You have the range or cooktop on what appears to be an inside wall. Can you run a vent straight up through the ceiling and out the roof? If not you may want to move the stove to an outside wall so you can vent it out. They do make recirculating vents but it is far better to vent to the outside. If you are starting with a blank slate, it would seem that this should be a priority.

Yes, I can vent it up and out the roof. There is no gas line to our area, so it will be an electric range. Thanks, though, good question :)

When you say worktable, do you mean something counter height that will look more like a table than an island? Since you have an eating area right off the kitchen, you probably don't need much seating at the kitchen table itself. On the other hand, depending on your family size and entertaining style, you may want to have another table to pull down to the dining one for when you have more people.

Can you put the dimensions on your drawing? Your design looks workable to me, but there are experts here that will have better comments that I as far as the layout.

I love your inspiration pics and I agree, the table cloth has to go.

OK another thought-- your refrigerator is pretty close to the sink. I'm wondering if you might put the diswasher where you have the book case and let the counter next to the sink go to the wall. Would give you more workspace there to unload the dishwasher and also room for cabinets to put the dishes away ---close to where you are unloading them. You can build an enclosure and have a built-in refrigerator so that it looks integrated into the room.

Sayde, I think you meant to put the refrigerator where the bookcase is? It may be a bit of a walk to the sink area, but definitely would free up counter space.

Homechef- I really want a work table (table height) for the center of my kitchen. I love to be able to sit...right in the middle of the kitchen...and I think all great country kitchens have a work table. My mom has a similar set up and it works great, especially when visiting kids want to help bake cookies, etc. It also gives them a place to eat cookies and milk, without spilling stuff on my pretty french tablecloths :)

The dimensions are each square = 1 foot. The kitchen is 13' wide and 22' long, if you count the woodstove area. Right now, it's a separate dining room and very small kitchen, but the wall between them is not load bearing, so I plan to tear it down! LOL

Sayde- There should be upper cabinets on either side of the stove, too (oops). With the upper cabinets on either side of the sink and the hutch in the dining area/former porch (a big one like my inspiration picture) there should be plenty of room for dish storage. It's just me and my husband, but where people come to visit, I want to be able to expand the table and seat more people. My drawing shows the more expanded version :)

I don't think my chairs and ottoman are quite to scale...they would probably take up more room. It's hard to read, but the fridge is at one end of cabinets and the oven/microwave is on the other.

Do you have secondary pantry storage in the kitchen proper? It seems like a hike to go through and around the dining room to get to the proposed pantry.

Lavender, looking at all your inspiration pix, it seems like buttery yellow + french blue are your favorite color combo, with a light colored wood. In picture 1, there is not much of a kitchen there, so I think your inspiration clearly comes out of non-glossy, matte surfaces and orange tree and the colors of all the furnishings there. You could use this theme for your inspiration theme to create a nice modern kitchen with a country feel!

Regarding your work table, you could do a work table with a solid surface or butcher block countertop. Does not have to be polished stone -- can be a stained concrete top in your favorite color that matches with the tablecloth in your inspiration kitchen! Or try looking for ceaserstone-likes with a matte, honed finish in a color similar to that one.

You can use a dwarf potted citrus (e.g. kumquat, I have one in a pot in my yard, with fruits the size of olives)as an accent in your kitchen, just like the picture.

I love your current kitchen and plan to open it to the DR. My only thought was to see if the pantry access can be relocated to the kitchen itself -- so as to avoid a tour via DR. I haven't analyzed the plan from functionality perspective but we have some real masters here who can do a much better job!

BTW I love the idea of having two lounging chairs with ottomans and the wooden stove in the kitchen. Perfect for enjoying a quiet sip of coffee while working!!

HTH.

Thank you for the responses :)

Homeybird- Great idea about replicating the fruit tree!

The walk-in pantry (about 10' x 6') is right behind the hutch, in the dining room. So, it's just walk past the fridge, around the corner...and there's the pantry. I have the same distance now and it works out great...but this will be a much bigger pantry!

The seating area by the stove is one of my favorite parts of the kitchen plan, too. I saw something similar in a Sarah Susanka book.

Re woodstove:

I noted that you don't have gas in your area (nor are planning to have propane), so I'm assuming this is a real woodburning stove?

You haven't allowed nearly enough room for a w/s and the mandatory clearances from combustible surfaces, particularly in a corner installation.

As you may recall I heat my home with a w/s in my present kitchen (and one of my prime motivations for moving my kitchen to another room is getting my cooking space away from the the immoveable w/s). But, if it's something that appeals to you, that's great.

However, I am also a former volunteer firefighter and a wood-stove burner of more than 4 decades, so fire safety is something I can't ignore.

So, here are some basics: woodstoves must usually be at least 18-28" away from combustible wall materials. Combustible materials are materials that are used in ordinary walls, like sheetrock, wall studs within the walls, etc. In corner installations the clearances apply to any part of the w/s, not just the back surface.

You can't just apply a non-combustible material as an overlay. If the non-combustible material touches the combustible surface, it will transfer the heat to the underlying materials.

One of the problematic things about wood stove hearth placements is that safe installation requires the darn things to stand pretty far out into the room (when looked at from a purely decorative point of view).

Steady doses of high heat over time will lower the burning point of materials, increasing the dangers.

You can decrease the required clearance distances only by using approved heat shields on the back and sides (and underneath, if necessary) of the stove. You can further decrease the clearances from combustible materials by using wall shields on wall surfaces in some, but not in all, circumstances, particularly with corner installations.

Wall shields are tricky to decorate around. (I can decribe ours,if needed.)

I don't know if you are planning a mantle on the wall over the stove. There are also distances from top surface of stove to underside of combustible mantle distances to take into account.

You also need to consider chimney placement as you appear to have the w/s placed along an interior partition. What's above it, beside it and how will you service the necessary (twice-yearly or more) chimney maintenance? And what type of a chimney are you planning? Woodstove chimneys (as opposed to direct vent gas vents) are of necessity critical, sometimes expensive, propostitions. Wood stoves can't share a chimney stack with any other furnace, fireplace, etc. Proper draft requires careful placement on the roof top.

Before you get too far along, I'd get some manufacturer's literature (and go to websites) to get the clearance distance data for the stoves you're intersted in. Then talk to some local installers about your chimney placement options and materials.

Each w/s willl have detailed info about the clearances in each type of installation. These are not guidelines, but legally required for safety. Unlike the NKBA distances, fudging them could have tragic consequences. Not all stoves have heat shields, and not all stoves can be used w/wall shields.

Smaller stoves don't necessarily have much smaller clearances, as they get just as hot.

Another thing you may want to think about is fencing around the w/s to protect very young children (visitors, grans, etc, if not your own) and pets. Although I have always had pets w/o a problem, a few years ago I adopted a cat who has a bad habit of jumping up on the 650F top surface of the stove, with appalling results. She's done it more than once, so now we have to keep a four foot tall fence around the stove in order to spare her the agony of burnt paws -and ourselves the very expensive vet bills.

(Just for kicks, I just measured the clearance distance from the back surface of our w/s, a Vermont Casting Defiant Encore. The back is roughly 19" out from the wall, with both back and wall shields in place. Without those it would be much farther out. And that's just for an installation along a flat wall. You also need to think of what hearth protection area you have under and in front of the w/s. The encroachment into the room of the w/s is one of the major reasons I'm moving the kitchen to get away from it, no matter how atmospheric it may seem.)

Another thing to think about is whether/how to use an outside air connection. I highly recommend it, if you can, as it diminishes the draftiness a w/s causes- and lowers the cost of running a w/s to the rest of your heating system.

I'll let others more qualified than I answer the layout questions. Have you tried using a work table? I grew up with them and initially wanted the same thing, but I found I disliked them in reality, after setting one up and using it for a few months.

HTH

L

Good point on the woodstove. Honestly, I just tossed the woodstove and chairs/ottoman in to give people an idea of what I wanted to do with the space.

The lower wall is exterior and I probably would run the pipe out that way. As for combustible surfaces, I figured we can install whatever we need to, since it's going to be ripped down to the studs and redone.

Obviously, we have to meet all safety requirements (half of our town, which is very small, is the volunteer fire department, so they'll make sure I'm up to code LOL) but this is not a woodstove to heat the house. This is more of a backup, in case the power goes off and I have to cook or just a nice fire for a few hours in the evening.

Thanks for the info :)

L- Sorry, I meant to say...your poor kitty!

I'm looking for one of those small, dark blue, woodstoves, that has the little "burner" on top, for a tea kettle. That's about all the room it has, so hopefully, if I leave a tea kettle on, there isn't room for anything else.

I like the kind with the glass door and the little gothic trim. Again, it's only big enough to heat up water or warm up something canned...but that can make a big difference, when the power goes out.

L-L,

My kitty is fine, now, thank you; but it was pretty horrifying when it happened. Luckily I happened to be standing right there so I could snatch her off in an instant. The second time it happened, we realized we couldn't count on her learning from experience!

I know exactly what sort of stove you are thinking about, as that describes my taste in stoves, as well.

One of your comments caught my eye, though. You mentioned that the lower part of the wall is exterior so you were planning to

"...run the pipe out that way. As for combustible surfaces, I figured we can install whatever we need to, since it's going to be ripped down to the studs and redone."

It's not that simple, alas. Unless you were thinking of one of the direct venting gas or pellet "wood" stoves.

Which for the kind of light use you're descrbing might be a very good idea for a couple of reasons:

Direct venting is very easy, basically you just poke hole in the wall and out it goes, with no need for a chimney stack that goes upto the roof and beyond.

Secondly, both gas and pellet burners are simple, off/on devices (some even are controlled with TV-like clickers.) This is quite an advantage over a woodburing appliance which doesn't shift from on to off vey easily.

Thirdly, this ease of control makes adjusting to living with one simpler as you have to give it very little thought.

Fourth, many are quite adorable, with very life-like flames visible through glass doors with Gothick-y arches. (Some models are quite ugly, though, IMO.)

You can keep tea warm on them, but probably not boil water (Boiling a pot on a woodstove is not a swift proposition, either, even on a large one at full tilt-burn. Imagine boiling water in an oven to get an idea what it might be like.)

And, the lower surface temps of d/v gas and pellet burners mean both smaller clearances and safety. We also have a pellet stove and some of the cats sleep on it, safely, while it is burning.

Of course, there are no free lunches, so here are the drawbacks: I think all pellet, and perhaps most gas burners need electricty to run feed motors and/or circulation and exhaust fans, so they're little help during power outages. They are almost all forced air heaters, which has a very different quality from the radiant heating of a cast-iron wood stove. (Though there are people who decry the super hot and dry air from cast iron wood stoves, too.) The fuels (even the wood pellets) are not as environmentally benign as plain wood. You can't run them with open doors, for the occasional toasting of marshmallows and weiners in winter.

We like our pellet stove and use it in the early and late season (and of course, also through the winter, too) since it is more adjustable than firing up the woodstove for just a few hours.

Burning a woodstove, safely, requires a mental vigilance and an on-the-ball attutude that can not be over emphasized. I think many people imagaine that just because they don't plan to burn ther woodstove for all their heat, that their focus may be lessened. Indeed, it's the other way around. Once we light the stove, it burns continuously for four or five months so you kind of fall into the groove of attending to its needs (the least of which is the fuel.) Mostly it needs attention to the state of its burn, and constant care to make sure that it is running safely, and in control. I find the greatest time for user-driven problems is at the fringes of the burning season, when the stove is on again/off again. Too easy to forget that you've lit it and wander away while it's kindling! Only to race back in a panic and find a roaring fire that needs careful slowing, and anxious waiting to make sure it's back under control. Just slagging a couple of logs into an already lit fire every few hours, is much easier to manage.

Anyway, those are the principal differences between wood and "other fuel" stoves.

Smallness of a woodstove will not lessen the need for the intense care all woodstoves need.

You mentioned "taking it back to the studs". That's the point I was trying to make: you don't just take it back to the studs, studs are combustible! The wall must be recreated with non-combustible (NOT the same as fire-resistant/retardant) materials, and the chimney must go up from there higher than your roof (to height that is at least 2 feet taller than the nearest part of your house within a ten foot radius) however it gets there. (There are double-walled (metal-'bestos, is the slang-y common name for the material) metal chimneys available that are entirely exterior and run up outside of the house on stand-offs (you often see them on trailers), but these are ugly, draw less than perfectly and have creosote problems.

When you can not get a non-combustible wall, then you need to look at the clearance distances for "non-protected surfaces", which as I mentioned are greater than with heat protectors of stove and wall surfaces.

Since you are at the planning stage, and keen on having a stove, then this is the time to research and decide what kind of stove (and all the subsequent venting/exhaust decisions that ensue from the choice). If you really want to have a stove, then now is your only chance to work it into your plans. Trying to find a good solution after you start placing the rest of your kitchen stuff around will be much less successful.

If having the a woodstove is very desirable, then work on that decision, first. It will save you much trouble.

From your description, I think I know the sort of stove you're imgaining. I'll see if I can find some dimensions (stove and clearances) to give you a ballpark idea, for planning purposes.

Would an alternate postion for whatever stove you choose be out in the porch? There are possible chimney issues with that, too, but it might be easier. It's awfully nice to eat by a fire.

L-L,

I went looking for cute, smallish, blue-enameled, gothic-arched wood stoves and found this one which may fit the bill:

http://www.jotul.com/en-us/wwwjotulus/Main-menu/Products/Wood/Wood-stoves/Jotul-F-3-CB/

This stove is not the smallest, but typical. Its top dimensions are (rounded up) 23" wide and 15" front to back.

At a minimum it needs a space in a corner wide enough so that you could run a line 45" long between the walls of the corner. (Obviously, this is on a diagonal!) This would be safe only if you had both heat shield on the stove (as it happens this stove has one, standard) AND along the walls into the corner. Without the shield this line could be as long as 63". What this line represents is a line that would run along the back of the top of the stove and extending on each side to the walls, with all the mass of the stove sticking out into room in front of it (in this case a further 15"). Take a measuring tape and lay it on the floor to see where the stove would fall in your corner. (You could do it with graph paper, too, just cut out a length of graph paper that shows three and three-quarter squares -45"- or five and a quarter -63"- and see where it falls in the corner. Then you can sketch the rough dimensions of this stove. Don't forget to plan for hearth (floor) protection that runs under the stove and extends a further 16" in front of it.)

If you decided to put it along the wall (between the chair and corner) the clearances to the wall would vary from 6" (with all protections in place) to 25" with only stove shield in place. And that's to the back of top of stove.

There are other stoves which may have slightly smaller requirements since they are smaller in size, but the clearances won't change much.

BTW, this one is a very nice stove, from a top-notch manufacturer. We are just about to replace our 20 y.o. Vermont Castings with a Jotul Oslo, much bigger because we need larger size, and not a catalytic as we have become dissatisfied with that technology.

Attached to this link is a quick-loading pdf (scroll to bottom and click on Manual) with all the chimney and installation info you need to work with for this one. You can also click to see other models.

Another manufacturer with Victorian-ish stoves is Vermont Castings (vermontcastings.com).

BTW, are you set on enamel, rather than paint? Enamel is not very durable.

Also, the "cooking plate" isn't really, though marketed as that. Yes, I have "cooked" on it, in desperation during the week-long power outages we sometimes get here in the north country. But it's not fun. Even though the center piece is milled off to look like a cooking griddle/hob (a la AGA) and you could technically use it as a griddle, you won't after the first use due to the greasy, smelly mess it makes. Warm brewed tea, soup or stew, melt butter (in covered pot), hot-up ceramic dinner roll baskets, heat dinner plates (very briefly or they will get too hot), simmer spices or other effusion for the scent, but definitely don't plan on culinary efforts more difficult than sticking a couple of hot dogs on a long fork and opening the top and and roasting 'em. The griddle-on-the-top thing is pretty much too protect the center surface, and for marketing purposes (mostly, the later I think.)

HTH
L

Here is a link that might be useful: Link to pretty blue stove with gothic arches

L- That little Jotul is perfect! That's what I was thinking of using, in the enamel dark blue.

One of the nice things about remodeling an old farmhouse...is that almost anything is possible. I'm keeping the plan fairly small, since the structure needs so much work.

The woodstove could go in the corner, the flat wall to the outside, I could build an actual chimney/fireplace type set up and have the woodstove hooked to that, etc. So, this is the time to find out what would be best for safety...price can come later.

Not that I have unlimited funds, but it's a pretty small house...this kitchen area is the complete original part of the old farmhouse...the addition from the 1950s has the living room, with a bedroom and bath behind it. Anyway, I'd rather have it small and what I want, than large with rooms I don't use that often.

I've thought about putting an actual fireplace in the kitchen (so romantic) but I thought a woodstove might be more practical. What do you think?

Yes, you could have the stove parallel to the exterior wall and set somewhat apart from the wall along the hallway. I don't still have the pdf about the clearances, but you could look it up and see if will fit.

Two issues immediately occur: how far out into the passageway would the stove and its hearth protection zone sit and would that be acceptable? And since its right hand edge would (as you looked at from the center of the kitchen) extend towards the window. You don't want it cover the window or trim. It might be very drafty because of the window and you'd have to forgo curtains which would probably be too close to the stove for safe clearance.

But you could do it. And W/R/T the diff. between a regular fireplace, woodstoves are easier to live with and a positive gain of heat. Fireplaces are big heat losers.

Now you have to think of what the chimney would look like from the outside. The hallway is your front hall, right? So there's a front door there, no? Is your house a centerhall with the roof ridge running at right angles to the stairs, or is it a gable front style farmhouse? Both offer design (decor) challenges for having a chimney right near the formal door, and also chimney locating issues related to the roof since it has to stick up higher than anything around, or it won't draft well and your house will be perennially smokey and miserable. Can you make a little sketch of the exterior there (just outline is fine) in order to think about what style and where a chimney should go?

L

L- Actually, it's an old farmhouse, which I want to make look more like a farmhouse/cottage. Right now, the front door is where I want to put the stove. There's 8' to the right of this area, where the stairs are...and I want to move the front door over to that area. It's a funny little house, since the part I've drawn, plus the 8' to the right is the original part of the house from 1904. In the 1950s an addition was put on, which is about 18' wide and has the living room in front and the bedroom/bath behind it.

So, the front of the house is a gable over the old part of the house, with the addition coming out perpendicular...so if you wanted to you could add dormers to it. Does that make sense?

Anyway, I want to put a vestibule on the front of the 8' and bring it out an additional 4' or so, for the entry. If I put the fireplace chimney in the corner, the way I have it on the plan, it would look like one of those really cute cottages, with the bump out foyer and the big chimney just to the left...with the corner windows to the left of that.

Then the windows on the porch/dining room will look like a little added on sunroom, set back and to the left of the corner windows. On the other side of the entry (the living room) there is a big front window, with a brick fireplace and chimney on the side of the house.

It's nothing (right now) like the big mid-west farmhouses people think of, when they think farmhouse. It's a little house, which was added on to, but it has a nice fireplace in the addition (built by my husband's uncle) and a basement underneath...with a family room. The area under the old part of the house is just a cellar/storage area, with the furnace, I believe.

The addition was built by my husband's great-uncle, so if we can keep it in one piece, the family would really be happy. It's just me and my husband, but we have a lot of people visit, especially in the summer, on the weekends. We also have some football parties and other things going on in the fall, but in the winter, too much snow and too far from town, to host holiday dinners, etc.

{{gwi:1976106}}

I'm also planning to ditch my boring old island in favor of a table. I've been looking for an old farm table, and plan to put darling Provencal stools under it (maybe with rush seats and little cushions in the French fabric shown in some of your inspiration pix), and MAYBE put white marble on it, depending on what I end up with. Ebay has some good old farm tables.

I think what you have going looks great.

Can you share where to buy those blue and white canisters?

I love your description. The stools would be so cute! The marble top is a great idea :)

I can't decide if I want a slightly taller table, or an actual island, but something simple, maybe with a few apron drawers and a shelf would be great...if I could still get the stools up to it.

Here's the link to the canisters. Hope you get them...let me know how you like them!

Here is a link that might be useful: French Canisters

Thanks for the drawing--it has calmed my fears after reading other posts by you about your dream kitchen. I can imagine working in here.

Has anyone mentioned the need for wood storage indoors? Although the woodpile is the main wood storage, there needs to be a direct route from woodpile to a plunk spot for the wood indoors.

We have a wood stove in living room, in part to burn up wood from our yard. We use an old large copper cauldron for our wood holder--it's huge and I retire it to the garage in summer so that I can recover some space in the room. Also, the area below a stove needs to fit code. Talk to your building inspectors before making a plan. Otherwise you may end up with a deep lip of brick or tile that intrudes in places you didn't anticipate and you may need a railing on one side if it's adjacent to a walk space. Also, the area in vicinity of a wood stove needs to be sweepable, even if it's outside the code-mandated nonburnable floor. Wood debris is unavoidable.

You may want to look at images of second homes, lake places, etc. for your practical inspirations. These places have to deal with such issues and they often have a 'country' feel (ignore the kitschy ones).

As for the island/table, I urge a movable large cart. You can remove it and put in a table at times if you need to and you can pull it to your work area for a secondary surface or put it out for buffet serving. For most days, you already have a table very near on porch that will be more useful for enjoying that cup of coffee and a book or newspaper and you can decorate that space as gleefully as you like. I've thought a lot about the table in your inspiration picture and all it says to me is 'I'm not ready to go to work.' That's not a message I want in my kitchen. I need an inviting blank work surface that I can mess up with my cooking activity, then clean off and leave ready for next time. I hate it when I have debris in my work space from the last project or stuff plunked there that is off-topic for my current mania.

I'm putting a nook/resource center into the corner of my kitchen but I won't share photos yet, except this early one. We'll have a full floor to near-ceiling 6 foot wide bookcase, perhaps small antique drop leaf table and chairs, and some funky lighting. No wood stove, but hope it will have ambiance and kooky inviting feel. But it will NOT intrude in my work, it will NOT prevent dinner being served in dining room, and it will allow some softening pieces to cut the modern feel of the rest of the room. It also gives me a non-stool work space if needed (handicap access concept). This antiques and books and art nook is out of the line of fire of the kitchen activities as yours is, but I don't foresee spending much time in it. Better places elsewhere in house for lounging and recreation.

Here is a link that might be useful: roughed in table nook ambiance corner

Florantha- I like you little getaway corner :)

I've been debating about using a taller work table/island, since I do have the table in the porch, now. I think that will let in a lot more light and be a great place to sit and eat, talk, draw, etc.

I would still like the feel of a big worktable, but an island height might be better...and my husband would like some stools. It would give him a place to sit with friends...and I still have the table, nearby, for the nieces and nephews...although, they'll probably like the stools, too.

As for working, I love to bake, so a lounge/kitchen, probably won't deter me a bit! LOL In my current kitchen, I've turned the small dining area into an office and moved the dining table into the front room (also by the kitchen). This means, I can watch the phones, and still bake. Right now, I'm getting ready to make coffeecake muffins, to take up to my mom's for tea, this afternoon :)

I've been looking for a kitchen work table, and I've been having trouble finding something. I loved the Boos jasmine block table, but it's 36" high. The same for the J.K. Adams work table. I'd really like something 30-32. Would anyone have any ideas for where I could find a work table? Or is this something that I would order a drawer, legs and top separately?

Here is a link that might be useful: jasmine block table

Cooking- You might want to start a new post. I know other people on the forum like work tables and I'm sure they could give you some great ideas :)

Thanks for the tip! You'll see me posting in a minute :)