for flooring. Porcelain, absolutely! (Especially with an epoxy grout.) But stone is porous and has to be sealed and KEPT sealed, and it sounds as though that is a chore that you won't want to keep up with. If you aren't fastidious about doing this, then more than just the grout will become dirty. The stone itself will also become stained with dirt. Porcelain is virtually non porous and epoxy grout is stain proof. That would be your perfect flooring combo in your home's environment.

i struggled over the decision to use porcelain over natural stone for our bathroom floors. i visited several friends who have honest-to-goodness mansions. as i sat on the potty in the master of a good friend i looked down and what did i see? yep. porcelain.
and... i visited my stone fabricator (counters) and he showed me a tile from italy that looked exactly like the botticino marble i was planning for my MB at 1/2 the cost. SOLD! good luck to you.

We just use water & occasionally a little detergent on the floors. So far, so good! We have 2 dogs + 2 kids who all track in mud & what I call "softball dirt" that stains everything it touches (you should see the FR carpet!), but it doesn't seem to stain the tile or grout.

I've also splashed spaghetti sauce on the floor & even dropped an entire jar of salsa and no stains! (The salsa was cleaned up immediately, the spaghetti sauce was not...I didn't see it right away!)

Neither our tile nor our grout need sealing...just what I prefer...no extra maintenance!

If you check the Flooring Forum, most people seem to dislike the epoxy grout...IIRC, it has more to do with difficulty using it rather than wear-ability. But it's been a while since I researched it.

There is one drawback...I can't always tell when the floor is dirty...well, I guess it's a drawback since I don't wipe up the floor as much as I used to!

I wanted a "stone look" for my kitchen floor but I was cautioned against it by most everyone I know because of the dirt issues. I went with a beautiful Italian porcelain that I LOVE, LOVE! I'm not sure what kind of grout was used as my tiler, who is very particular, bought the grout himself, used on his own floors. I'm thrilled with it -- very easy maintenance. I sweep when needed and wash with hot water once a week. Sometimes I mix in a little vinegar. I've had it since Feb, 08 and the tile looks brand new and the grout has remained clean and "white." The tile is a creamy off white with tan/beige/light coffee veins and the grout is like a linen color.

The other thing I want to add is that the tile is comfortable on the feet, barefoot or not.

I have floors like this and I like the look. I mixed the epoxy grout myself, and tried out different twists to get the grout just right. After doing this several times, I became the guy to call on to get light colored epoxy grout in other people's light tile bathroom projects. No kidding.

After a few years I have found it worthwhile to get a vaporetto to steam the grout and tiles and also to clean the Other tiled floors in the house. Other cleaning methods work too but a steam clean device is incredibly quick and efficient in comparison, and having light tiles and grout you have visible proof within seconds instead of having only a hunch that it is better.

Sanded epoxy grout turns out to be a dirt magnet in some cases, sometimes not. Depends on the mixture, not on the color. If you have removed a little drop of the hardener it is a bit squishier all the time, and dirt finds it like an eraser, good to stick to.

My next project is my kitchen, with white tiles (rectified) and light colored grout.

In tile like you have shown above, there is always some other color mixed in barely, and the best color for grout is not pure white (too harsh) but one that picks up the main secondary color, like a linen or light tan, etc. I'd go either into something a bit more red or green or blue or yellow but not gray.

I think light colored grout is just one more social marker, differentiating yourself from butchershop grout. The more extremely light colored the tile is, the more it highlights your other light things, cabinets, furniture or counter. Ta-da !

David

Boy, this is another tough one. I really want to go with the tile I saw, so I find myself "listening" in a biased way here. Chances are those of you who said never to use real stone and light grout are right, especially given our rough habits. What to do, what to do...

I'll look at porcelain tile again. I have to admit, I have two rooms with porcelain, two with stone, and the porcelains do look better. As for the grout, epoxy was the first one I ever used, so it doesn't seem harder to me. But it might be too expensive in a room the size of my kitchen.

David, do you think epoxy is easier to keep clean? How do you mix it to minimize the "dirt magnet" quality -- a touch more hardener? And a vaporetto, which I never heard of, is a steamer you can use to clean dirty grout? Do you rent or buy it?

Thanks

Here's my .02 cents worth for what it's worth:

Preface: I am a second generation in the Trade - my dad started
his apprenticeship in 1947 as a Tile Setter, and I started my
Tile apprenticeship in 1978 - 31 years later, then got into Slab Fabrication in 1985)

This is what has always worked for me and my clients when it comes to joint fillers & colors:

My best advice is to choose a color of your joint filler (grout)
AS CLOSE TO THE NATURAL COLOR OF DIRT AS POSSIBLE!
I have had really good results using Custom's "Light Smoke". Hydroment
(by Upco) has been just as good - but it's hard to get Hydroment
products this far out west... :-(

Here in Arizona, 90% of the floors are natural stone - and 90% of them are
lighter shades of limestone and or travertines. The "wear factor" will have a lot
to do with the amount of staining agents that come in contact with your tile
and grout, and the frequency of which you clean up your floors.

A glazed ceramic will in many cases - be way easier to clean and keep looking
good over a long period of time - but 100% Natural Stone has the "real deal" factor-
which is a turn on to many people - the trade off is there's more upkeep and
sealing involved.

In my opinion, don't waste your money on an epoxy grout - focus instead - on
choosing a grout COLOR that will NOT show dirt and stains as easily as a
"pure white" or a lighter color that shows any dirt...

There are polymer and latex additives that can give a grout a higher
resistance to staining (and at a fraction of the cost of epoxy) but many applications
do NOT require the added MOJO!!!! (IMHO) - My Brother Bill Vincent
may disagree, or he may agree - it wuld be cool if he chimes in on this thread.....

Personally, I have litterally put in hundreds of thousands of square feet of tile flooring of pretty much every kind of tile between 1978 & 2003 -
in pretty much every kind of application:
(residential, commercial, industrial, etc).....

The ONLY time I'd suggest an epoxy grout, is in a commercial application,
where LIMITED chemical and corrosion resistance is a concern -
and even then, epoxies are more for bond than they are for corrosion or stain resistance.... Believe it or not - Epoxies are NOT the end all & cure all!!!

Trust me - after doing tile and stone for 30 years - remember these three words:

"Customs Light Smoke"

Just my .02 cents worth - but it's worked for me

Hope my little rant helps..........

kevin

I too am a member of the 'Dirt Colored Grout Fanclub'. Like indoor plumbing and electicity, it simply makes life easier.

In my bathrooms several years ago, I made the mistake of wanting white floor tile with white grout. My bathroom still looks fine but the bathrooms used by boys do not. Especially around the toilet. You don't want to know. And I've scrubbed and scrubbed and tried grout cleaner and bleach and sealant and everything under the sun. From here on out, "It's not dirty, it's supposed to be that color!"

Here's mine. The tile isn't light, but the grout is surely dirt color! I think it's Hydroment Taupe.

Kevin, thank you very much for your professional "rant." After all your years of experience, you're entitled to it! I believe what you say, but does using that color grout mean you can't use a lightish color tile? I don't want to end up with a "plaid" looking floor, light rectangles outlined in dark. Do you like the quality of the Customs brand, or is it something about that color grout you like? And what are the pros and cons of sanded and nonsanded grout?

Buehl, I like the look of the Vecchia Corte tile in beige, and your running bond arrangement is similar to what I have in mind. I'm hoping to find slightly larger rectangles.

BKO, I know what you mean about the boys' bathroom floor. It's depressing to install something new only to see that happen to it!

bluekitobsessed, "dirty colored grout fanclub" -- LOL! There's wisdom in that!

We have 16x24 limestone with a light grout color. It's been just over a year and the grout and limestone still looks great. We have had many spills and it has wiped up with no serious staining of the limestone or the grout. We sealed the floors when it was installed and will re-seal again shortly.

Here is a picture:

The above photo is a good example of how, in a residential setting, grout cleaning can be a light task.

I'm surprised nobody knows about light household steam cleaners with attachments and nozzles. Search on "stem cleaner" + "dust mite" and you'll find out a lot. Then, using the nozzle on grout is an easy step. If you search on steam and grout together, you may get information about serious commercial grease and grime cleaning, not the situation in a residential household setting.

Everything said above in favor of dirt-colored grout is good information, valid info, true too. Good for planning for others who have no pre-set idea of light beige tiles with light colored grout. I like epoxy grout in light colors. I also have regular portland-cement sanded grout in a light tan color too.

David

Egganddart49-

Thank you for your kind words! I get kind of cranky from time to time,
and today has been a cranky day for sure (not yours or anyone else's fault
here on GW - just too much heavy lifting with a bad back after 30 years in
this business.. but don't get me started!!) HA!

Anyways - Yes - you can use a lighter colored tile with "Light Smoke", but the
grout will create a bit more contrast and yes, you will see the "plaid" thingy
a bit more (in my opinion)...

The Customs "Brand" is way more prevelant out here in Arizona and as you go
farther west. I like the quality of the material, but if you can get Hydroment - use it also - I have NEVER had a failure using Hydroment - it's THAT good...
come to think of it - I have NEVER had a failure using Customs EITHER - so
EITHER ONE WILL WORK for you fine!!!!

As far as sanded vs non-sanded - sanded joint fillers are designed for joints that are 1/8 " wide and/or wider. Non-Sanded joint filler (aka "dry grout") is designed for use with tile that has a joint width of 1/8" OR LESS ... The sand that's added into the "sanded" mix helps the joint filler keep from cracking
when it's in a joint that is 1/8" or more in width......

The difference is purely for shrinkage of the joint filler.
ALSO - I think I just wrote this about a week or two ago:

Sanded joint filler can scratch the face of the tiles - so check the tile FIRST - before
you apply ANY sanded joint filler - many times your Distributor can help tell you
what kind of glaze the tile has, and which kind of softness or hardness the glaze has,
and what kind of service reccomendations the manufacturer has for the tile's use. eg: high traffic, light residential, wall use only, etc...

hope that helps ya!!!!

kevin

davidro, a few questions about these great sounding steam cleaners, and their use on grout:
1) For one who does have a pre-set idea of light beige tiles with light colored grout, (me), will a dry steam cleaner do the trick? I'm very interested in these machines, they sound right up my alley.

2) Do they work on grout that's been stained/dirty for a long time?

3) And as far as epoxy vs. regular grout, does it clean equally well on both? (if so, why bother with epoxy? It's main draw is its supposed ease of cleaning.)

4) What about sanded vs. unsanded grout? Does it clean them equally well?

5) Lastly, is yours a "dry steam" cleaner, or the kind that uses more water leaves the surface wet?

Kevin, one reason you're cranky is you're up too late :) I know that does it to me! Thanks again for the helpful information. I didn't know that about the sanded grout. Being in NY, I'll look for Hydroment. Take care of your back!

jtsgranite, that's very encouraging, thanks. It looks brand new. Do you by any chance have kids or dogs or a flair for mess? If so, I'd be sold.

1 yes 2 yes 3 yes 4 yes 5 yes; so it seems you would do well with unsanded. Epoxy is hard to work with and has a short working time.

-dr

Thanks for answering so quickly, David. I'm very encouraged.

Why are we up so late?

egganddart49 - no small children or pets, just us and 2 older kids. We do a lot of living in the kitchen and so far the light color grout has held up well.

I understand your concerns, especially with pets.

Davidro, I've been looking online at steam cleaners. Vaporetto makes a lot of models -- which one do you have, or think is adequate? I'm looking to buy the least expensive dry steamer that does a good job. There are other brands, like Ladybug and WhiteWing -- do you know anything about them?

Thanks.

My tiles look similar to Buehl's, mine are porcelain. My grout is disgusting...I'd never had light colored grout again. Two adults, 3 pets...but most of the really bad grout is in front of the stove, sink, and dishwasher, where my DH never notices when he spills any thing (he's the chief cook!). That said, we just had porcelain tile with a little darker grout installed in our new master bath, and I'm just going to be a fanatic about keeping it clean.
I did post a question on the cleaning forum a while ago ab out cleaning really gross grout. Krud Cutter was mentioned, as was another product whose name I have forgotten, it wasn't availabe in stores in southeastern MA where I live...

I got so excited about the steam cleaner reviews I read (I know, I'm weird) that I ordered one last night. I'm going to use it on the old and dirty grout of other floors in the house. If it cleans as well as they say it will, I'll order the stone I like. If not, I'll have to come up with another idea for the floor.

BTW, I ordered a White Wing steamer. I'll let you know how it works out. I'm not by any means a hyper-clean oriented person, but I don't like to use chemical cleaners. If this thing works, it'll be great!

Thanks Davidro, for the idea.

Good thinking to see steam in action first. It is hard to imagine how good it is before seeing it.

A small nozzled brush attachment is good for grout lines; with that, the steam has already cooled down if you brush your hand by only 1/8" to 1/4" away. If you run it without any attachments, you risk hurting yourself as the steam needs a nozzle calibrated to let only a small amount out.

In all the attachments the steam that comes out is a minor amount of water. What concentrated steam does is loosen "dirt" molecules so it comes off, and the steam even partially breaks it down (into simpler organic compounds). If you keep going over the same area again and again you will warm the tiles and they will be wet too. Passing once or twice over any flat surface does not leave water behind, but in general they do not recommend using it on delicate surfaces; use your judgement once you get used to it. To wrap (diaper) the flat attachments I have tried using J cloth material, cotton, linen, swiffer material, etc. They are all good. They all let steam through and soak up the dirt. Thin towel material tends to soak up the steam but it still lets some through too so it works too.

I should have video'd my first time. One day someone will do that and post it on YouTube. It's either fascinating or disgusting depending on how much you are involved in keeping things clean, and how hard you have tried to clean things before discovering steam cleaners.

David

David, thanks for the attachment info. I don't understand the use of cloths, but a video comes with the steamer, so I'm sure it'll explain. I know what you mean by fascinating/disgusting! I can't wait to try it....

Update, 2015: I did install an off white (stone-look) glazed porcelain tile with an off white grout in 2009. The grout has held up well! It gets darker (dirty) as time goes on, and I've scoured it with a scrub brush and cleanser. It cleans right up, is much cleaner and lighter afterwards. After about a year it starts looking darker and I do it again.

How did the steamer work? I'm guessing not good if you're using a scrub brush and cleaner.

2015 Update for us: I can't say the same as Dab07. Our grout did not stand the test of time. It's stained and while I can get a bit lighter if I get on my hands and knees and scrub the grout lines, it doesn't get nearly as light as it once was and still looks dirty after scrubbing. I now regret it b/c I can see where the grout is still light under the toekicks and in the corners of the Kitchen, PR, and Foyer and then I see the dark, stained grout in the rest of the areas. My DH doesn't care, but I do!

There have been advancements in grout technology since then. Fusion Pro, Flexcolor CQ, Plasma, Bostik urethane and Spectralock are all virtually stain proof and require far less cleaning than the old ceement based grouts.

If you check the above posts, you will see that my grout has no cement.

"...Grout: StarQuartz/Quartz-Lock (urethane based grout that contains no epoxy, no cement and no pigments), color Mushroom..."

The steamer cleans the tile well. The tile imitates an old stone floor, so has pits in the surface and grout joints that are wide, deep and uneven. The steamer gets the surface pits clean. We don't spend a lot of time on the grout, just whisk the wand over the floor. If we did, it might do a better job on the grout. As it is, though, it stays clean enough considering the difficulty and color. We track a lot of dirt in here, between firewood and having a busy garden operation.

As far as the new grouts, I grouted a bathroom tile floor upstairs with an epoxy grout. It might have been Laticrete, but I'm not sure. That grout was a very light off-white and it got pretty dirty. Outside of the kitchen it's a shoes-off house, so I was surprised. I was naive thinking it didn't GET dirty, rather than it was supposed to be easier to clean (dumb). By the time I realized how dark it had gotten it had been years. The steamer wasn't able to clean it well. I used a 1' diameter brush but it took so long I probably could have cleaned it faster with cleanser and a scrub brush.

I haven't tried the steamer on anything else.