Need to finalize plans, please review with me?

11 years ago

My contractor wants to meet soon to finalize everything and I am having committment issues. :)

Here's what I think might be my final plans maybe? I don't want to finish this project and wish I'd have planned something different.

Drumroll...

My space

Plans

The current state of affairs:

Similar view from the Planner:

What do you all think? Time to pull the trigger? I am open to any ideas, even a total redesign isn't out of the question. Like I said, I don't want to wind up wishing we'd done something different...

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Comments (8)

rhome410
11 years ago
I'm very worried about your statements regarding not wanting to do this project...???

This plan looks ok. I am not sure the trash is at all a good spot and do you plan to have the seating counter lower than the rest? It could be a more useful counter at all one height. But otherwise, I think the function of the layout should be nice.

Oh...the stove wall might need some help with design/balance.
thirdkitchenremodel
Original Author
11 years ago
Oh I want to do the project, I just want to be thoroughly happy at the end and not have regrets at the end. My husband will tell you that I am the Queen of "oh I wish I would have done this different and that would have been better another way"...

Where do you think is a better location for the trash? I was thinking closer to the fridge which is why it ended up there, but maybe in the island is better? Or should it be closer to the sink? In our last house we had 2 tall kitchen cans front to back in an 18" pullout, that worked pretty well.

How to balance the range wall? I agree it doesn't look quite right, but I can't put my finger on how to improve it. I must have put together 20 different cabinet arrangements and didn't love any of them...

Thanks for the help!
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I knew a lady who had a 'Formal Room'. Her house was known, locally, as "The Castle", and was a Tudor dating from 1925. Anyway, the 'Formal Room' was a large walk-in closet next to the kitchen, where, when the maids weren't doing anything else, they could go and get a 'Formal' (party dress/evening gown), and "iron-on-it" for awhile. The lady's daddy had owned a beer joint, but she'd been Miss-something-or-other, and had snagged the richest boy around. It was real smart of her to have 'The Formals' where the maids could grab one, when the Lady of the House, or her Daughter, called from upstairs, or from the Country Club, and said, "Vinah! Git me thaaayit blue Dior ready. Wuhrrr goin' ta thuh University Club tanite!", or "Git me up some formals, Queen Esther! Tha inlaws are flyin' us up ta thuh KENtucky Derby." That 'Formal Room', now that you've jogged my memory, was probably the house's original Pantry, and is roughly the size of YOUR pantry. In fact, your house is roughly the same size as 'The Castle'. And its facade seems about as complex and expensive-to-build as 1920s Tudor architecture. Yours is a HUGE, luxurious house, by most people's standards. So, I'm baffled as to why the dining table is relegated to a 13'x13' 'Dining Area' off the Kitchen. I'm guessing you're in someplace like Northern Michigan, where people are very unpretentious. But still, there seem to be a lot of people in your life, and jamming them all into that little space, when food seems rather important in the scheme of things (the well-developed kitchen... the large pantry....) would seem to potentially make for tense and unpleasant meals, when the whole family is together. We recently moved back South, when it turned out we'd taken over another corporation (honestly, I didn't mean to...), and someone was offering us too much money on our almost-complete house outside Portland, and somebody else took our lowball offer on a silly, overgrown "Old-South-Style-Dream-Home" (on considerable acreage, with millions in landscaping and embassy-style electric fencing that we were getting basically for-free). As much as I hate Mississippi, all those tempting numbers made the move back home impossible to resist. So, here we sit. This house had the typical tiny, prissy little Dining Room, just big enough to hold the previous Owner's "Mamaw's (Grandma's) Mahogany Dining Set from Montgomery Ward" (C. 1957). The space was too small. It became my husband's Library. Stretching across the back of "The Gracious Mansion" was some bizarre free-flowing conglomeration of space, that was a den/great room... something... I had that space gutted before I even let my Decorator in the door. Didn't want to give him a cerebral hemorrhage... and it's cheaper to let your design team know the raw dimensions from the get-go. They're going to come in and take measurements, and photograph every stub-up and framing anomaly... So I had studs, sub-floor - tutto - sprayed in white primer, before they arrived. Well, I had sold our Portland house before I was able to use my custom table built for 30. But that table (and a kitchen designed for caterers) turned out to have made the house irresistible to my Best Friend's Daughter, who ONLY entertains formally, and otherwise has meals across the meadow at her Parents' house. I have a history of selling my houses to pairs of surgeons. These particular surgeons, despite their youth, paid cash. Seems they'd each been letting their trust incomes pile-up while they were in residency. Good kids. So, here, in my newly-acquired bargain manse, I wanted the same thing: long table, with three big chandeliers overhead... lots of sconces, mulberry silk shades for really soft lighting... but with a big, long buffet, because this IS the South, and we ALL dine buffet-style. In Portland, caterers and rent-a-butlers are fun people. In Mississippi, they're failed actors and musicians, and are bitter, spiteful little bundles of passive aggression. And anyway, everybody at our table here, even when there are 30, are 'family' in some way, and the Caterers really don't need to overhear whatever schemes we're hatching, or whatever dirt we're dishing. Although we use fancy plates and fancy goblets and Whiting's 'Lily' flatware from 1902, we DON'T DINE FORMALLY. Everybody's too busy, and it's basically an open-house-in-the-Dining-Room: arrive at some approximate hour, grab a plate, leave whenever... But the table seats an easy 30 (three feet for each person), with blazing chandeliers overhead, and my favorite ancestor, a banker from Riga, glowering over everybody, from the center of the longest wall. It's a practical room: brick herringbone floors that can be mopped with strong soaps; fractionally non-parallel walls for better accoustics; embossed velvet 'papering' the walls, for even better accoustics; a tented ceiling where it once 'cathedraled', for soaking-up our family's cacophony; sturdy chairs, and a sturdy table... And "immediate family", for us, can easily fill the room. We totally fill up the room with people, at least once a week. I'm thinking that you're happy 'Yoopers' (or some sort of Central European/Alpine types, in a snowy part of America) with none of our Southern pretensions or obsessions. But still: wouldn't you be able to use an old-style English 'Long Room', with a long, rugged refectory/trestle table (a long, narrow, rustic table), in a more expansive space? A refectory table can be used for reading, computing, etc., when not used for dining. What I see on those plans just seems like the 'kitchenette' in a 1950s tract house... a tract house that just grew and grew. Your house is the size of a MANSION, but the dining area is like a breakfast nook in Levittown.
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Without the dimensions being readable, we can still see a number of things: - Are you building this house with a huge budget? I ask because you have a super-complicated footprint; a massive, complicated roof; and plumbing strung from one end of the house to the other. The front elevation is overly ornate and busy -- so much so that I don't like it: too many materials, too many focal points. These are some of the most expensive choices you can make, and they add nothing to the functionality or comfort of the house. Personally, I would simplify, simplify, simplify. - I see two rooms that would benefit from more windows: The master bedroom could potentially have windows on three sides, which would make it lovely! And the hearth room is an adorable room . . . but I would move the fireplace and built-ins to the garage wall, allowing more windows on the exterior wall. - The TWO garages are blocking natural light from a great deal of the house. I'd consider making one of these a detached garage -- it'll look better AND make the house more comfortable. I do like the casual entrance from the garage and how it works from both garages. I'd move the garage that sticks out from the front -- the garage is always a house's least-attractive feature. If you have any choice at all, I wouldn't showcase it out front. - The kitchen and dining area look good, and you have a good connection to the outside. - The master bath has a great deal of empty, open space in the center. This is just cold, wasted space. I'd shrink this down a bit. You have FIVE doors in that overly compartmentalized bath. - The upstairs closets both provide only the space of a walk-in. If you were to add only 2' to each one, you would DOUBLE their storage space. It would be space well spent.
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Thanks for all of the reviews. I will make sure to change the swing of the bathroom doors and will most likely make the pantry door a single outward swinging door. As for the family room, it's 18 x 18'2 including fireplace and built-ins. I'd like it a little bigger but we're tweaking an original plan and trying to only make minor changes to keep the costs down. I think since it's an open plan, I'm ok with the size. I've measured the size against our current family room and I've seen pictures of the family room in a built house and it seems large enough. lyfia, I hear what you're saying about the location of the laundry room but it doesn't really bother me. As for the front porch, I think it's 7' but that is the one last thing I have to confirm. I agree that 7' should be the minimum. Yes, we'll change the french doors to sliders. That works much better. gobruno, I hear what you're saying about the bedroom with the small dormer as the only source of natural light. Unfortunately, in order to keep the elevation the same, I don't think there's much we can do. I'm going to look at pictures of larger dormers to see if we want to make them larger. There are skylights in the playroom but I think we're going to add a large dormer instead. Thank you all for the reviews!
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I'm concerned that you are going to find that your deep drawers under the baking center aren't big enough for what you want to put in them. With our 36" high counters and frameless cabinets, we have a bit over 28" of interior height in the boxes - the rest of the 36" is toe kick, cabinet box top and bottom and counter thickness. With 30", you will have about 22" to play - or less if you have framed. Your picture shows 3 equal size drawers - that means 7 or maybe 7.5" drawer face height. It varies a bit depending on the exact drawer construction, but interior drawer height will be about an inch less than that making your deep drawers about 6" deep. We have an 18" wide drawer stack for baking supplies. Our flour and sugar drawer interior is 10" high and 15" wide (those pesky cabinet box and drawer sides take up the rest). We decided on that height after measuring convenient flour storage containers. At that size it can hold a container with the sugars and 2 5-lb flour containers and a few smaller bags and boxes or 1 5-lb flour container and more smaller bags and boxes. We have ended up doing the latter. Our bread flour (because challah gets made every week) is stored there along with corn meal, cocoa, flax seed and some specialty flours. All purpose and whole wheat have to be fetched from the pantry. I wouldn't want to go any smaller than that. BTW, that is in our bottom drawer - since the containers are mostly tall, it requires less bending to get them than having small stuff where you need to reach to the bottom of the drawer. A slightly shallower drawer (7" drawer front) holds other baking supplies like baking powder, baking soda, etc. A much shallower drawer can hold a lot of the utensils. Our main pot and pan drawers are about as deep as our flour drawer. One 36" x 11" (drawer front dimensions - interior about 33" by 10") drawer holds a pretty complete set of everyday pots and pans (we have one for milk and one for meat plus a couple of smaller drawers for parve). Therefore, rather than having three drawers about the same height, I'd suggest a deep bottom drawer (10" interior depth at least), a medium size (~6" interior) middle drawer and a shallow top drawer. That's if you are going frameless and your cabinet construction is similar to ours. For framed, it might be best to go with just 2 drawers per stack. One use for the 9" cabinet by the range would be storing flat pan items such as cookie sheets, baking sheets and cooling racks. If they are half sheet size laying on their sides, that would take up the bottom 13" of the cabinet. We have ours in a 12" wide cabinet and 6 of each plus a couple of muffin tins take up the bottom. We have a pull out for other cake pans above. It might be tight to do 2 levels of 13" high flat pan storage. If you had a fixed shelf in just the right spot, you could do it. Our cooling racks and muffin tins are less then 13". You might do the bigger sheet pans on the bottom and smaller ones like muffin tins above. Cutting board storage is another possible use. Our food processor accessories are in a custom insert that my husband made for a pull out in another 12" cabinet. I don't think they would fit in a pullout in a 9" cabinet, but maybe if yours is smaller they might. 16" is very deep for a bookshelf. Is the cabinet to the right of the range all bookshelf? We have 12" to the left of our rangetop. It isn't ideal, but it works for us. What is the rationale for wanting at least 16" to the side of the range "for safety" when 4" at the back of the range is okay with you? We have an island rangetop and really like having the rangetop and prep sink on our island. But I'd rather have a foot of counter behind the range. If you had the space, you could do 12" deep cabinets on the back of the range. Rather than looking for cabinet companies with nifty inserts, I'd look for how they use the space in the cabinet - how much interior space do you get for a particular size cabinet or drawer. I think that the microwave will be really difficult to use where you show it. It will have to be accessed from the side making the panel difficult to read. Perhaps you are taller than me, but you mentioned kiddie cups so I assume that you have kids. That height and sideways access will make it difficult for your kids to use when they are old enough. I'd put it under the cabinet to the right of the fridge in the snack area. You might at least have an outlet there for it in case you find the other location inconvenient. The open shelves to the left of the sink would bother me. They will interfere with use of the counter to the left of the sink and you have minimal counter to the right of the sink. I'd suggest getting rid of them or doing only one shelf for more clearance between the counter and the shelf.
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lavender_lass
11 years ago
If there's enough room...I think I would make it an L-shaped kitchen with a larger island. Have it open up more to the brick fireplace and kitchen table, with maybe a French country style. You can always make the island bigger and have the stools on two sides, closest to the fireplace end.

Maybe center the range, so it's centered by the upper cabinets, not the lower ones? Oh, and the fridge might move up to the end of the sink wall, with an oven/microwave on the back wall. Just a few ideas :)
sofla
11 years ago
The 30in set of drawers to the left of the dish machine, if you are unloading the machine and want to place items in those drawers , it would be difficult to get to. I would rethink that. The garbage I would put in the island behind the sink or to the right of sink. I would move the refrig over to the left leaving open counter to the right so when you come in from garage with groceries you can set items or your purse down. I would open it up and put a longer island in, cookbook shelve on one end of island or if seating is needed, have it one level. Balance out the area over the cooktop. I 'm not crazy about looking at the side of the pantry next to refrig. Don't rush into it. I changed my kitchen plans many times and second guessed myself throughout the entire process.
williamsem
11 years ago
I'm no design expert, but I always go with more ideas is better.

I would put the range centered in the wall between the window and sliding door, 30 inch drawers on each side, properly vented hood (easier on an outside wall) 36 inches as shown, with 24 inch uppers on either side. Leave sink centered in window, might be a good place to put in a double trash pull out like you stated you enjoyed having before. I have learned a lot here, and consensus seems to be most prep will be between range and sink, and most garbage is created in prep. Most time is also spent prepping and you will be near that nice window.

For the fridge, I'd suggest either move to the end of the wall where the range is now and keep the breakfast area with MW next to the fridge, put a pantry where the fridge is now (large shallow one, or keep the depth and make a large step in one). Or move the breakfast area and MW to the end of that current range wall, leave the fridge where it is and make the remaining space a pantry.

You can still have an island if you want, and out seating there.

If you like the peninsula you have now, I have a friend with the same type of layout and she LOVES having her peninsula seating lower like you pictured. It's great for her little girl, older relatives, and handicap uncle. She often has family over and it is used frequently.
herbflavor
11 years ago
the biggest decision is whether to convert to L with nicer island as lass alludes to. While you ponder that decision, I would place fridge where microwave is. Streamline the microwave and pantry to the right of fridge and face it outward. To the left of range hood I would do a dbl door cab-each door is the same size as the cabinet to the right of hood-it would be about a 30 in cab...all the doors around the hood are about the same size. Omit the cookbook cubicles. To the left of the 30 in cabinet, insert a cabinet that the tambour drops down from to counter. I woudn't have such a tall tambour-i think you'll tire of it. You'll get better storage over to the right of fridge that you'll access more once you turn it inward-put some tambour stored items there. [I'd omit the tambour entirely]. If you do the L shape you'll probably have cabs to the left of kitchen sink window-so there's a bit of reworking if you decide to switch the whole thing. I think the U shape you have is really fine....the central island you show is proportionately off-so I might make more of a free standing cart with chopping surface-do something more eyecatching with open shelf and legs-do you really need those drawers there? The cooks stool can be at an open side of this central piece-I think the alcove on the peninsula for a cooks stool is a mistake-wouldn't do it. I like the big U in many regards.
thirdkitchenremodel
Original Author
11 years ago
The island is problematic because there is juuuust barely enough room... for a super skinny island, 24" wide at most. When the dishwasher door is open it will block access to the sink. The fridge would open on the seating side and will back up to a MAJOR traffic path, which I think would annoy me and everyone in the household:

36" aisle between sink and island, 60" between island and fridge:

Long story longer, I feel like the peninsula plan is better for other reasons as well. The lowered, table height seating is more accomodating for our autistic son who will spend a good amount of time sitting there. He likes the FR/kitchen area and I like to be able to keep an eye on him, especially while preparing food.

All that said, I have some questions about my peninsula plan:

Does this plan for the range wall look more balanced? I've allowed to widen the doorway to the kitchen and also moved the trash to the pullout by the corner:

{{!gwi}}
{{!gwi}}

I ditched the island for a movable cart and put a folding countertop extension at the end of the peninsula for a 5th seat if we need it in a pinch (98% of the time it will be folded down) I might not even build it, its just something someone suggested on another thread and I'm trying it out:

{{!gwi}}

I also shortened up the U, is having the DW near the corner like that going to be a problem if we have the proper amount of fillers? I could insert a cabinet to put more space between the DW and the corner...

the overall view from the end of the FR:

Any feedback and ideas are appreciated! It all makes me consider and reconsider my options which in the end will lead to the best plan for my fam. Thanks! :)
rhome410
11 years ago
Sorry I missed that you'd come back with questions to my original comments.

I do like the range wall better now. Do you need the tambour door cabinet? It's probably just the limitations of the drawing, but it doesn't seem to fit the resst of the room. Your original set up would've worked, I think, with just a wide upper between the wall and the narrow cabinet next to the hood.

The dw next to the peninsula is a bad idea if you need to open the peninsula drawers while the dishwasher is open.

The trash should be near where you prep and cook, and if possible, where it's also reachable to scrape plates, etc. when doing dishes. In the original plan, I would've chosen to put it in the island or in the 18" cabinet to the right of the sink. In the new one, the sink wall is changed and you've eliminated the island, so it's not as easy to choose a new location.

Need to finalize plans, please review with me?

Comments (8)

rhome410

thirdkitchenremodel
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Need to finalize plans, please review with me?

Comments (8)

rhome410

thirdkitchenremodelOriginal Author

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