Bracing Undermount SS Sink AFTER Install?

10 years ago

I had a Caesarstone countertop installed yesterday. I just was about to take out to the recycling the cardboard box that the ss undermount sink came in when I heard something rattling inside. It was the brackets and screws. That concerned me. So I read the Installation guide, that was also still in the box, and verified that they are supposed to be used. I then (wish I had done this BEFORE the install....) did an internet search on how undermount sinks are supposed to be installed.

First of all, it doesn't appear that a plywood base was applied. Secondly, the only thing holding the sink in place appears to be the epoxy and four pieces of 2 x 1 wood around the perimeter (but not the entire perimeter) of the sink. They are glued (epoxied?) to the stone. No screws or anything like that anywhere to be seen. They did properly temporarily secure the sink from above.

From what I have read here on GW, I think I should be worried about the sink holding on for more than a few years. Also worried about the unsupported counter elsewhere in the kitchen. Now, it is a small kitchen, so the longest span of unsupported counter is 57" x 23". Should I be worried about that as well?

The only thing comforting me is the fact that my prior countertop which was laminate also was not supported by plywood, so maybe my concern about unsupported caesarstone elsewhere in the kitchen is unjustified. But I am still concerned about the sink.

So - any advice anyone? Is there anything that I can do, or have done PROFESSIONALLY, to rectify this sink situation?

Ugh. Why can't anything ever just be simple? And I really wish I had researched beforehand how this is supposed to be done. Mea culpa...

Thanks in advance!!

Featured Answer

PRO

Joseph Corlett, LLC

10 years ago

I promise you your sink is coming down as mounted. I recommend the installation of a Hercules Universal Sink Harness available at Braxton Bragg. Undermounted sinks must be mechanically fastened; silicone and/or adhesives is not enough.

I have reinstalled at least 20 sinks for this reason. Hopefully, you haven't paid in full yet.

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Comments (10)

acdcstrang
Original Author
10 years ago
Thanks Trebruchet. You mentioned that you have "reinstalled at least 20 sinks for this reason". Out of curiosity - what is your profession? Are you a fabricator?
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Here's the problem (as I see it) when using screws on 2CM stone: The stone is too thin to support the weight of the screw fittings that are imbedded into the stone at least 3/8 of an inch or more. This weakens (structurally) the stone around where the the screw has been drilled, and because you are adding tension (load of the weight of the sink, PLUS the garbage disposal, PLUS the "pull" from the plumbing pipes that are tightened to the sink drain) you are asking for a failure. Yes - you CAN use the screws - But I only would do them using 3CM stone (it's thicker and can disperse the weight & tension load a bit easier) BUT - even then - I'd use some kind of "cradle" that supports the sink from underneath.... A KD that "laughs at the suggestion of an alternate means of installation" is only showing his or her ignorance of newer methods of doing things better. Your Fabricator that told you that you will not be able to change your sink out in the future if you use screws - is IMHO- half right - there is still a chance that you can change out the sink - it'll depend on the sink that you use and the cabinet interior dimensions - allowing you to manipulate the sink in order to remove it and replace it with another - or not..... I really LOVE any kind of "cradle" system that supports the sink - from UNDERNEATH - rather than relying on "hanging it from the underside of the stone - Structurally - the "cradle philosophy" is more sound and will work far better for you that using screw that will "hang" the sink from the stone putting pressure and tension on the stone assembly - eventually leading to a potential fracture scenario.. I've been doing this gig for a LONG time (25+ years) and I get to visit "failure" scenarios all the time - done by guys that didn't know any better, wanted to be "the cheapest guy doing the job" or the KD's that "laughed at their customers and said that no-way would their company would support such an idea" - that is until I write my report - based on MIA specs and reference that HAD a "cradle" type method of support been used - the failure would not have taken place. Then...... the KD isn't laughing any more....... especially when they have to do a "rip out and replace"....... Bottom line - laughing at sound advice can be expensive!!! especially for ignorant KD's just my .02 cents worth...... hth kevin
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Josh has been gone the last two days working on 2 installs. I asked him about this and he said that the fabricator should have created a jig with enough pitch to it like he had mentioned earlier and then used that to cut the runnels. It's completely doable to go back and re-cut the runnels IF you have enough space on your countertop to hold the jig since it needs to be clamped down and it can be on the large side. My parents wanted to add runnels 6 months after we installed their kitchen but they had strange angles around their sink. We couldn't fit the jig in tight enough to get the runnels straight. I would push to see if he can fix them.. he charged a lot of money for them.. and they should be done right and be able to channel the water properly. Below is a picture of runnels that show a pretty decent pitch. Hope this helps
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coco4444
10 years ago
My undermount Blanco sink 'sunk' 11 months after install. I was told my installer didn't see it happen often, but that the few times they had it was that the special adhesive does not stick perfectly to the ultra smooth polished surface of these sinks (told the issue was Blanco specific, I'm not sure if that was just a line or not). Anyway, fabricator (in my case it was Cambria) came out on a long weekend and rigged up the following.. Been 1.5 years now with no issues.

Like you, I wish I'd thought/known before hand. But there is an aftermarket fix, whether it's the one listed by the above poster or this one:

This post was edited by Co-Co on Sun, Nov 10, 13 at 22:25
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PRO
Joseph Corlett, LLC
10 years ago
"Thanks Trebruchet. You mentioned that you have "reinstalled at least 20 sinks for this reason". Out of curiosity - what is your profession? Are you a fabricator?"

I am a Certified Corian Fabricator/Installer and a Certified Zodiaq Installer, but I sold that business over a decade ago. I do surface restoration work these days, solid surface and stone mostly.

I have had to install over 20 HUSHs because in their greed to get a low price on granite, homeowners went with a fabricator who wasn't charging them enough to make any money. Now they have to pay me to reinstall their sink because the guy who installed it is out of business.

They weren't sold the more time consuming and therefore more expensive radiused edge at the sink cut out either, which keeps me busy filling chips and reprofiling the edge too.

That is the Hercules Universal Sink Harness pictured above. My method of installation is better than those in the instructions. If anyone is interested, let me know.
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scrappy25
9 years ago
Treb, can you post your method of installation? I would love to see it. thank you!
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brightm
9 years ago
My fabricator didn't know about the HUSH. Having learned about it here, I bought it and had him used it. He was impressed with it and SAYS he'll use them in the future. I'm waiting for someone I know to use him so I can see if he does (or mentions it) without someone else suggesting it.
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janandden2009
7 years ago
Hi Trebuchet we are going to install an undermount double blanco sink into a granite counter top and I have ordered the HUSHA from the US. I see you mentioned above that you have a better method of installing using the HUSH. Would be grateful for any advice.

JE
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PRO
Anglophilia
7 years ago
Did you do your own installation or did you hire someone? If you hired someone, insist they return and do it properly. If you did it yourself, you've now learned why reading instructions is very important.
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janandden2009
7 years ago
It is not in yet. Kitchen being built and cabinets will be delivered May 2017. Getting ready. Will be 3rd we have installed though first with undermounted sink.
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PRO
Joseph Corlett, LLC
7 years ago
This is how I do it.
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Bracing Undermount SS Sink AFTER Install?

Joseph Corlett, LLC

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acdcstrang
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Bracing Undermount SS Sink AFTER Install?

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acdcstrangOriginal Author

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acdcstrang
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