I have a 1948 cape and I am planning a rear extension as well.

Have you already consulted an architect about your ideas? If that wall enclosing your basement stairs is a load bearing wall, I would seriously consider whether it is worth it to remove that wall. That kind of work is very expensive and you will already incurr significant beam expenses to have support where the back of your house currently ends. You may want to leave the walls surrounding the basement stairs door and just remove the bit that jets into the Kitchen area.

Also, I am pitching the roof in the extension part of my dining area to add interest and make it more of a focal point as you enter the room. It is not expensive to do a small roof pitch / cathedral ceiling in a small area and it would have a big impact for your space as you enter from the living room.

I am also doing a similiar style dining area / banquette window seat. For your window wall, you might want to consider catilever construction. With a cantilever, it is my understanding that the small bump out is designed as an overhang. Also, you could flank the window seat with tall cabinets instead of doing cabinetry on the other wall.

Or something like this if you didn't want the angled shape

Then, you could have a peice of furniture buffet under the oval / transom window.

I am also considering a small desk area that can be cleared and used for entertaining. Several GW have been pointing out lately that desks are not as necessary in light of laptops and mobile devices, so I too am struggling with this decision. Another benefit to leaving that as a whole wall is it creates a nice spot for a flat screen tv above the desk / bar and gives you a good spot to put light switches. Good Luck!

dilly- Thanks for posting!

Yes, we did have an architect work on it and also a GC. We are moving the basement stairs to gain some room (in the basement as well). At present they are not lined up below the other set of stairs that lead upstairs. You said, "You may want to leave the walls surrounding the basement stairs door and just remove the bit that jets into the Kitchen area." Which part do you mean?

Pitching the roof sounds fun but we have a bedroom directly above our dining room so how would that work? Or, does it only affect the 7' extension part? (upstairs is staying as is)
Do you have a pic or drawing?

I like the way the cabinetry looks on either side of the window seat. We will think about that in our planning! My only issue would be that then the whole back wall has cabinets. I think having cabinetry on the opposite wall (T to the island) may be more visually pleasing?

Yes, if we leave it a full wall (vs. the half) it may be good usable space. Then there wouldn't be any bar overlooking LR, just a desk area with cabinetry or small TV above. hmmm

Thanks again!

In your first sketch, you have a dotted line wall that separates your Dining room from kitchen / basement stairs. You could eliminate some of the length so that the wall aligns with the basement doorway. This wall is not shown on the second drawing, so I am not sure where the door currently is. In my plans, dotted lines mean existing and to be removed.

I don't have an interior picture of the roof pitch, but here is my plan for the rear extension. My kitchen is on the left and dining area is where you see the three windows. My architect is currently revising my plans to make this section bump out:

Hope this helps!

Here is a link that might be useful: My Cape Extension Layout

Overall, your ideas look really nice, 2littlefishies. I have a single French door to the garden, and it works very well, as well as makes a very nice view down the house. Better than sliders would, I think.

I am concerned about getting all the real-life dimensions in there while you decide what will really look well for you--everything drawn carefully to exact scale and position.

For instance, the fridge. Get the REAL whole thing in there.

The real island stools. Where your family will leave them as they run off.

Above all, the real table and chairs. This is my big concern. I really like the elements you'd like to include in your DRM, but as drawn it will only be about 11 feet wide and function also as a major traffic route. You're already tired of pushing and angling past chairs in a too-narrow space. Is this going to work as nicely as you'd like for your family? I do love your built-ins on the long side wall, but if it were mine I'd use all that space for the big important functions. You're all going to be walking through this extremely busy space constantly, sitting down and getting up from the table constantly, hopping off and on the stools, etc., and IMO there are no extra inches to give away, much less feet.

Another option, though, to keep the built-ins would be to add more space to the DRM from the kitchen side. There is room there to compact and still have a very nice one. The only reason you might need that giant 4x8 island would be to accommodate all those stools, not for working. About the time you need to seat 6 people, maybe just use the table that's right there?

How about mocking the kitchen and DRM up with similar furniture and cardboard as needed and having your family practices living with it before finalizing? In the garage?

Regarding including a built-in desk, to me that's extremely potentially flexible. If you have to sacrifice anything for it, you might consider instead a nice piece of furniture. A 30" wide secretary and hutch, for instance, provides a ton of vertical storage and some real multifunctioning and can be tucked into little spaces here and there around the house as time goes on, 2 separate places if the fancy hits. I've loved built-ins for decades, since I was a teenager literally, but they are extremely inflexible and may not always be best for families whose needs are always morphing to the next stage.

dilly- So is the pitch the triangle above the 3 windows? That looks nice : )
Your plan looks great too! You definitely have more square footage than we do!

Your deck looks similar to ours. Where does that door lead to?

Thanks Rosie! I have to read through again and I'll get back to you with questions : )

Yes, the pitch is over the three windows and my 6 foot extension will feature the pitched ceiling while the original kitchen space will have the 8 foot ceilings. This way, when we walk into the room, your eye will be drawn to this nice area. Your line of sight will also be to the window seat as you enter the room.

There door in the center of the porch leads to my living room. There will also be a sliding door off the side of my dining nook. Actually, your space is bigger then mine as my space is going to be 16x23 and your seems to be 16x28.

dilly-
My drawings are my whole first floor! LR, DR, Kitchen, Master, Full bath

Rosie--
When you say "real life dimensions" are you referring to furniture? I have paper cut outs to exact scale of my dr table, etc.
I thought the walkways in the kitchen were okay. Do you think there's not enough space? As far as island seating it's really the 4 seats on the long side. I want to have the option for two backless stools on the side so that when we eat there as a family we don't have to sit in a straight line. I'm thinking we will be eating at the island, but who knows maybe we should using the dining room We're going to try to keep it not too formal.

I agree the DRM could maybe be a bit wider so I'll work on that. Like I said I don't think we will do the whole wall with the built ins. Someone mentioned doing the built-ins on either side of the window seat instead of the long wall, but I think having them opposite the island is aesthetically more pleasing then having cabinetry all along the back wall of the house. What do you think?
I'm going to really take a look at the DRM. You mentioned using that wall for the big important functions. What do you mean?

Also, I'll think about scaling back the island a bit if necessary! : ) We definitely don't want to feel cramped.

Thanks so much for your feedback!

I agree the built-ins you have designed look really good along the long side wall, which would have to be developed some other way without them. Great functional storage, too, of course. OTOH, bookcases flanking a door have always been a favorite look. They create a stronger transition between in and out, like thick walls do in stone homes, and would be notably shallower than the kitchen cabinets. They could also be a different color.

Dilly, your addition looks really nice. You have some great ideas. 2LittleFishies, would cantilevering serve you in any way on either wall? It can be especially useful for getting around code setbacks, also for tacking an extension onto an existing wall without paying to pour a foundation. Victorian homes very often used them to make room for a built-in sideboard without taking room away from the table and chairs.

You know what, though, I changed my mind--mostly--about the DRM dimensions. I went and measured our own, which has bookcases along 2 sides, and they left about 11-1/3 feet in width. Our current table is 40" across (6-10' long adjustable), which is a serviceable but basic dimension--not wide enough for a big serving platter in the middle or any but narrow centerpieces when entertaining. We can walk around it okay when people are seated, but there's not much extra room at all. I tend to place it slightly closer to the less-traveled side to gain a few inches for the other.

Of note, our table's a dropleaf, collapsed and set against one wall most of the time because my DRM's a traffic corridor connecting the various parts of the house. If I were living with it up daily, with chairs often occupied or left pushed out, etc., I'd want some more inches at least.

Again, I'd mock it all up and live with it before building. I did that with my kitchen, which required a number of gives and takes, grabs and sacrifices, to make it all work, and it was so tremendously successful that I'm a big fan of the method.

You do have two seating issues. The island and the desk/bar.

PEOPLE take about two feet of counter edge, at a minimum, to sit. When seated, they and the stool stick out about two feet beyond the counter edge. Remembering the two foot by two foot square is easy. The scale of the furniture doesn't matter very much. People getting into and out of a chair will use about 32" of aisle temporarily.

It is much more comfortable for adults to have 30" of counter edge.

In the corner of the island with seating on two sides, both people seated in the corner can't actually fit because their legs and the stools' legs will run into each other under the counter - along with their plates, glasses, etc on top. A 15" blank space is needed on one side of the corner for the plates and knees of the person seated at the corner on the other leg.

The chairs in front of the desk/bar and the stools at the island will likely deadlock any aisle access when both are in use.

Rosie & Dilly- Thanks! I don't think we'd want to do a cantilever only b/c we are already getting too far out into the patio with our 7 foot extension and that will take up more space. I do love them though! I am going to ask our builder about the pitch in the roof that dilly is doing! I really like that : )

Our DRM table is 5-8 feet long and the width is 41" wide. I'll work on that area if I can. We will have 12 feet free space total in that center part of the DRM or perhaps instead of a 24" deep buffet we will narrow it a bit.

bmorepanic- I get what you're saying! : ) The only reason we have the two stools is so when we eat as a family of four we don't have to be lined up in a row. So maybe only one of us or us and one the kids will eat on that side. I was going to get stools with backs for the long end and just a push under for the short end. Now I'm actually tempted to just forget seating on the small end. Perhaps we should eat as a family in the DRM if we don't make it too formal. Trying to find a happy medium. Our table is more formal than a kitchen table would be but certainly not VERY formal so we may be able to eat at the DR table for dinner. Our wood chairs have upholstered seats which isn't great with a 5 and 3 year old, but we can always have them reupholstered I guess!
As far as the bar/desk- we are axing that idea. We'll keep that wall as a full wall which is 12' and we'll do pantry, desktop in the middle (no chair), and the double ovens.

Do you all think the placement of the appliances is good?

As long as you're fine with the placement of the pantry, it looks ok. Everything gotta go some place and the only other place would be to trade the ovens and the pantry. Since either placement will still have a little potential issue with oven doors and stools ...

Personally, I would do two on the end with the top about 6 inches wider and use the table. Possibly also use one extra wide position in front of the bar\desk. That way, it would be both children with one adult comfortably, or two kids doing homework or two adults comfortably.

Possibly, get a set of table pads, a couple of inexpensive table cloths and less fitted, washable slips for the chairs. Could be a nice decorating opportunity to get protective surfaces for every day use. We're two adults and we use a flocked, white vinyl pad that they sell at fabric stores underneath a tablecloth. It's fairly impenetrable, unseen and set us back ten whole dollars.

bmorepanic-
What do you mean by the extra wide position. At the island or at the desk? (no longer a bar).

Our DR table has a custom pad over it. I didn't know you could get slip covers for the dr chairs. Are they sold or do I have to have them made?

Just to add my $.02, we had no eat in kitchen when my children were that age. Sadly, their table manners were better then than they are now that we eat (always at a table) in the kitchen! And the dining room in our former house was CARPETED! That was the worst part! You dining room is so close, that with the rooms completely open to each other it will practically become an eat in kitchen. Kids behave better, eat better, and communicate better sitting at a table. Seat covers would be easy to make. I was thinking of something like this (see link below). BTW, my kids now do all homework at the table. We are actually getting rid of island seating (which is never used) for more storage.

I do want to add to what others have said. Your DR built ins really narrow your dining room. What I think bothers me more is the way it makes your window off center. At the very least, I wouldn't take cabinetry all the way to the corner. Use your cut outs and really measure how much space you have to get around the table. If you ask in a separate thread, there are people here that know the recommended allowances.

And I sympathize with this issue. I will have the same problem due to my stubbornness in keeping my beloved grandfather's large table and the deep sideboard I "had" to buy. ;) It probably will be tight between my table and sideboard.

Here is a link that might be useful: cheap seat covers

Extra wide as in make it around 42" long. That' enough clearance for the corner with two seated people and it insures that a stool is never in front of the ovens.

I don't know how much your oven doors stick out when open, but what ever it is, add to that whatever it takes for you to bend over and pull something out of the lower oven (use a lower cabinet or low drawer to get an idea). I stand in front of the oven door, some people stand to the side. I have a range with a big door (21"), 16" is a good measurement for the depth of a person and then I add a little cause I'm tallish and I call it 40-42". Wall ovens might have smaller doors - and you could be petite.

If you have a 54" aisle, then using my example, there is only 12" for a seated person instead of 24" - meaning I could touch them with a hot tray or to be surprised by running into them or their stool unexpectedly and drop whatever I have in my hands. If they try to get out of their seat while I'm trying to get something out of the oven, someone's going to get burnt.

dilly- So is your cathedral ceiling only going to be in part of the room then? I think so. My architect emailed back that he thought the ceiling should all be one height . I 'll have a convo with him and the builder b/c I can see how it could look cool .

controlfreak- Thanks for your input! I think the DR will be more of a dining area that will become much more used than a formal DR. I agree about the window not being centered which I will definitely address. Was also thinking about DR chandelier. I think the chandelier and the window should actually be centered to the open area instead of centered in the room. Also, I think we won't go to the corners of the room with the built ins, but I don't want to form a weird unusable corner closed in by the cabinetry and the window seat either.
Regarding the width of the DR with the cabinetry we'll actually have 12' of open area (not 11') except for the ends where the kitchen cabinetry ends which will be 11'. My mom's DR is 11' wide and it never seems like a problem (although it's a separate room and not a main walk thru area.). I'm going to go measuring everyone's DR now to get a better idea. lol
OH, also maybe the DR cabinetry and buffet can be less than 24". Would 18" be too narrow for a usable buffet? Maybe even 20/21?

Yes, my higher ceiling is going to be only the new build section of my dining area, an 8x10 area. It will be straight ahead as you enter the room and I am hoping it will be a focal point. Even though I am extending my kitchen in the working kitchen area as well, the ceiling height here will be 8 ft.

You might want to get the book "Not So Big House." I am reading it now and even though the decor shown in the book is not my taste, the author gives good ideas to make space seem larger using diagonal sight lines and altering ceiling heights. It's an old book, but my library had it. Here is the author's website. http://www.notsobighouse.com/ I haven't had a chance to look at the website yet.

They sell dining room chair covers at Bed Bath and Beyond, JC Penney and other big stores. I saw them at Target last year for the holidays, not sure if they carry them all the time.

You might want to get the book "Not So Big House." I am reading it now and even though the decor shown in the book is not my taste, the author gives good ideas to make space seem larger using diagonal sight lines and altering ceiling heights. It's an old book, but my library had it. Here is the author's website. http://www.notsobighouse.com/ I haven't had a chance to look at the website yet.

Here is a link that might be useful: Chair Covers at JC Penney

Thanks, Dilly! I'll take a look at that book/website! Our chairs are all wood except for the seat cushion so the ones in the link controlfreak listed look like a good idea.

So, is your extension 8 feet out then?

@2littlefishies, the timestamp on your floorplan post 5 items /\up /\ is freakin' epic!!!
Yaa.
Casey

Oh My God! Didn't even notice that! Hopefully that's a GOOD sign! lol : )