As I haven't seen your floorplan, I would say that seems like a long way to go if you are remodeling and can theoretically put the fridge anywhere.

If you are worried about multiple cooks and congestion around the fridge, then I suggest you check how wide your aisle space is and go with a 48*54" aisle, but have the fridge closer to the prep surface. This allows for the fridge doors to be open and for someone to walk around them.

Rules are meant to be broken! There are quite a few forum members that have also broken rules because it works best for them. I'm one of them and I don't regret it. Some of us have limited space, special needs, multiple cooks or just a style of working around the kitchen that isn't supported by the rules. I'm no expert and there are some here who may disagree with me, but I don't think those few extra steps will render your kitchen non-functional. Is re-sale a concern?

Have you tried mentally cooking a meal in your new layout? It's about 16 feet from my kitchen nook table to my frig but I prep for baking there a lot so my pre-schooler can help. I run back and forth to the frig and don't mind at all.

According to the way most people use their ref - I'm weird. I go to the ref frequently during cooking. Comes from being way too condimenty and make last minute decisions to adjust spicing or just feel like adding something else.

Other people are very organized and disciplined about how they cook and what they are making. They primarily go to the ref once and get out everything they need and bring it over to the prep area, where people like me open the ref door at least 5 times and maybe 20 ;)

Its so bad that when we looked at how I cooked, I had a stronger connection between the range and the ref than between the the range and the sink. If you belong to my tribe, its too far away.

If you belong to the other (organized) tribe, your ref can be anywhere.

I gutted my kitchen and had my slab jackhammered so that I could get rid of 16' between stove and fridge. I'd much rather have the sink too far from the fridge. With the stove that far away, if you're stirring and fixing and need a drop of milk, or some of the good wine that's open in the fridge or to grab an herb that you've just decided will make all the difference, forget it. You can turn off the stove and risk your sauce splitting, or run and hope it doesn't burn, or keep stirring while hopping from foot to foot and planning to get it to just that place where you can run and get what you need without bad consequences.

In the new kitchen, the 8-10 feet (three steps) between is as nothing, and the fridge drawers that are a pivot behind have butter, milk, onions, garlic, lemons, wine, and whatever else is destined for the stove. I can just turn, go whap whap whap and add an onion. It is SOOOO wonderful.

If it's cold prep (i.e., sink work), whether fridge or pantry, and you have to make an extra trip, or carry too far, or use a tea cart, at least nothing is going to be ruined in the meantime.

My own philosophy, developed through my years here seeing what everybody hates, loves, rips out and puts in, is different from the FKB, but is also based on the basic stations that you find in the work triangle (sink(s), stove(s), fridge(s)): The working area, the task stations (prep, cooking, baking, clean-up) should be fairly tightly grouped. This also includes storage for frequently used tools (knives, cutting boards, mixing bowls, pots, stirrers) and seasonings/spices, oil, wine, flour (small amount) and whatever goes into the cooking, and baking staples in the baking zone. On the next layer out should be large storage (i.e. pantry, dishes, and less used cookware), as well as staging space (or cooling space, alternative prep space, or whetever extra counters are used for), desk, and non-cooking zones such as beverage/snack, breakfast (coffee, toast, cereal), bar, etc. Usually one can draw this in a spiral or as a circle with spokes. Some kitchens are compact and just have a circle (or oval). Most of the good ones can fit into this kind of scheme.

I wouldn't hike far to the fridge. I HATE that. And have eliminated it in my new kitchen.

Kitchen has been installed 3 months, so haven't had long experience with it. I've got 12 feet from range to refrig on each of two side-by-side work triangles. Yes, it's a pain when I need a single ingredient I had forgotten when rummaging in refrig before a cooking session, but not so bad I can't live with it.

When I have a large pile of stuff awaiting transport to range, I have to do it in two installments; haul back to refrig at end of cooking is also sometimes in installments. I may begin using trays more.

The long commute is worth it because of compromises with other issues that make life better in the long run.

Johnliu, I use refrig and freezer much more than larder for ingredients, but this doesn't include individual spice bottles or oil, vinegar, etc. This may change as winter approaches.

I'm slightly infamous on this forum for saying that I'm a selfish cook and the fridge needs to be close to me at the stove. I like an efficient work space and path. People getting drinks and snacks are the ones who can do the walking...As long as they stay out of my way, of course! ;-) I'm like Bmore, I go to the fridge quite often while I'm cooking....add some butter, a splash of soy sauce, a bit of milk...Or to get ingredients to prep side dishes, while I keep one eye on something bubbling away on the stove. I could live with a little distance between stove and fridge as long as it's a straight path without the possibility of traffic and other hazards in the way...but 14 ft is a very long way. I am not that organized to gather everything before I start, and don't really want everything at my elbows at once. I don't want to HAVE to be more disciplined because the layout requires it...it's supposed to work for me. Yours needs to work for you, of course, based on your priorities.

Thanks so much for all of your comments and advice about how you use your refrigerators. This forum is so generous with advice! You've provided a whole range of models to think about as I re-work my plan. I'm especially going go back to the starting board with Johnliu's advice to think broadly about "pantry" food prep items as well as refrigerated ingredients.

Here is one more thing to think about---putting things away. One of the things that I noticed this afternoon while putting together a few things in the kitchen was how nice it was to be able to get what I needed for the project, and then be able to turn around and put them away just as easily. Remember, what goes out (milk, soy sauce, lemon juice, the other half of the onion, the rest of the butter, etc.) has to go back in, and you have to traverse that 14 feet again to do it--maybe twice if it was a lot of stuff. I wouldn't do it if I had other options. If you post your floor plan here, you'll get more ideas than you know what to do with. Really. :-)

Cj

I think that's one of those personal things. Each person might have a different tolerance for walking back and forth.

For me....um, my hike has to be about a step, two at most.

I hated the hike in our "before" kitchen - abhored it. It was the number one thing in the functionality department that led to the renovation - and mine was only about 8 feet from the main work area.

If you do end up putting the fridge further away, be sure to have JUST the fridge and not other things in that area. I had the pantry and garbage there too so I would make the trek countless times every time I cooked. It was awful!

Now that the fridge is a pivot from the prep sink and a sidestep away from the cooktop, I can affirm that having a tight, small work area encompassing all critical pieces is the single most important thing to me, but other people may have other priorities.

I agree with Rhome, Needsometips, and Bmore. That stretch would be much too far for me. I must open the door at least 20 times during each meal prep/cooking. Each time I think I have everything, I remember that I was going to grab those chives and forgot the last time I went in for milk. But I realize that everyone isn't like me! (((shock)))) Think carefully and realistically if it will really work for you. Don't be optimistic you can make it work if you have any doubt. If you know it will work, then do it!

We broke that rule, kind of. DH is the cook and cannot function with anyone near his workspace. I, on the other hand, bake, and welcome anyone in my workspace. Two very different people sharing the kitchen, not to mention the kids coming in to help themselves to whatever.

So, we created a space with no cross traffic for him. He has his stove, condiments, serving pieces and cookware nearby with a small undercounter fridge for the items most used during the cooking process. The freezer is the only thing he may occasionaly access, which is rare.

I have the cross traffic with the oven midway between, he has access to it also, but with no cross traffic.

The large fridge is in my workspace, with my baking area. My aisle is wider. His area is u-shaped. He has the prep sink, I have the main sink. I clean up, so I have the dishwasher. He has access to the eat-in penninsula to serve food.

The perfect marriage that breaks the rules, probably.

Another view here. My pantry and my fridge/freezer are all out of the workplace. I love it ! I never go back to get out anything once I have started to cook and neither does DH...and he does a lot of the cooking .

We get out all that we are going to use and do mise en place. We prep and return everything and then cook. This way the whole kitchen is clean when we sit down to eat as far as the items that were used to prepare the meal. All that remains is to do the actual dishes...usually all the prep dishes are already done too as we wash as we go along.

Here is a pic. My baking counter is the long soapstone area and all of my stuff is in the drawers and the cabs. It is the closest to the fridge/freezer and I use the end of the counter for the landing space. Dinner/meal prep is always on the island ( not in this pic as I didn't have it at the time) You can just see the f/f in the alcove area . The cooking area is on the wall to the right.

{{gwi:612474}}

I hope you get the set up that works for you . That is of course the most important part ! c

There are 2 schools of thought when it comes to fridge placement, and both have pros and cons.

Personally, I prefer storage (fridge and pantry(s)) out of my work space when prepping or preparing food. I find it more convenient to locate the fridge closer to seating areas, either kitchen or DR or both. I also am the type of cook who gathers and preps before embarking on a recipe.

Be a rulebreaker :)

I'm another one who almost never goes directly from the fridge to the oven or stovetop. I go fridge to prep and prep to cooktop/oven.

My fridge (and pantry) are located outside the main work area on the other side of the peninsula which is my main prep area. So, I stand on the outside, gather things from fridge & pantry and put them on the peninsula counter. Then I go to the other side of the peninsula where I do my prep. Sink is 3 steps, cooktop is 2 steps, trash is 1 step. All small appliances are at the peninsula (in an appl garage) and all cooking utensils are in the drawers of the peninsula or between the peninsula and the cooktop. Pots & pans are under the cooktop. Oven is to the left of the cooktop. And THAT is my tight triangle.

The time/effort getting things out of the fridge/pantry or putting them back is all either at the beginning or at the end. So for me, there was not sense in cluttering up my main work area with those big ol' honkin space hogs.

Now, if you're the kind of cook who is constantly going back & forth to the fridge... then you need it close by. Everyone has their own cooking style. Evaluate yours and design your kitchen accordingly.

We let the space dictate where appliances would go. There was a spot where we could recess a fridge, so we used it; the range looks great on a short wall next to the dining room; the sink ended up centered to the 15' wide window wall. The layout works fine as we have an island in the center of the room, and that's where ingredients land and get placed after use. I prep in the section between the sink & range.

In retrospect, I might change from island to peninsula (linking island to bookcase) to get more storage for cookware, but the fridge location relative to other appliances is no problem.
view from fridge:

Just chiming back in . . .

My ideal would be a setup like a commercial kitchen. Typically there is a large refrigerator (or several, or a walk-in) for the main food storage, and then the cook has an undercounter refrigerator at his station. He takes food from the main storage and preps it (or maybe a prep cook does it), then the prepped food and his mise are held at his station with the undercounter refrigerator.

Of course, the commercial cook has a different task than the home cook - instead of cooking one dinner, he needs to cook many dozens of dishes over a several hour period. And he gets his mise arranged at the start of his shift.

francoise47-

Lots of food for thought here, and to me the most important thing is that the rules only apply if you want them to. Our home is an open floorplan, and I hate seeing the fridge (and the microwave!!) from the LR or DR, they just seem to wink disturbingly at me. Also, both mr. sandyponder and I cook, and neither of us like other people in our space, so, cuz the fridge is the most accessed thing for non cooks (read: the kid and her accomplices), we put it and the microwave in the walk in pantry. The stove is half way between the main sink and the fridge, but we also have another sink in the pantry, so when those disgusting, moldy relics come from the bowels of the fridge, there is a sink close by.

The best advice is some you've already gotten, think about how you and the other cooks in your house prefer to have things arranged, and design from there.

Good luck-

sandyponder

Unless the sink and non-cook usage areas are also part of the conversation, the logic of anybody's refrig placement is not clear. How far would you hike from anywhere to get an ice cube or a hunk of cheese?

Listening to others (above) moves me add to my posting about the 12 foot trot from range to refrig at my place. I realize now that at our place the triangle is redefined as a trapezoid by the microwave which in our household acts as a second range opposite the first range. Additionally, "plunk space" is as important as any other part of the geometry. Without space for items to sit temporarily near the refrig, the refrig is a difficult appliance to use at all, unless you're an octopus. And work space must figure into the picture--what is the path of a tomato from purchase (or garden) to the stew pot in your house? Is it direct or in stages and is the refrig involved?

As I said, I don't use many canned goods, etc but they're stored next to range, so I don't have the long pantry run that some others have. I have flour and such very near range in a baking station area. Except for eggs, bacon, butter/marg, milk, wine, most of my refrig ingredients destined for use at range just take a trip to a sink and prep area, then are transferred to the range zone afterward. That is probably why I don't commute directly between range and refrig very often. On the other hand, an unimpeded commute between seating areas and refrig is very important to me. Condiments, beverages, marg, cold foods--no need to go near range. Salads of fresh ingredients are prepared at prep sink close to refrig.--a big deal at our house. Microwave is quite near refrig so leftovers go there and then to table.

If the refrig were positioned any deeper into my kitchen, it would make life very hard for grocery delivery, servicing the table, stashing cleaned produce from garden, working at sandwich/breakfast prep portion of countertop, and general access to iced tea or ice or beer when the spirit moves. All summer I haul stuff across the entire width of the house from refrig and peninsula to the deck at back of house and back again. (Yes, this is a stupidly designed house, but I won't go into that. We've done the best we can with what we have.)

Even though I'm firmly a non-hiker and multiple fridge opening during cooking-er, I totally agree with Florantha about the other considerations. Optimal fridge location is also handy to the groceries in, and handy to the eating area. I'm proud to say I managed all of that in my new kitchen. One of the most important things I did is put the fridge on the left (full sized all fridge and full sized all freezer), opening on the right, so that the armful of lunch things (pickles, mustard, etc., etc.) are a straight shot to the table. That means that it opens backwards to the kitchen work stations, but the aisle is wide enough and during cooking (while things are on the stove) I don't generally need more than three things, or I can put them on the island in the prep zone. The island opposite the fridge is a great place for grocery bags, and things that go into the prep fridge drawers or kitchen storage (rather than pantry) can just be pushed along the island during unpacking to be in the right place for putting away. Pantry items can be put on the table portion of the island to go in the pantry behind. It's very efficient.

Sometimes, as in Abbycat's case, one fits oneself into the arrangement that the space dictates. Sometimes one can shape the space to fit one's needs, as I did. The biggest other difference I've seen in this thread is a cooking style difference. Some of us make recipes. Others of us just ocok. When I follow a recipe I prep it all to mise en place too. When I'm just cooking dinner there's no recipe. I pull out some ingredients and prep them, but then I just throw things together and cook them. And while I usually have a good idea where I'm going with it, it requires some tasting and adjusting, and sometimes that means thinking, oh, it needs another onion, or a splash of milk, or some thyme.

In our new kitchen plan the fridge and range will be about a 15 ft hike. We have a long rectangular kitchen (19 x 13) and the fridge and range are at the long poles with the sink under a window down the one long wall, and 2 doors down the other long wall - with the new eating island down the middle there is no room for a closer refrig to the range. SO, it's a good thing we are fit and exercise alot! The refrig and cabinets at that wall are close to the opening from the garage, to help unload groceries at the one end of the island as well.

I counted during dinner prep tonight.

Made four dishes - a soup, a stirfry, a steamed dish, a deep fried dish. Opened the refrigerator six times, including getting stuff out and putting it back. Ten trips to the trash can. Spent 3/4 of the time at my prep station, 1/4 at the range. Assorted family members blocked my path, or were standing where I needed to be, six or seven times. The cat did it twice (I need a ''cat zone'', where she can sit while waiting for the trimmings). Used six utensils (thinking about the utensil storage thread), four little spoons and one fork (so I need some silverware near the prep zone), four knives, eight little prep bowls, two big steel bowls, four pieces of cookware. Trashed the rangetop and didn't bother to clean it up - I figure it's black for a reason.

Okay, these notes sound ridiculous, but I think that keeping notes like this can help one optimize a layout.

My plan has sort of a central workbench, with room for lots of gadgets and husband detritus, with prep sink and range on the right and fridge on the left, so the fridge is 11 feet from the rest. But I'm okay with that for these reasons. We are lactose intolerant, so we tend to cook with warm olive oil instead of cold milk, butter or cheese. We have bad knees, so the pivot move is killer.

The triangle is incomplete, and sort of presumes other things will just fit in. The microwave, the trash, and the paper towels need to be central too.

Do a use case analysis - mentally go through a week, and write down what you do in the kitchen and how often- groceries, breakfast, lunch, three favorite dinners, cleanup, tiddlywinks, holiday meals, cocktails, neighbor coffee brunch, whatever. Add what you would like to do. Then trace it through with your finger on a layout.

One of the biggest mistakes I see is that putting dishes away from the dishwasher requires a hike, which means the dirties pile up. At least with the fridge a little further, you get the exercise and don't stop cooking.