Forgot to add that at the end of the sink/dishwasher/wall oven wall is a control center.

What kind of storage do you have in the corner? Super-Susans?

With all those tall upper cabs, I would make sure that you have a dedicated place for a folding stool, maybe a slot in your island. You'll get really tired of dragging a stool out of the pantry.

The corner will be drawers...they show in the west & north pic but the corner is skewed 'cause I guess it's a flat drawing. Anyway...I know I have drawers.

The top cabinets are 'transom' cabs with glass front. I plan on storing rarely-used things, decor, stuff like that.

I'll have a folding step stool. Thanks! :)

How does the motion of opening drawers affect your back, especially those on the bottom?

You might consider equipping your bottom drawers with "push to open" drawers so you can nudge them w/your foot to open them. Unless, of course, that motion doesn't work!

Where is your trash pullout? You might consider an 18" (2-bin) one in the island as well as a 12" one (1-bin) next to the cleanup sink (maybe b/w the sink & DW so everything is "right there"...scrape, rinse, load into DW). Having two would reduce your need to twist to get to a single pullout from all three primary zones (Prep, Cooking, Cleanup).

buehl...thanks for responding.

I do have a trash pull-out as described above between the sink & dishwasher.

I've gone back & forth with having one in the island. I think it was because I was trying to fit in a 30" or 36" 'super cabinet'. Since my island isn't very long, I couldn't do both.

I'd rather have drawers in the island for prep tools and since I have a pantry, I really don't think I'd need the super cabinet at the expense of other things.

Do you think a pull-out to the right of my prep sink would be a good location?

My daughter has all bottom drawers & when I visit her in CA, I never have back troubles from using them. I just have to make sure I don't do a lot of piling. I'll have vertical storage above my fridge.

The 'push to open drawers' sound interesting. I wonder if they add a lot of price to the drawers?

Thanks for your input. :)

I might suggest a toe kick drawer to store your step stool. SOrry if I missed this before, but how do you see yourself using your island? Do you really need a prep sink there?

remodelfla - I was thinking of adding toe kicks. Good place to store the step stool.

I will use the island mainly for prep & serving. Do you think I should just have the main sink? Is it close enough to make it convenient?

Thanks!

Prep sink! Prep sink! It's perfectly located in regard to fridge-prep-stove. I think you have adequate counterspace and losing the prep sink won't be as much benefit as loss. JMO, of course.

Sorry to argue with everything you're saying Remodelfla (a hug and wave sent your way)...I don't have terrible back problems but still not sure I'd want the step stool as low as in a toe kick. How about hanging it on the wall in the pantry behind the fridge?

LOL rhome...thanks for responding :) I do really love the tight triangle of the prep sink/fridge/cooktop. Plus, I can have someone else in the kitchen at the same time - clean-up zone on the other side.

Should I add a pull-out trash to the right of the prep sink? I can't remember why I took it out. I should've kept notes.

You know...I was thinking about storing the step stool in the pantry behind the fridge.

I would really like to add this utility closet at the end of my fridge but I don't know if I'll have the room - it's 6" deep...what do you think?:

bumping for rhome & anyone else who wants to add input...thanks! :)

Sorry to hear about your back issues. No fun.

When I first looked at your plan, my first thought was that the oven was too high. Then I read that you're installing higher counters. Ah, you must be taller than me (not difficult to do). Anyhoo, I thought the info, specifically the info in "Space planning" section, you'll find at the below link help you make sure you're installing your wall oven at the best height for you.

Here is a link that might be useful: Kitchen Sync: Cooking ergonomics

Missed the back problem part... sorry for scanning so quickly. I guess bending all the way down wouldn't be good for you. Then again, when you're as short as I am; I'm so close to the floor it doesn't matter!

HUGSSS back rhome!

lisa a - thanks for that link.

it may be of topic - I was reading and came to the part "angel food cake will not rise in a convection oven"

First I ever heard that - maybe that is why I have not been able to make a decent angel food cake in 15 years.

I've got the eggs, I think I'll try one tomorrow and NOT use convection and see how it turns out.

No brilliant insights here but a few questions...

It doesn't look like you have much counter space between the sink and the DW, and with the MW stacked over the DW you won't have any counter space directly over the DW if I'm reading the layout right.

That might work out great for you, but I just want to make sure you've considered how you use your clean up space. For example, where do hand-washed items go? (If you have a stack of dirty pots and pans on the left, where do the clean ones go? Or, if the clean ones go on the left, will you have room on the right to put the dirty ones?) Also, when you empty the DW, do you ever stack things on the counter above it, or does everything go directly into a cabinet? For example, do you ever use china or glasses that aren't stored right by the DW, and you might want a place to stack them between removing from the DW and carrying to the cabinet?

Do you know where your flatware will be stored? I was thinking your flatware might be in the top drawer just to the right of the DW, but since that's under your oven you might want that space for pot holders. If your flatware isn't stored near the DW, just an FYI I have found it handy to have a DW with an easily removable basket so I can carry the flatware to the drawer where it's stored, (which in my kitchen is on the other side of the island from the DW.)

Also consider the path you'll take when taking things out of the oven and whether the DW will ever be open at that time (might be unlikely.) Do you think you'll ever have an occassion when people will be sitting at the island when you're taking things out of the oven? With your current layout, your only landing space for items coming out of the oven is on the seating side of the island. So think about taking that turkey or some other big hot item out of the oven, and your guests are gathered by the island (because they'll always stand in the kitchen!)

Sorry...ran off with hubby to get my oven! ;-)

With the great pantry you've got, and the limited amount of room on the stove wall, if you have 6" to add to the fridge, I'd put it on the other side and give yourself more counter in between the fridge and range. That cleanup closet is great, but I don't think it gives you as much as 6" could elsewhere...If you even have that 6".

Trash pullout by prep sink...If you have the room to give. If you need the storage for other things, I would put a trash under the sink, or put one trash pullout that is more centrally located so you can reach it reasonably from both clean-up and prep areas. That's what I have...1 trash pullout in the island, but facing the main sink.

rhome,

Did you get your oven? Pics, please! :)

The area going into the pantry is as wide as the door so I really don't think I'd have enough room to put the utility cab there. I was thinking maybe I could put it in the pantry on the wall behind the fridge but I'm not sure if it will be too deep for the freezer doors to open all the way.

My dilemma with the trash pull-out...I've heard people say they use their trash can more during clean up than prep. I'm a 'garbage bowl' ala Rachael Ray so having one at the island isn't such a big deal. I mean, I have none right now & I have to fight with the can under the sink.

Where would you put the trash in this kitchen?

Thanks! :)

For me the most important thing is to be able to scrape plates into it...because of the bowl option at prep. But I have to say that it is nice to be able to sweep things off the island into the trash, instead of carrying everything, including tiny pieces and crumbs, across the aisle. As a centrally located option, I would consider it at the sink end of the island. If it faced the stove it would be on one side of you as you prep, but when open it would also be easily accessible from the cleanup sink.

The oven is standing in our back hallway...Not much to take pictures of yet.

chicagoans,

Thanks for your suggestions...I appreciate it.

I had a very hard time with the dishwasher wall layout. I had to make compromises since the space isn't that big if I wanted a raised dishwasher. I'd rather have the advantage of a higher dishwasher, I guess. I don't know how I could put more space between the sink & DW...what would you do?

I've lived most of my almost 34 years of marriage without a dishwasher so just having one will be a luxury. :) I wanted a raised DW so I had to make compromises.

We are empty nesters & live far from most family members so we don't have a lot of company. I'm the only cook in the house - poor hubby can barely push the microwave button, bless his heart.

I see what you mean about pulling a turkey out of the oven...I planned to use the island as a receiving area. I'll just warn any guests sitting in that 'hot' seat to come help me with the turkey :)

I will most likely store my flatware in the island across from the cook top. Like you said, I'll get a dishwasher that has a basket I can pull out. All dishes will go in the glass cupboards above the DW & wall oven.

My dilemma with the sink & DW is I needed them close enough together for ease of use & for the DW to be part of a run that wouldn't break up counter space. I know I lose valuable counter space because it's raised but, like I said, I'm willing to do so for the sake of my back. I have the island. Right now, I only have 3 feet of counter space to do everything so the plans above are a luxury to me :)

I'd like to get a large one-bowl sink & get the drainer that fits inside so the clean dishes can be inside the sink...I will most likely have dirty dishes to the left of the sink.

Thanks for your input...if you can think of anything else...that would be great :)

Hi Melaska, I saw your request for me to look at your plans at that other thread. Our dishwasher is raised 11.25 inches. DH loves it. I have not unloaded it yet! ;-)

Our kitchen is not yet really in use. DH is polyurethaning the drawers and first few doors this weekend. I have about 14 doors outside ready to hang (I stain them outside, we hang them, then DH puts on 3 coats of poly hanging.) and there is another set of about 14 doors left to sand and stain out in the garage. My rule was that nothing gets moved into a drawer or cabinet until the poly was on - otherwise we might spend a few years using them without poly and then they would be all messy-looking and I would have to re-stain them before we could finally put the poly on. I know how lazy (or otherwise busy) we are and how we would just keep putting off the poly step if we put the kitchen into use before the poly was on.

So we have not had much experience with using the kitchen. We do have the dishes in use, though, and we are doing a few loads a week, and DH keeps telling me that raising the dishwasher is the best thing in my kitchen design. DH said that the extra inch or so we have compared to yours is a bit important. We are both 5'8". If you are taller than we are, you really should try to raise it higher than 10". Even if you are the same height as we are, DH says that 12" would be better than what we have, especially since you have back problems.

Btw, we have about the same landing area between the sink and the raised DW - 18". DH says that this is NOT a problem for him. We, too, have a huge 33" single bowl sink. Because of a dog who can reach onto counters and take dirty dishes off to lick, our dirty dishes pretty much live in the deep sink until DH loads them into the DW. Unloading, he does have that 18" to set a plate down and unload all identical plates on top of it. He then walks the stack to their home cupboard. If he has big items like a roasting pan or platter to unload, he would set it on the island, easily within reach.

If you look at my drawing, linked below, you can see that our space between the DW and island is very similar to yours. (Scale is 2 squares = 1 foot), My drawing is not exactly how Jim ended up placing the cabs, though. He took the 6" tray cab and put it at the end of the run, down by the oven. He wanted the sink more centered under the window. We also switched the 19" drawer base and the 18" trash base because we could then have the flatware drawer open at the same time as the dishwasher was open. Otherwise, our kitchens have some similarity in how the space is used and how things relate to each other. Our 30" single oven is at counter height. I find I like it there. It is by no means too high.

Another idea I had while reading above is about toe-kick drawers. With a bad back, how often would you use them? Probably just for holiday linens or other things that you could store elsewhere. You could put in toe-kick steps, instead. I have seen this before, the toe kick would pop out when you kick it with your toe (like someone said above). Then out pops a surface. It has heavy-duty door glides that can take the weight of a regular person. It gives you 4" of a step up to allow you to reach some higher shelves without having to get out the step-stool. Since you have so much high storage, you might be using it more often and this would prevent you having to get out the step-stool each time.

Here is a link that might be useful: My plan on graph paper

Nancy - Wow! Thanks for all your great input & suggestions! I really like that toe kick idea that kicks out for a step. I had planned on using the toe kick for seasonal things plus, dedicate one drawer to the grands & all their precious art supplies :)

I hadn't noticed before until now that your microwave is above your DW, too. I'm 5'7". I'm curious, do you have easy microwave access? When you open the door, are you at eye level to the food inside? How high is the bottom of the microwave from the floor?

I'm glad to hear that the 18" space between the DW & sink are not a problem for you & DH. I think your placement of the DW & micro in the corner is a great use of space. I would've done the same if it weren't for the corner window. All my windows are on the south wall and the kitchen, LR & dining are facing the windows.

Below is the winter view we'll have. I can't wait! This is our property & it ends on State land & the Lowe River. We've lived here since 1980 (with a brief 3-year stay in California) Dear, dear hubby built a shed that partially blocks the view and the window on the end isn't very big. The mountains go all the way to the east & west. Plus, we have a range of mountains on the other side.

We live in Valdez, Alaska...remote - it's not on its way to anyplace else - the road stops...mountains & glaciers trump! We're 300 miles from Anchorage, the nearest 'big' city and 115 miles from the "Hub of Alaska" (Glennallen) - turn to go to Fairbanks, Anchorage or Canada. Glennallen is even smaller than Valdez...a real outpost. They don't even have building codes!

Valdez is called "The Little Switzerland of the North". It's a terribly beautiful place, it's also the snow capital of Alaska...we get LOTS of snow. We average over 500" a year with records in the 700" range. Lots of roof angles = lots of potential trouble. We settled on a Chalet style.

Nice to know about your huge kitchen sink...I'll do the same as you :) I would never have considered a single sink - since I've been living in Gardenweb for these past months, I've learned a lot!

Thank you for posting - I really appreciate it! Looking forward to your finished pics. Oh, wanted to add that I love the trim you put on your island...gives it such a rich look. :)

I am here to 2nd the idea of a single sink. I was always an ardent fan of double-bowl sinks, but now that I have a prep sink, I don't find it necessary to have a double in the cleanup area, and wish I had the wider open space.

rhome - I'm not quite understanding your "I would consider it at the sink end of the island" as far as a central location for the trash pull out?

Get the Fisher & Paykel dish drawers. They are great. I love them. You won't need to raise your counter, there will be no bending with the drawers. I got a pair of stacked ones and almost never use the bottom drawer. If I could do it over again I would get two single drawers, one on each side of the sink. Really recommend this for your back. Also are great in terms of the door not banging your shins etc. Just closing a regular door is hard on your back.

Second suggestion is Pilates. My back was ruining my life. Thanks to Pilates, I can now do lots of things, no more back problems.

salal...thanks for responding. I did seriously consider dish drawers. My only hesitation was the negative reviews on them being repair prone. I live 300 miles from Anchorage so it would be a real pain to try & get service.

I do have some Pilates DVDs...I just need to push 'play', right? :) Do you think yoga would be good, too?

Thanks! :)

I didn't know the F&P dish drawers had repair problems. I love mine, probably my favourite part of the new kitchen, because of the no bending. I think service problems would be more than worth the real pleasure of using them though. Also you wouldn't have to break up the countertop by raising the dw.

By all means press play on the DVD, you will love what a change it makes in your life. Get to wear 2 sizes smaller in no time too. Don't know about yoga. I really wanted to do it as well, needed serenity and all that, but I had to limp/crawl out of my first class before it was over. If you are young enough it should be OK.

good luck, do get the dish drawers, you won't regret it!

If you have lower back problems consider the depth of your sink if you are tall. Others had mentioned it but I didn't think too much about it. I ordered 8" undermount sinks which didn't sound deep but with the thickness of the granite they are definitely deeper than my previous sinks.

I am 5'8" (well I used to be. I just told a friend I need to measure myself after the back fusion I just had on my L5S1 to see if I shrunk) and I definitely feel the strain on my lower back trying to reach the bottom of the sink. If I squat even a little I see how a deeper sink is easier for a shorter person than a taller one.

The F&P dish drawers had problems in earlier models (the ones produced several years ago now), but I don't think have widespread problems any more.

irishcreamgirl - yes, I've considered that as well. Another reason I'm going to get a grid for the bottom, too. Thanks!

rhome - I guess I just don't want to take chances living so far from service (300 miles)...they won't come here. One bad thing about living in the boonies!

Hi Melaska, you have so much room to do lots of back friendly things and are very lucky with that. As you may know my space is limited but although there is barely enough room my little 30 x 30 boo’s meat block is a life savor for me. It’s heavy enough not do go flying if you bump it but easy to move when you need to. There are many times I have had to unload dishwasher, stack on block, and move just over 7’ to the cabinets to put away.
Once at Thanksgiving I had to wheel around kitchen on an adjustable office chair so I just moved the block out. If I had more room I would have all my spices in a top drawer, that way you can get to it by a rolling chair or easily with no bending in a standing position. I now have mine in upper pull-out spice cabinets because it’s easier to reach than bend. However, if I had more space I would have them in a top drawer. I keep my step stool in a small pantry around corner along with the occasional (at this time), steroids.

I wish you could be sure of any appliance not needing service! I'm just not sure there are any out there... Cynical, I know.

Melaska, I was up your way this past spring on a cruise with my Mom. You are correct in that it's a hauntingly beautiful area. I will say you have to be a hardy bunch to live up there. :)

Funny I never wanted a double bowl sink. To me they seem harder to get big pots in.

And yes, yoga would be excellent for you as long as you start slowly.

jterrilynn - LOVE your kitchen! What is the yellow color on your cabs? Are the mirrors on the doors? I'm thinking of putting mirrors in the backs of the top 'transom' cabs in mine.

I store most of my most-oft used spices/herbs in the fridge doors in zones. I color coded the tops according to type (herbs, chilies/hot, baking, etc.) I have a big box of Penzeys bags in a stand-up 'file' box in the freezer for replenishing. I have a few seasonings right by the stove in a wrought iron shelf on the backsplash next to the stove. I know the fridge/freezer isn't optimal but, for me, it keeps them fresher.

Your moveable block looks really convenient. I wonder if I'd have room to have one of those but don't know where I'd store it when not in use. Thanks!

rhome - You are right - no guarantees, that's for sure! When I am in the market for anything like that, I do an intense research & try to minimize the risk. Plus, the dish drawers are very expensive.

cpartist - Your trip sounds fun! Where all did you stop? I've been up here since '72 and I've never been on a cruise. I guess you have to be a tourist to really see Alaska :)

I would never have considered a single-bowl sink if it weren't for GW so I'm paying attention to the advice given here.

Yes, I need to get out my yoga DVD - thanks! :)

Whoops! I forgot to get back with info on the height of the microwave. Our microwave counter is 48" high from the floor. It is not at eye level at all. It is at ... center of chest...um...br.. - golly - THAT level. The top of the microwave is at chin height and so it is very easy to see into it at this height, but it is not too high to reach into.

For the first time since we have owned it, I can read the fool time display without bending and bobbing my head up and down trying to get the right angle. We have a fairly big microwave and we still have room next to it to slide in the wooden trencher plates we use to set hot dishes on when we take them out of the microwave.

I have read articles about bad backs that say that the best thing for a back is to get into a stretching/mobility program and keep it up. Yoga should be great, but take it easy until you are feeling better.

We started in SF, went to Juneau, Ketchikan, Sitka, Skagway and Valdez. Saw Hubbard Glacier and I forgot the other one we saw. That had to be one of the most amazing sights I've seen.

cpartist - you were in my hometown of Valdez! I sure hope it wasn't raining when you were here. How did you like our quaint little town? Not many GW'ers can say they've been here :) Did you get a chance to come to our one & only grocery store? Makes one really appreciate the big city stores, eh? ;) I hit the produce first thing when I get to Anchorage - can't believe the difference.