I'm intrigued by your lift oven. Can you describe what that is? Maybe others know about this, but I've never heard of it.

Thanks for sharing. Lots of cool ideas in your post. Can't wait to see the Ann Sacks "Sakura" tile in Shippo. Beautiful tile! It will make a wonderful statement.

(As someone who was very cautious in my recent kitchen reno I appreciate/admire your bolder use of tile.)

Wow. There are several aspects of your plan that are completely different and almost totally unique in the original sense of the word "unique". Congratulations! I'm glad you felt comfortable giving prices too. You are a great bargain spotter.

It's a 24" oven that mounts on the wall. Instead of a "normal" door opening out, the entire bottom lowers to counter level and then raises back up, carrying the racks and food with it...the idea is that this is (1) more ergonomic and (2) keeps heat from escaping. They were and are marketed under the Siemens brand in europe, here they are branded as Gaggenau with a small facelift and a big price increase.

In our case, it is kind of taking the place of a microwave or toaster oven, providing a small oven that will pre-heat quickly. It also has very nice temperature control, and can be used as a warming unit or, for example, to proof bread dough in. But really, it is just really cool...my wife fell in love with it when she saw it for the first time, and like I said we got a good deal.

You can see details at http://www.gaggenau.com/US_en/products/product-detail.do?contentId=6cfd5159-f87f-4a8a-b374-772ec7bc915c

The attached link is a cool video from Siemens for their liftmatic oven version.

Here is a link that might be useful: Liftmatic Advertisement

Very cool ideas in a petite kitchen. Love your Ann Sacks' tile choices.

The only thing that would bug me - and it may not bug you - is the lack of elbow room to the left of the sink. I'd forever be banging my elbow and cussing a blue streak.

Have you already purchased the DW? Can't tell from what you wrote. If not, given your small space, you might be as happy with a 18" instead of a 24" DW since it would allow you to pull the sink cab a bit away from the wall, giving you a bit of landing space to the left (and maybe making it slightly easier for 2 people to use the sink?). From what I've read, the European models (Miele comes to mind) offer as much usable space as larger American models. There are many more 18" DWs on the market today than there used to be.

Don't forget to come back and post when your kitchen is finished. I look forward to seeing it.

I did already purchase the dishwasher....originally I pushed the idea of an 18", but I couldn't sell it to my wife. Good point about the elbow room, but I *think* it will be ok...we actually originally put the dishwasher on the left, which would avoid this issue, but putting the sink on the left allows the faucet to go in a less obvious location. It also makes it easier for people in the dining room to access the faucet for water without going so far into the kitchen.

I just wish I could have fit a larger sink [I love the Precis multi-level silgranit, sink). An 18" DW would have let me do that, but in the end we decided the 24" was a better tradeoff.

Davidro1...I do love a bargain, have to admit. I don't have a problem spending money when its necessary and appropriate, and I plan to support my local retail store by buying the biggest items from them, but there's something about getting a good deal that is really addictive. This planning has been going on so long, I have had the leisure to keep my eye out and swoop in when great bargains appear.

Thanks for describing the lift oven. Now I want one!

I'm loving your color choices! Good to see some bold choices.

However, I really have to tell you that you will probably not be happy with your sink arrangement. It's beyond claustrophobic for cleanup, and if you need to rinse off some veggies to chop during food prep, you have no space to do it. Drying dishes and dirty ones will be in the way. There just isn't enough room.

You need at least 18" on the other side of that sink for it to work. Could you swap your refrigerator and dish storage zones and remove the wall between the butler's pantry and sink? That would get your dish storage right next to your sink, as well as give you the needed counter space next to the sink.

Or, your current sink location is ideal for a secondary prep/beverage sink with the main sink on the longer counter run. The main sink in a kitchen needs much more room. This is about making the kitchen more functional, and being functional for more than one person. It's not a resale issue at all. It's a "Wow I can't believe I spent so much on a new kitchen and didn't do that!"

Agree--love your aesthetics. But the sink won't work at all. And it's not just about elbow room.

One of your key complaints now is that you have no counter space. After the reno, you will still have no counter space--not usable space, at least. Picture, as GD said, something--anything at all--drying or piled up by the sink. Now, how do you cut up a chicken or prep a carrot? Run from the fridge to the sink, with nowhere to work or set anything down. Carry the wet thing from the sink across the whole kitchen to the run with the Gag on it. Run back to the sink to rinse your hands. Now back to the long counter to pick up the food, and bring it to the range. I want to shoot myself just writing about it.

Something needs fixing.

- Put the main sink on the long run
- At minimum, add a prep sink on the long run (better for baking and using the oven, too)
- Create more space around the main sink where it is now

Can you flip the sink and dishwasher? Your elbows will thank you. More seriously, I have this set up currently at my second sink and its not too bad there - we've gotten used to it. It's not the main sink, but I do have a small drainboard over the next cabinet and sit pots I'm washing on that instead.

My only comment is about the base cabinet with the mixer lift and the office doorway. Sigh Is that the office's only door? Is it frequently used? IF yes to either one, seriously consider making that cabinet one of those 12" angled bases and move the appliance lift elsewhere.

Hey, then you could add an angled base by the new sink location (or beside the dw)! And, I think, a 9" tray cabinet at the wall.

Well I love it, all of it.

Can you tell me if you live near the Kvanum showroom? I'm in love with their kitchens and would love to use them, but I'm not sure what the design process would be like since I don't live near them.

Thanks!

Greendesigns & Marcolo - I really appreciate your concern, but I think that this is not the issue you think it is (other than maybe the elbow room concern).

First, the new plan is a significant increase in counter space where I really need it - in my food prep areas on the long run and by the stove. What you don't know (cause I didn't tell you) is that (1) there is currently a standard-height 32" refrigerator on the long run about where the lift oven is going, and (2) while the range location is not moving, the current range is flanked on one side by a full-height wine fridge (no counter at all) and on the other by an 18" rolling cart. So, right now I have, at best, about 112" of linear counter spread through the kitchen. After the reno, we will have about 200" instead (when the lift oven is closed, the area below it is working counter). Plus, the surface of the induction range can act as landing space, at least.

Second, the sink cabinet and sink are not really changing from the current layout...its just being prettied up and a dishwasher is being added, and in the current plan we are putting the sink on the left end rather than the right. That area to the left of the sink is only used for draining/drying dishes...I doubt that will change, but with the counter to the right it become a potentially useful prep and/or landing space. I still think I won't use it much for that, and I plan to continue cutting up chickens or carrots where I always have - on another counter, nearer the oven/cooktop. The sink area is not where I am wishing for more counter. It would of course be better if this run could be a bit longer, but that can't be achieved because of a low window right next to it. The sink can't be centered on the run, because of the dishwasher. Placing the sink on the long run just isn't an acceptable option for us.

Marcolo, I think that you aren't quite realizing how small the area is. I can literally stand in one place and by simply turning around reach all three runs of counter with at most one step. The farthest an additional prep sink could be would be about 8" from the main sink.

Again, appreciate the concern, and will think about the issues, but I am fairly sure we are OK.

bmorepanic - the mixer lift cabinet is going to be hinged on the right, so it can fold over and not black the doorway. We tried to fit it anywhere else, and it just didn't work...we mocked it up, though, and feel it will work out. Again on the dishwasher, flipping it is definitely a possibility...according to our KD, the cabinets are actually modular in such a way that we can change out mind on that issue up to the moment of installation. So lots of time to change our minds!

ThePaintedLady - yes, we are in SF. Natalia is the owner/KD, she is very nice...but I don't know what the process would be like from afar. One fair warning...the cabinets are wonderful, but their computer program for doing renderings etc. is very, very bad. Not her fault, but it did make the visualization process a bit harder than it had to be.

Closing down for the night...sincere thanks to everyone for their thoughts, and really appreciate the compliments! I am excited and looking forward to the final product...

I will check in again tomorrow to see any further discussion.

You can't miss what you've not had.

In your case, I'm sure it's an improvement over what's there. But, it could be such an IMPROVEMNT!

Try to describe orgasm to someone who has never had one. It's darn difficult to do. They don't know what they're missing. And, because they've never had one, they don't think it's a big deal.

That's your kitchen.

Believe me, it is a BIG deal to have your sink where it is. It makes it virtually impossible to have a great functioning kitchen. Sure, it's better than what you had. But, if this is your long term life time partner, you don't want to lock yourself into this relationship without orgasm!

Put a sink on that main cabinet run where your oven is. It would be better to have the cleanup sink there, but you'd still get miles more function if it were just a prep sink. You don't think you need it, fine, get one with a cutting board cover, so that it stays covered up as a prep area. Plan to use it to ice down some cold ones for parties. But, take it as someone who's designed hundreds of functional kitchens, this sink issue needs addressing. Otherwise, it will be beautiful, but frigid at the core. Unleash the possibilities! Don't be afraid of what you've never had! It's absolutely wonderful, I promise.

Jsceva, it's going to be gorgeous! I had my own very personal response just to the pictures of your cabinets and feature tile. Thanks for posting your design, and please, please treat us with pictures of your finished kitchen.

Folks, you're talking to people who've lived with and cooked in this space for some time. Who chose--with their eyes wide open--to put the sink to the left "so the faucet could go in a less obvious location." Their tradeoff for what's more important.

Jsceva, the faucet alone tells me you guys are coming from somewhere else altogether. Everyone knows the taller and more obtrusive the faucet, the better. It's SUPPOSED to be an attention grabber. :)

Although I doubt you'll ever want a separate prep sink, plenty of unencumbered work space being so valuable to me also, and the main sink so close, you could always do what I did, which was to run plumbing to X just in case.

Rose, I'll repeat what I said. You can't miss something you've never had. Telling someone that their choices will be just wonderful is a disservice if thousands of ergonomic studies and years of experience indicate otherwise.

To use a metaphor you'll understand. It's like telling someone who plans on putting 4 body bag roses straight in to some just plain unamended clay dirt that they are going to have a wonderful rose garden. The odds are greatly against it. Sure, to someone who has never grown roses, if one Knockout survives, they think they've done pretty good. It's only when they visit some place like the San Jose Rose Garden that they see what they've been missing and what could have been!

I don't advise anyone on how to fix their car. It's not my profession. It's not even my hobby. And I don't offer many critiques or suggestions to anyone needing auto repair. Nor do I gush about how wonderful it will be to drive the car on vacation when it's a 1990 Civic getting a new paint job without rebuilding the motor. It would be amiss of any mechanic to not at least mention that the car needed more attention than that if they brought it to them. And it would be a completely irrational for everyone, even the hobbyist restorers, to focus on how pretty the paint would be and ignore the engine.

I don't give opinions on already completed kitchens with non functional or ridiculous layouts unless they are magazine ones. But for anyone who hasn't spent the money yet, there is always room for improvement. Pollyanna cheerleading doesn't help, unless you're just talking about something decorative like the difference between light fixture A and B or which of the 9001 whites is the "better" choice.

Anyone who wants their kitchen to actually function better rather than just look pretty would do well to internalize the NKBA guidelines and listen to the collective wisdom of the Forum.

Why add dysfunctional to a small space...small kitchens are the ones that need the best alignment and streamlining.The sink there is really kooky. Fantastic price tag with beautiful stuff, but....I know-now tell me I just don't know anything about it...okay, you're right...I don't know and can't fathom anything about this.

Ah - its the CABINET that's blocking the office entrance. The fact that its an appliance lift was just for identification. In some localities, this is against code (not having at least 30 inches clear in front of a doorway).

How 'bout doing the old blue tape of the plan on the floor and perhaps move either the cart or the wine ref to stand in place of this cabinet and see what you think?

Not sure if I see what the fuss is about.

I see the first image in the OP shows a layout with the sink pushed against a wall. It's more functional to have _several_ inches of countertop on the wall side of the sink, and of course to have a wide open countertop on the open side.

Here is a way you jsceva (the OP) and the improvers can both get along:

Since the DW is bought and you aren't going to sell it, you have to install it. It's 24"wide. Far in the future you could install an 18" DW. This will give you a landing pad on the left hand side of the sink.

Your sink is 19.5" width inside. Correct this if it's wrong. Since it's undermount, you can get the counter to overhang, so the opening can be a bit smaller than that. Any size you like. You may make the LHS overhang, and have no overhang on the RHS. It is allowed. Who cares if it will look unusual at first sight.

The sink may be slid over towards the DW, leaving more room on the LHS. You install the sink over the (cut) edge of the cabinet. All told, this will give you several inches of countertop on the LHS. Not bad. Not great. Who cares.

I would make that countertop wood, from Ikea. One day you might have an 18" dishwasher. Then the sink cabinet has to be larger too, but that's only $50.

Here are some part numbers I found on the Blanco sites.

Blanco America:
513428 PRECIS LARGE SINGLE Under Mount ANTHRACITE
515652 PRECIS LARGE SINGLE Under Mount CAFE BROWN
517677 PRECIS LARGE SINGLE Under Mount TRUFFLE
517109 PRECIS LARGE SINGLE Under Mount BISCOTTI
513426 PRECIS LARGE SINGLE Under Mount WHITE
513427 PRECIS LARGE SINGLE Under Mount BISCUIT
513429 PRECIS LARGE SINGLE Under Mount METALLIC GRAY
ACCESSORIES
Grid: 221014
Colander: 513520
Colander w/ Handles: 440492

in Blanco Canada there are different numbers but it is the same size.
400825
400880
401181
401184

What is a Blanco 3-in-1 basket strainer?

The shelves in the butler's pantry could be made deeper.

Your Viking DW might require a deeper (larger) distance front to back than you expect. More than 24". Also the Viking range, which might need several inches more too if the wall outlet gets installed at the wrong height.

The countertop has to be supported on the exposed side of the dishwasher. A 3/4" panel will do. If I'm right about all of this, I guess this makes me an internationally known expert in small space planning.

Caveat: I don't know if I understood everything in your drawing. It seems you have two entrances and a window.

Hollysprings, and others, I don't worry about leading educated adults into disaster at this point, since they've given a great deal of thought to this, consulted many resources--including this forum, and are (once again!) making INFORMED CHOICES. Their own informed choices.

Also once again, the wonderful synergy created on this forum requires respect for the personal preferences all who come. Satisfaction should be taken from helping them arrive at their final designs--even when those designs turn out to be very much their own. Maybe especially then. Trying to help people never met get what they want in a home never seen is a dicey business, and at least a little humility on this side of the screen is in order.

You know, the thing I love about this forum is the passion people have...seriously, I might disagree on some of the issues, but I really appreciate the passion and being forced to think through our decisions.

One thought, which I am honestly not sure how I feel about...what if we rotated the sink 90deg? Since we are using a wall-mount faucet, we could do that, and it would add 5" of counter. If we then pushed the sink as far towards the center as possible, we could end up with @9" of landing space on the smaller side, instead of the current 4" or so. What's the general reaction to that idea?

Addressing a couple of minor points...

bmorepanic, there is already a cabinet there next to the office door, so no need to tape it out - we know what it is like in this configuration. It hasn't been an issue; with the angled entrance, and the long space to the sink run, it is far less awkward than it looks like it would be.

davidro1 - Yeah, there are 2 entrances (3 counting the office, but it is essentially a nook off the kitchen, with no connections to other rooms). One entrance (on the right side) opens onto a hallway that runs parallel to the 44" wall. The other opens onto the butler pantry, which in turn opens onto the dining room. Its an old building with its original 1910 floorplan and walls, so there are lots of little spaces - kind of the opposite of modern trends. The 2 windows behind the sink run and the one behind the butler pantry area are onto a lightwell, which contains a deck and potted plants. There is also a window in the hallway accross from the right side doorway, opening onto our building's other lightwell.

The Blanco 3-in-1 basket strainer is Blanco item #441231.

jsceva rotating the sink will work. It will give you even more arm room and a wider ledge to perch things. I can find the name of another sink that has sold well, that has a rotated sink about that size in it. It's a composite sink made of two sinks welded together, and the total space is 24"width. I didn't mention rotating because it's the last thing to consider after the other two things.

Now I see the sink drain basket strainer #441231.

I have a Blanco 441231. It's awesome!

Wow, it's definitely different! I'm not sure why you want to have the sink so squished into the corner (I know it's already been addressed, but missed the answer as to why the sink can't be moved to the larger countertop run). Also, if you have fridge drawers on each side of the range...where are you keeping your pots and pans?

It's a very well-thought out detailed, kitchen...but it doesn't seem like the actual layout is well planned. I think drawers for pots and pans on each side of the range make a lot more sense. It will all 'look' very pretty, but as Hollysprings said...it could be a lot more functional.

Sorry to sounds negative, because I'm usually known as 'the cheerleader' :)

Count me in the camp that asks you to please reconsider placing the sink on the larger counter run. It really will make your kitchen work like a big kitchen and not the small kitchen it is.

I remember the first time I got glasses. I didn't know that trees had leaves! Well, at least not visible leaves. I don't think you are seeing the leaves.

Holly, by your analogy, Kitchen Designers are, um, sex therapists! LOL! At least that's a profession where people come to you wanting to make things better! It seems that all too often that people view a KD as a glorified draftsman there to use the software only because a client can't.

The thing is, the OP wants cheerleaders--that's what he asked for. You couldn't pay me to have the kitchen he's designing and building, no matter how nice or expensive the finishes are. But if it's what the OP wants, it's what he's going to build.

It just makes some of the TKO folks sad to see a kitchen they can't imagine being able to work in.

(BTW, Holly, I *loved* your analogy.)

lavender_lass, I don't know why having pots and pans next to the range is is any way more convenient than having them across from the range. Maybe I am missing something, but I just don't get it. Not being rude - just not understanding why its an issue. Maybe you can enlighten me?

In general, I never would have thought the sink placement would be such a point of contention, or raise such passions. What's funny is that we actually thought long and hard about this, and tried to consciously use a Kaizen process to determine what was the most streamlined and efficient arrangement for everything for the tasks we regularly undertake in the kitchen.

Again, I do think the criticisms about the sink being "squished in the corner" are valid. That aspect is definitely not set in stone. As I said above, until very near the end of the process the sink was actually on the right side of that run, with the sink on the left. My wife wanted to swap it, pretty much purely on aesthetic grounds, and I agreed maybe without thinking it through enough. Insofar as the placement of the sink in that run, goes, however, that is not going to change. That's the wall where the sink is now, and by keeping it on that wall we avoid having to undertake any significant plumbing work, we avoid having the sink break up the visuals impact of the long run of cabinets, we make the sink convenient to the dining room and butlers pantry for drinking water and filling the coffee machine (without the person doing so having to walk through the actual cooking zone), and we get good light and a view since the window is right there.

I sincerely think the concerns over adjacent counter space are overblown. I have never once wished for more space around the sink than I have, and I don't think it is just a matter of not missing what I have never had....I try to picture what I would do with such space, an I can't come up with anything. Maybe a big part of the issue is I really don't use my sink much to prep. I rinse off leafy vegetables and clean mushrooms and similar at the very start of prep, and I rinse off potatoes again after they are peeled, but that's really it. If I need to actually cut something up by the sink, I have space on the dishwasher side, and I can always put a cutting board partially over the sink itself if that is necessary.

I know that I am never going to convince a lot of you on this issue, that is OK. Bottom line is the kitchen is FULL of trade-offs, and to move the sink elsewhere would mean losing or changing things that are far more important to us.

ps - I have to admit, if we took out the wall between the kitchen and butler pantry we could avoid all (or most) of these issues, and it would be more functional. I argued for that, actually....but my wife has strong - and irrational - feelings about retaining that wall, and I lost the argument. I accepted that and moved on.

Wow. This is a passionate issue.

I am really not getting it. Can't imagine working in the kitchen? Comparable to never getting to have an orgasm? "I want to shoot myself just writing about it"?

Overdramatic much?

Anyway...lets stop beating this dead horse, ok? Please?

OK, it's not a safety issue, so well, :) it's your loss, but I give up on moving the sink. I've got one more suggestion. It's quirky, but it goes with a quirky older house. What about pass-through at counter height from the butler's pantry to the sink area? The same counter could be used, so the surface would be continuous, but you could have a roll up door to block off the view when you didn't want it. That would give you extra "plunk" space for dirty dishes awaiting the DW and other sink tasks.

I do think this will be one of the most visually striking kitchens that this board has seen in a while! The luscious chocolate of the range and hood will make you crave desserts constantly!

Jsceva- Probably because I have heavy pots and pans! LOL

As for not moving the sink...that is obviously up to you and your wife. It sounds like it's just the two of you (that was probably mentioned, before) so there may not be that many dishes or kids running in, to get a drink, while you're trying to prep. If this is more of a 'one cook' kitchen, it will probably work fine.

Bottom line, you'll ALWAYS get people on the forum, who want you to have a prep sink, a separate clean up area, a prep area and a cooking area...because that's the most functional way to set up a kitchen...especially a larger one. If you don't mind the lack of space around the sink, an extra step or two to get pots/pans, and having the fridge drawers by the range (are you sure there aren't any heat/cool issues with that?) then you'll probably be very happy with the layout.

I think most people see the plan and it looks like you've spent a GREAT deal of time choosing finishes and appliances (focusing on how it all would look) rather than how it will function. That's been debated MANY times on the forum...form vs. function...and it can sometimes be a bit of a heated debate.

Bottom line...it's your kitchen, so if you love it, you'll probably be very happy. Personally, I would want an eating area, in a cottage style kitchen. I'll probably sacrifice a little function for form, too. You just have to find a trade off that works, for you :)

Overdramatic much?

It will take a few days to pick my jaw off the floor at someone who comes on this forum, posts a layout and then has the cheek to call its generous contributors "overdramatic."

Here is a link that might be useful: Judith Jones, editor of Mastering the Art of French Cooking

I am really not trying to argue this to death, really. I am just a bit overwhelmed by the ...intensity?... of the responses.

I am a bit sad that everyone assumes we didn't think about function...cause we did, we really did. We spent a very long time planning what would go where in drawers and cabinets, for example. Its just that I had some big limitations that were essentially beyond my control, and within those limitations I came to some controversial conclusions about the best functionality for us, in our specific circumstances. I am not trying to convince anyone else to do it our way, or that our plan should necessarily be adopted as a model for anyone else. I don't know why I keep responding to those who want to move the sink...its like picking at a scab. Just can't stop myself.

Here's a little bit of missing background....we are only 2 people, and I am the chef/baker. One of the reasons I really wanted a long continuous counter area was that I do a lot of cookie and pastry work, and need a lot of space to roll out dough, etc. I am the only one who ever uses the kitchen. My wife never cooks or cleans in the kitchen, ever - she has no interest in doing so. At most, she comes in to fill a water pitcher or grab a drink from the refrigerator, or very rarely to heat up a meal I prepared for her in advance. She does, however, have very strong opinions on how things should look. No walls coming down or moving. No stainless steel (or at least as little as possible). No exposed ventilation grills (i.e., no undercabinet refrigerators or freezers) on the long run you can see from the dining room. No tall cabinets if we could avoid them. And to be blunt, she is the one paying for this, so her desires really do have to be taken into account. The entire process became a give and take between my functional desires and her aesthetic desires. As is probably true in any such process, the final choices are all compromises, but they are conscious compromises and we are quite happy with them.

Finally...Marcolo, on the internet it is notoriously hard to tell if someone is joking or not. I am going to assume that your last response is a joke...on that basis, I have to admit it is really well done and applaud your effort. I apologize if I came off wrong in the post you are replying to.

Jsceva- That makes a lot of sense! It seemed like how the kitchen looked from the dining room was very important...and it is. Nothing wrong with that, but it explains a lot. She's form and you're function! It also makes sense that you don't need a lot of room around the sink, since you're pretty much in there, by yourself.

As for the baking area...I COMPLETELY understand your desire for one long countertop area. What kind of pasty work, do you like to do? I really want a little baking area with a marble slab. My baking is more of the cookie/cake/muffins with nieces and nephews, but I'd love to branch out. I am going to be making apple spice cake and maybe apple pies (although my mom is the pie guru of our family) when the apples are ripe. Hopefully, in the next few days! :)

jsceva, the sink run with the original plumbing is fine. It is enough for you, for me and for someone else who says it's enough. It's a very small space kitchen. I also like the huge run of counter, un-sinked.

Yes, I would call the orgasm metaphor overdramatic. And I'd say that never experiencing a functional kitchen isn't even in the same ballpark.

Jsceva, it's true that a sink that butts up to a wall isn't ideal but having lived with one for many years, it's not the end of the world. Your explanation for why you need an uninterrupted long stretch of counter for baking makes your choice understandable. It's all about tradeoffs with a small kitchen. However, I'd reconsider swapping the sink and DW. It would only be about one step further from the DR to the faucet and you would have less of a view of dishes piled up next to the sink from the DR it the DW were against the wall. The sink and faucet would be slightly more accessible to the prep and cooking zones as well. Good luck and please post pics when finished. I'd love to see this kitchen when finished.

In a small kitchen it's smart to store pots and pans opposite the cooktop because you can swivel around, grab something and pivot back.

In a small kitchen it's smart to keep the existing walls of a tiny pantry because it preserves the illusion of having way more space. It is trompe-l'oeil in a general way, because it reinforces the illusion of a larger real space behind the door. When you close the pantry door, you do not see all the corners of your space, and for some people this is a big plus. For the same reason, millions of houses are built so as to prevent people from seeing everything all in one look when they enter: they are required to go through a vestibule and even a hallway... For some people it is important to keep guests wondering about how much real extra space there is in this apartment (or house), so a closed pantry is a plus.

To pick nits I'll comment on the elevation plan of the Kvarnum Kok uppers and drawers. First, have fewer drawers, all wider. Then, have an internal drawer inside some of the deep drawers, or vary the depths of the drawers instead of having the center row be the same depth as the bottom row. Even Ikea does this. In the uppers you have a bit of space lost to the frames, which can be reworked to optimize space. In the base cabinets, you are better off going all frameless, and this will give you a large increase in useable storage room. Frameless base, framed uppers. The look will still be "good". In fact, trompe-l'oeil, it will look framed everywhere.

Hth

lavender_lass - I mostly do pretty simple things, a lot of pies/tarts/galettes (pate brise and pate sucre) and similar. Moving into more yeast doughs right now, trying to learn them. I do a lot of cookies of the rolled and cut variety, which takes a lot of space.

davidro1 - You are completely on the money on how we could make the long run more efficient...all of that was what I originally pushed for, but it fell before the strong desires of my wife. In the end, that wall became less "what's ideal" and more "what can I make work." Probably the best example of that is the area with the staggered shelves, what Kvanum calls a "seaman's chest" unit. From the first day we saw the Kvanum showroom, my wife instantly gravitated to that unit and asked, everytime we saw it, "are we going to have that?" I resisted it for a very long time, but in the end I figured out that I could have room for everything I needed while still letting her have this feature. So I just said OK, and let her have it purely on the grounds she wanted it so much. For anyone else who doesn't have a similar spouse situation, I 100% agree with how you would propose changing it. On the positive side, since we are taking the wall cabinets to the ceiling and adding base drawers where a fridge is now, we are at least overall adding a bunch of storage. I am fairly tall, so the wall cabinet shelves are useful for me.

Thanks to everyone with the positive comments...I am 85% convinced to swap the dishwasher and sink back around at this point, just so you know...

What kind of flooring do you have now? I've heard it mentioned by some on GW that they get tired standing on tile and that wood is less fatiguing. So, I like your hardwood floor idea for that reason alone. The tiles you've selected are beautiful and classy.

Jsceva, you have a unique design that is full of compromises and reflects YOUR space, needs, and wants. This forum has many members who are, indeed, passionate about kitchens design, and as a result have VERY strong reactions to designs they disapprove of. Join the club, my design has been panned to death and censured very harshly, with MANY assumptions of my motivations and decision-making. Bottom line is, no one here has seen your space in person, moved around in it, or experienced your family's cooking and kitchen habits. Your plan is real life, where you can't have everything you want or to NKBA standard. People here tend to assume that if it is possible on paper, there is no good reason to not follow those guidelines. That's just not true for many of us.
I say, you have received feedback to make you think of reason, potentials, drawbacks, and improvements of what you have. You'll make the decisions that will work best for you, your space will be gorgeous, and any mistakes will still give you a better kitchen than you have now. Enjoy it, you deserve it with all the hard work you've put into it so far!

leave the sink closer to the wall = the space feels like it has big countertops.

leave the sink closer to the wall = enough ledge on the left hand side, to perch things.

Those Kvanum Kok cabs are so beautiful - I love the Sundby and Broby lines. Just curious - Why did you go with Kvanum Kok? Quality, etc.? I'm looking at painted inset right now so I was just wondering... They remind me of Neptune but I haven't priced out either of them yet. Btw, those Ann Sacks porcelain tiles are so unique - can't wait to see your pics.

Why did we go with Kvanum Kok?

Easy answer - because we pass their showroom frequently, and my wife fell in love with them the first time we saw them. Plus, we both wanted as much wood as possible, including in the drawer construction etc...we looked at Siematic also, for example (which would honestly have been far more practical, in terms of efficiency for the space),but the metal drawers really turned my wife in particular off - plus they were even more expensive. Kvanum has a lot of nice details...hand painted on-site finish, dovetailed drawers, interesting shelving and detail options, nice internal organization options, and they also fairly recently added the option to have the interiors of the cabinets and shelving all be oiled oak veneer, which is very rich looking with the painted exteriors, instead of white or painted. In person, everything about them screams quality, and they are just put together really well with a lot of attention to detail. The fact that they are so unique and uncommon is also selling point, if I am being honest with myself...but I like to think it is more than that. Finally, I love the fact that they are scandinavian...we have a lot of Danish Modern furniture in the house (for example, our dining room table and chairs), so its kind of a theme for the house.

The biggest downside is the cost, both monetarily and ecologically, of shipping cabinets halfway around the world. I am sure we could have saved a lot of money going more local, and I am 100% positive that we could have gotten 90% of the look for 2/3 of the price. I can't really justify going with Kvanum other than by illogical gut desire.

Our current floor is really bad square ceramic tile...contractor grade, chipped, ugly color. We have wood floors in the rest of the house. I don't have a problem with standing on the hard surface, and it is worth it to me for the increased durability and water-proofness of the tile floor. The reason wood is a backup is because our floor is currently quite uneven, and our KD is worried about the cost of levelling it enough to use such big tiles (the current are like 8" square, but the Xylem boards are about 36x8). We are waiting for the contractor to give us a firm opinion/estimate on it. If it is too expensive, we will do probably oak planks stained/died a similar dark Wenge-ish color.

Thanks for all the info! One question: have you seen the cabs hand-painted (i.e., in the store?) I'm just curious because I've heard from a number of cab makers that hand painting is very popular right now -- I don't think I'll do it though since we have 2 young boys and durability is a concern. Having said that, though, fixing hand-painted cabs is probably a lot easier than touching up conversion varnished/sprayed/ or lacquered cabs. Sorry to bug you, but did you go through that decision process - you sound like a big researcher, like I am.

The interior oiled wood drawers sound beautiful! (espec for glass fronted cabs). KD Mick de Guilio's does that a ton - although I think he has a partnership with Siematic (particularly their Beaux Arts line). I'm really excited to see the final product - don't forget to keep us all in the loop :).

I have seen both the hand painted and spray painted cabinets in the showroom, side by side. They hand-paint their inset line (Vikby, Dalby, Broby and Sundby), but spray their partial overlay line (Linne, Sparre, Kruse, Essen, Tegner) an retro (Baner) lines. The difference is interesting. The spray is a little glossier and a lot smoother on the spray version - both in not having any brush strokes and also in showing less grain through from the wood. It isn't as rich as the hand-brushed.

I'd say that to me the hand-brushed clearly looks better, but not by a gigantic margin. The spray still looks very good. I don't know about relative durability or ease of repair. We don't have kids or pets, so wasn't as urgent a consideration.

Hope that helps.

Hey thanks! I had an orgasm when I saw that lift oven!!

So is that what they mean by "appliance porn?"

You might want to be careful, I am pretty sure that kind of thing is illegal in a few states.

Thx for the hand painted info too! I wish all cab makers could just have a sample of both on hand - both methods have their own pro's and cons. Thx so much - can't wait to see the cabs installed. I'm sure you'll be thrilled - and it's a great opportunity for folks to see that line.

Swooning over that AS tile, and I love the looks of the wood-grained porcelain, although my own back can't take a tiled kitchen floor. But tile is so practical for sluicing-type cleanup. And Kvanum Kok is the bee's knees.

Re.: sink to the left of the DW: since you have an open doorway to the left of it (it's not stuck in a full-on walled up corner) perhaps you won't have the left elbow banging issues folks above are predicting.

If you keep it there, have you considered putting simple inset shelves into the wall above the left of the sink? Might be a great way to open up that space a bit more, plus provide a place to store soap bottles, potato scrubbers, etc, for easy access.

Alternately, I'd consider putting the sink to the right of the DW for the sole reason that it then hides all washing-up detritus that's on the counter from the view of the dining room.

Small spaces can be so daunting. Courage!