In case you know the history of the layout evolution and forgot what the galley looks like.

Of all the options I've come up as a back up to the galley option; I think I like this one best (for now). So I know I'm probably missing something I'm not seeing. It doesnt' have as much storage as the galley but I'm looking at, if I can't sell the galley concept.... does this work? I'd really appreciated your uncut version of input.

The galley is a lot better. In the galley, I would go ahead and move the island about one foot south so the sun room is about 10 feet wide and the island is centered on the wall section. And that would allow you to have the tv somewhere else. Mounting the tv so low and in danger of water spills is probably not the best solution.

Following is an uncut opinion of the bow-front kitchen. I'm not known for tact. You have been warned! Save yourself and stop reading now!

The space looks cramped and the aisles are too small - 30" in front of a dw isn't a good idea. The sitting area is only 7 feet wide. It would be one thing if you were trying to use the entire space as kitchen - a bow front like that with comfy stools might be great in florida. You'd have just enough room left for low shelving under the windows. But wide enough for stuff for a relaxing room with furniture?

I am unusually aware of the relationship between the kitchen and a back door because we cook outside a lot during the good weather (in mid-atlantic) and I am always dragging in something from the garden (either green things or mud stuck on shoes!). I'm not sure you'd like the serpentine paths after a while.

If I was going to do the bow front, I can't meet all of your criteria as well as the galley but here goes nuthin...
{{!gwi}}

I don't do curves well, but its a curvy counter leading to a banquette with a curvy end where it meets the cabinet run. I sorta wanted to do a curvy wall leading to the pantry too.

I think that in the original galley plan everything lined up evenly on the south end and it didn't protrude into the sun room?

Sorry, I haven't answered anything about this new plan, because it wasn't one I could like. There have been better ones for that side of the room. I think you don't see what we see in the use of the sun room. Have you ever done any kind of mockup in which you leave 7 ft to arrange furniture? A chaise in the corner shoved up against the windows wouldn't be a comfortable arrangement IMO...and not worth saving the room for. If the seating area is a priority, which it seems to be for your BF/DH, I think you need to determine what furniture he wants in there and arrange it suitably (hopefully finding a couple different options), then see what's left for the kitchen. If it takes up too much room, something needs to give. Do you really want to face the TV in that direction (toward the kitchen) while you have all those windows you've saved?

In other words, if you're saving the windowed space for a nice seating area, make sure it can be one.

I couldn't care less about a tv in the sunroom. How many TV's does a family of two need anyway?! Just another DH concession... Good point about what the room is suppose to be.

The bottom line is the galley gives him what he wants and me what I want with plenty of storage.

bmore... I love curves! The door is currently on the end as shown with the three large 9' windows. The windows are only about 17" off the ground... they at first really messed up any plan I came up with but I've since learned to embrace their presence. I could change them out but would really hate too since I love the light. If I did change them; I'd do counter height windows use the back for my kitchen and be done with it.

We were suppose to be renting the house out for a year to someone who needed some space but we haven't heard one word from him.... kinda weird. Anyway, I'm anticipating that we may be going forward with the remodel sooner then I thought.

Did we try this before? I'm thinking it must be close to some of the other plans. It started because I was trying to move the galley to the other side of the room. It didn't quite work and this is what evolved. Obviously for this exact plan, the wall behind the Advantium would have to extend just a bit. But I see, because of how things might line up, that the Advantium and/or the fridge...and maybe even the oven could be in the same run, but in the pantry, and probably still work. Moving something in there would give more counter around the stove and reduce the number of doors opening into the same space.

I thought maybe this was something like the galley and something like the 2 island plan.

This seems to hit on everything...Efficiency, views from kitchen and table while leaving the sun room completely open, room for your favorite table, even overhang seating that isn't a problem for the other room...although the seating doesn't get the view. Is there some reason I'm forgetting that makes this not work? Have we seen it before and discarded it for some reason that I don't remember?

I know the dishwasher is right behind the stove, which is something I'm completely against, but I didn't change the sink side around...I was just messing with the rest and figured the dw location can be adjusted later.

The fridge isn't accessible, obviously, from those outside the kitchen, but weren't you planning a beverage fridge somewhere? Maybe it could go in the cabinet that goes partially under the bar overhang...to the left of the big window.

Rhome... these two renderings do remind me of a couple plans that have passed by before. I remember I had one with the 4' of wall on the south end that I can "technically" remove out with a half wall like shown. That could work. I get the 4' of extra usable counter/cabinet space with the open feel. I had never though of scooting the sink run down closer to the opposite run. That's an interesting notion. It's not wide enough for an island unless I scoot it into the sunroom; which is what I tried above. It's apparent that doesn't work based on the feedback... it makes the sunroom pretty much unusable. I can't put the frig/pantry cabs as a solid run on that end of the ex-laundry room because the entrance into the music room is on that wall. Plus... the circuit panel is on the inside where the frig would butt up against. I had presented DH with the idea of putting a doorway into the music room in the the family room, pretty much where you walk into the house. He didn't think it would be all that convenient but it could possibly still be up for discussion if it "saved" some kind of agreed upon layout. That brings me back to the idea of taking out the 5' of wall where the uppers are and putting the frig there? I know you didn't like those layouts since you (and I ) felt that it was too removed from the rest of the kitchen and may feel like your working in a separate box. Do you think the frig could work there? I see if I can draw something up that combines the half wall on the south end and remove the wall where the uppers are to place the frig in there.

Shoot. I was hoping I had something here.

You enter the music room from inside the laundry room/pantry after going through the kitchen? If I'm understanding that right, I don't know how that could be 'convenient' either?

What are the dimensions of the pantry...Was it 7x10? I think the pantry I have drawn is just a sloppy guess not based on any real measurements. The electrical panel is on the wall to the left of the fridge as last shown? Isn't there another door and/or a window in the pantry, too? Please remind me of its details and limitations.

The music room was originally a garage. He enclosed it and made it into a third bedroom. So yes, there is a doorway that leads from the laundry into there on the south wall of the pantry. There is a closet in the converted garage that houses the air handler which backs up onto the 5' of wall on the south end of the kitchen that I can't remove in any of my zillion layouts. The pantry aka laundry room is 6x10. Right now there is a small window in the middle of the 10' wall in the pantry. The renters had built a storage room attached to the house that DH says will be easy to convert to a laundry if I make the 6x10 room a pantry. In that case we'd remove the window and make it a doorway. My concern with that is I will have to trudge through a door opening, through a pantry with open shelving and through the kitchen with a laundry basket. (Actually, he usually carries the laundry basket for me so it'll be him trudging). It just seems inconvenient and I still think the 6x10 room would be big enough to house a washer and dryer and pantry space unless I choose to take out the wall and incorporate it somehow into the kitchen. The electrical panel is on the wall to the left where the frig is. Another option would be to remove the small window in the pantry and have no opening into the added on storage room (which DH says he'll have to "shore up" since the renters didnt' built it properly) and just leave the storage room a storage room for pool toys, gardening stuff, whatever.

two very similar versions. I wasn't sure how far you meant I should make the walkway so the second one is further in then he first and I added an angled cab thing.

Number 2

I know the galley is better/different; but what do you think of this configuration in this use of space?
You know I appreciate you all

Is the pantry 6 ft wide on the north or south of the drawing?

Nevermind, I think you adjusted one wall to make your plan work, but that it's really 6 ft evenly, as is now?

Sorry for my poor quality. It's 6' even on both sides.

The floor plan shows the option with the wall removed, which is discussed more below.

With the wall left in it maybe gives your more options of how to use that cabinet/counter space in the pantry. You could have the laundry there, but might not want to if the wall is open. It could also be a craft area, baking area, pantry prep area, coffee area, or potting area...or your maybe even desk space. I like how it defines 2 separate but easily connected spaces, but there are plusses to having it open, too.

Why does it seem so much smaller to me with 4' aisles in this concept then in the galley concept? You really think I should make bring the run in that far? I think I prefer the open . I like the idea that you'd look in and see the frig... it makes it seem more like the space is incorporated into the kitchen.

I wouldn't want to work back and forth from sink to stove any more than 4 ft. I have 3 ft between my island and rangetop and it's a comfortable working distance. I'd need more, of course, if I had a dw opening into that aisle. For a one-person kitchen, 4 ft would be my maximum...But it's not my kitchen!

I have 5 feet and it's ok. It gives more room for passersby (that would be dh!) and others to reach the water or the ovens or whatever.

It might work well considering the ref location...

So you guys like it best with the frig facing into the kitchen like that? It's a great idea I never thought of before. If I'm not going to be able to get the galley and we decide on something like this; I think it allows me to maximize use of the x10 space and helps it to feel connected to the kitchen. Remember... I'll have a beverage frig out on the screen porch.

Do you think an angled cab would help to connect the two spaces ... curvy like the way bmore did in the other layout? I took what rhome did but also added some more pantry cabs since I was worried that I went from so much space with a 6x10 pantry to not enough space with only one small pantry.

I want to love another layout as much as I do the galley layout. The 3D really help me rhome to "feel" the space. I like it... but it's not yet love.

almost forgot to imbed this:

I wouldn't have the sink next to the angled counter. Need a 'good' space to each side of the sink.

OH...just noticed you moved the sink down... I shoulda caught that! What if I switch sink and DW or trash? What do you think of the added pantry and would an angled cab work then?

I figured out that what bothers me about all these renderings is that I don't care for the kitchen on the left side. I feel like it interfers with the flow to the back. We don't have french doors, though we had orginally planned on them. There is another 9' window there like on the sides. The door out back is that little line I show in my drawings. I know several people said they don't care for the L layout much but what do you think of this? Again, I need an alternative to the galley. The DW line is currently right around where I show it in this iteration so moving the sink line (I assume) would be alot less cumbersome then in the galley (though I still don't think it should be that big a deal). Electric would be easier in this layout since there is already electric on the east wall.

bumping

By the time you put chairs at the table in that plan, you won't feel like you have a path through to the back at all. I thought what you needed was an alternative that kept the kitchen on the left because of bf/dh's hesitancy to move all the plumbing, etc?

I thought I accounted for chairs by pulling the table out 2' from the wall. But I see what you mean; if someone was seated; I"d only have less then 3' left as a passage. Doable, but not perfect. I'd infrequently use the entire table pulled out.

Yea... I was trying to come up with an alternative with the kitchen on the left because of the plumbing issue. But I just wasn't loving it. I feel like it would really help any design to access that 10' of uninterrupted wall. The DW is currently very close to where I showed it in this design and the sink only a few feet down further to the left. I thought it might be easier/cheaper for that kind of move. I guess I won't know till we are ready and price it out.

Everything is still up in the air with the home. BF has tried to get ahold of the guy we offered the house to but haven't heard back yet... kinda weird.

The gods say that to use the chairs (not walk behind them), you need about 32" beyond the table edge for a person to become seated (pull the chair out a bit, sit, tuck up to the table. A seated diner takes about 2 feet beyond the edge of the table.

So, a 30" table uses about 5 feet before allowing for extra clearances for people to become seated - it just fits the table and the chairs somewhat tucked underneath. Ideally, you'd allow 32" on both sides of table table for a total of 94" (almost 8 feet). With your table at about 54" wide, once you add clearance on the sides, you need 118" or a square almost 10 feet on each side. Using a 42" table, its closer to a square 8.5 feet on each side.

Rhome did a great job of minimizing the impact of the needed chair clearances by placing chairs at an angle to the wall.

For the longest time I thought my table was 42" round, but it's 48" round. So I'm estimating based on bmore's stats that I'd need slightly in excess of 9' around for the table and chairs. As much as I love this table; I'd be more then willing at this point to switch it out for something else if I come up with a layout that we'll both agree too. Rhome always does a stella job. A while back she helped me realize that angling the chairs will help with the process. It's kinda hard to me to draw it properly in Powerpoint. Thanks for the info bmore... you too are always so helpful

I feel like rhome is Manolo whilst I am closer to a kit part in kinky boots.

Here is a link that might be useful: The movie (could not resist)