you may regret lack of dishwasher: guests prefer just stacking for a duration-loading up once at the end or leaving them-not doing them at all..or washing poorly in a hurry.. If you come in and note dirty dishes it would actually be easier as you clean the place to just load the machine and not spend the extra time hand washing after people. I'd do the pantry cab and drop the rail things-add 1 smallish wall cab over there..21 or 24 inches wide. Do you have no concern about"guests" doing fires in a stove there?

I agree with putting in a small DW for just that reason--hiding dishes/guest comfort. So lovely to always have it looking as tidy and nice as the host would wish, but with "vacation" effort.

Since it is just a guest house, I was thinking losing a shelf or two by not doing the full-height pantry might be worth the trade-off in spaciousness, but full-height would help make up for storage lost to DW. It's looking like a nice workable kitchen, though.

can you wire electrical into the pantry and put a microwave on a shelf inside...or in the other utlity cab...since there is no oven...guests would want a microwave.

For a kitchen with no oven and not really made for real cooking, it seems to have a lot of counter space and storage.
Personally, I'd put in an apt size stove and small dw. You won't need fancy venting as an OTR micro would do. I'd go with fewer cabs and storage as well. You want kind of what an RV would hold but with the small dw. I might even go with open storage for base cabs as well so guests can find things easily. An unfitted look would really be ideal. Ikea has some stand alone pieces that could fit your space well. That would save on counters and installation of much of the kitchen. I'd use a freestanding pantry and build in the sink cab at most.

Hi everyone, and thank you for all of the responses so far.

Seeing the responses, I know now I should have elaborated a little further on the purpose of this space. It is a guesthouse-type space, but it will be my family's primary residence until the attendant farmhouse is built. We are a family of eight. (Yep . . . a string of clowns out of a little car when we arrive somewhere, that's us. ;o)

This is a long-considered, carefully planned move into minimalist living. It's something every one of us wants to do. We're also in the process of going back to a mostly-raw mostly-vegan diet. (Very little cooking involved, but LOTS of food prep.) So, with those as givens (as I don't want this thread to turn into advice on how much we'll hate living in such an uncommon way, since this is the course we've carefully pondered over and chosen), I'd like to hear further thoughts on the layout of the kitchen.

After your comments above, I'm considering a dishwasher . . . with the tall pantry cab (which I've just learned today I can load with drawers and different doors if I so desire), I believe I'll have enough space to do that. And with Ikea's current kitchen sale (hooray!) I can now order a kitchen totaling $4500 and still have it cost only $100 more than we were planning on spending (about $3500).

So, contrary to a space calibrated to the use of guests, this is going to be a primary residence for a family for a while. A small marine-style smooth top range might be in our future (we're wiring for it and installing an exhaust fan), but it's definitely not going in now.

And with that rather disjointed response (I'm tired, and have done a lot of driving today), let me hear what further feedback you've got.

Here's another update, with dishwasher and hardware:

Funny, I was going to support your dishwasherlessness when I thought it was for guests alone, but understanding your company-of-eight plans, I think I now agree with the DW arguments. Having the ability to toss things into and out of sight under the circumstances, without necessarily washing, might be really helpful. It's like temporary storage.

And while I really like the look of the pantry less than the other style, I do understand why form might have to take a backseat here.

What would happen if open shelves more symmetrically flanked both sides of the window bank? Could that permit another upper for storage without going to the full pantry? Or what about a row of uppers across the entire fridge wall with a parallel set of open shelves beneath it. That might give the storage with less of the weight. Not sure how your sloping wall would affect things, but perhaps you could adjust upper cabinet size to move with the ceiling slope.

At the end of the day, under the temporary circumstances with extreme storage needs, I think you have to side with the storage option even if it looks heavy.

sounds good: dishwasher-in the positive column it sounds. the pantry might be on your list now it sounds...still, I wouldn't use that wall on the right for hanging rails. Too many hands reaching up onto a corner wall for that isolated spatula, whatever. I'd get the utensils into drawers and put one smallish cab, maybe your open shelf or 2 there. Is the sink big enuf, and deep as well-lots of prep it sounds...is that an apron sink in the pic??

Large drawers hod more than two small ones. Instead of two 15"w drawers you could have a 30"w drawer. They never show you this in an ikea catalog. Many ikea staff don't know about it. You find out about it too late. Moral of the story: let some ikea-experienced people review your parts list.

When you buy a whole ikea kitchen for the first time, you discover late in the game that the cabinetry catalog options consist of a batch of loose parts. These parts CAN all be ordered separately in any case. So you had a lot more options than they showed you in the catalog.

This is the part number of the shallow 30" wide drawer:
10107072 RATIONELL N fully-ex drwr 30"
101.070.72 RATIONELL N fully-ex drwr 30"

(the deep one is 001.070.82) at http://www.ikea.com/us/en/catalog/products/00107082/

Also, instead of using the Ikea drawer fronts you can optimize your drawer layout by putting "raw, unfronted" drawers wherever you wish. Then you cut your own drawer fronts the size you will need, to fit the heights you have made the drawers be. Bamboo plywood is now available. Many woodworking shops can make drawer fronts for you, at the same price as Ikea's. The ikea heights cause some wasted space. Look underneath them and you will see the drawer front overhangs down a lot; this is unnecessary.

Here are ideas to make a tiny kitchen more workable for two simultaneously operating inhabitants.
A second sink (undermounted) could be miniscule.
A second garbage pail could be tiny. In a top drawer.
A second source of water. (Filtered water or wall-mounted tap water, or...).

If it helps, the pullout pantry from Ikea really rocks! We have the largest one (30'?) and love it.
I agree about going with fewer but wider cabs. It will help with budget and preserving interior space. I love all the wide drawers we have now. Our narrowest is an 18" 4 drawer stack for the silverware, lunch bag stuff and ziplock stuff.
I love the open rail system and would definitely go with it. It makes finding stuff easier and uses what would have been plain wall space by making it functional.

My dh has recently gone vegan in the past few weeks because he wants off the cholesterol meds. I still cook many of those foods and am finding it a challenge. I would not want to go with cold stuff only. We had a really good risotto with butternut squash and made southwestern spaghetti squash that was a big hit. Many of the foods like sweet potatoes, the squashes, etc, need cooking and I am using my oven as much as ever. You also need an oven to make breads for using with hoummus and other dishes unless you buy store made. There are also many good vegan chili and soup options. I am learning as I go, but it is going to take creativity to not miss meat, fish and dairy. The rest of us can eat those, but I am using them more as a garnish or an extra so that we don't have several different meals each night being made. One ds is a picky eater and often does not like what the rest of us have (even pre-vegan cooking, lol). We have been trying not to make it a power struggle, so he either gets his own dinner (i.e. bagel bites, chicken nuggets, a burger, etc) or I make him something simple like French toast. But I digress...

I still think that you may be able to do some unfitted pieces because those have storage and counter space and do not cost as much for the secondary kitchen and are flexible for later on. I'd build in the fridge, pantry, sink cab and dw and let the rest be the less permanent fixtures. I know one of their pieces is made to fit in a corner....

Andalee -- have a look at this thread for pictures of open shelves below the cabinetry - a possible compromise for you in terms of storage space and corner-heaviness: http://ths.gardenweb.com/forums/load/kitchbath/msg100239059466.html?14

Here is a link that might be useful: Thread showing open shelves

Alright! Lots more good comments. :o) Thank you!

@aliris19: Thanks for the ideas for upper cabs and shelves. I love the Nester's post with the open shelves below cabs a whole lot (that's one of my favorite blogs ever--I've read all of her posts), and was thinking along those lines with the rail systems & other things. I'v drawn up a plan of the side walls (with measurements yet to be taken) to see what fits. There's a screen shot below to see what I came up with.

@herbflavor: The rails, etc., would be for things at point of use (herbs, knives, etc.) Like I said, the rail systems are still a work in progress, I just know I want several (for hand towels, as well as utensil & accessory storage). The sink is a 26" apron sink (Ikea Domsjo, a great deal), deep & wide, and has a colander & rinsing tub & cutting board that fit beautifully in it. It will be plenty big for what we need & do.

@davidro1: I'm also a BIG fan of wide drawer bases for nearly all kitchen storage. I had a bank of 3-drawer bases in my first owned kitchen (two 36" and one 30"), and I miss them so. much. Thanks so much, too, for the Ikea tips. I've got the Akurum breakdown from Ikea Fans, so I can see what the components are for each cabinet I'm interested in. I was thinking I'd add drawers to the 24" pantry cab, so the bottom half or so would be drawers, with doors & shelves (or wire baskets) above that. I will definitely need to spend some time on the phone with an Ikea coworker to make sure I've got everything I need (and that's after I get a few Ikea folks here and possibly at Ikeafans to look over the list, too). The idea of custom fronts is intriguing . . . but I have a feeling that this time around I'm going to go with stock doors & drawer fronts. If there isn't a straightforward way to modify the assembly to eliminate that overhang, I'll live with the 1/2" wasted space. It's SO much better than the 1-2" on the framed cabs in this rental that I'll be happy as a clam at high tide with Ikea's design. We'll have a filter tap for drinking water, and I have lots of tricks for making multiple prep stations along the counter for multiple workers.

@dianalo: I tried different layouts with the unfitted/free-standing kitchen components, and it just didn't use the space efficiently enough. They were also significantly more expensive, and we're on a pretty strict budget. As for cooking needs, we're gluten-free and nearly vegan, and are going to be eating mostly raw foods. I'll have a couple of single-burner plug-in units for warming things and cooking soup on, I have an electric kettle I adore for herbal tea, and I'll probably go ahead and get an electric skillet. When we first moved into the house we built back in 2002 (and have since had to sell), I had a sink & toilet working upstairs in the kids' bathroom, and electricity in my kitchen. That was it. I'm pretty good at "camping" inside without an oven. ;o) My kids are very accustomed to eating what I make, or knowing that there's always fruits & veggies if they prefer not to eat what's on the table. With a crew this large, I just can't cater carefully to picky eaters. Hunger provides a strong motivation for widely-adapted palates. :o) They're all healthy & active kids, and doing great.

Thanks so much for your responses . . . and here's a screen shot of the plan as I now believe it will work best. DH has already framed in the closet next to the woodstove, so no pantry cab will be going there. :o( But . . . I still get a 24" pantry. It's just framed in. I've also added wall cabs on either side of the windows. The ones I have there will fit under the 7' roof with about 20" to spare; they're just not placed precisely in the online planner. Please, continue to let me know what you think. This has been so helpful. Thanks so much for your time!

I can't imaging going without a range or eating such a reduced diet (it's enough that I'm gluten-free, sodium-restricted) so more power to you!

When I was pondering the single vs double oven scenario, someone mentioned to me that electric roaster ovens can do double duty as ovens. I've even seen recipes for making cakes in them. A gluten-free, vegan diet doesn't mean you have to give up cakes and breads, at least not in my world. ;-) Anyhoo, thought I'd throw this idea out for you, as a fall back plan in case you want options but not necessarily a full range. Although have you seen the cute 24" Bertazzoni range? But I digress....

Good luck with your remodel!

The single burner portable coil burners are generally terrible to use for any period of time. Heating a pot of water is forever. I did that for about 9 months, broke down and got a portable induction single burner (well discounted) and life was so much better. Plus, the times you do cook stuff you'll need a lotta gear on the counter, lotta cords and not spectacularly kid safe.

Get any 21-24" range - you can get some fairly inexpensively - way inexpensively - used ones are under $200 - sometimes way under. They are made for small scale living in an apartment and yes, you could fit a turkey in there. Alternately, look for a scratch'n'dent 2 burner induction cooktop - one is linked below.

Marine ranges are tiny, cranky and expensive. I've had to use a few on boats and I hate their guts! Your sanity is worth something.

You can see this in the 3D actually, but be really careful with cabinets and the window trim. As you can see, the doors in the uppers closest to the windows would run into the window trim - IF your trim is as deep as the drawing. Window trim is generally deeper that 3/4" in an old building.

Because its difficult to reach back into deep corners like yours, consider using ikea brackets, but using either leftover counter pieces or wide boards from the lumberyard for the shelves. That way, you can make them a little extra deep - 14" and an easier reach into the corner. Also, you can put some narrower depth ones underneath so small things like cups, glasses and perhaps bowls go at a more kid friendly location.

The ikea rail systems, with apologies to those who are very careful and like the system, imho are difficult to use with the traditional 18" gap between counter and uppers. Next time you go, pick up some actual gear down in the market and take it up to the displays and play. When I did things like try to take a spice bottle out of the top tier of a rack, I had to be very careful. With a 24" gap between, they work very well. After re-reading - the tops are too close to the bottoms of the cabinets and the bottoms of things are too close to the counter.

The exception is you might be able to use squarish ceiling mounted pot racks if the rake on the ceiling permits.

Would you consider making the doorway smaller to the other side - add a little framing and drywall (like 15"?) to the top of the opening to get another wall cabinet?

Really wish you well in this!

Here is a link that might be useful: Example induction cooktop

Oh, that looks way better to me, andalee - congratulations! Maybe the symmetry helps lighten up the heavy pantry. It looks like you even more storage than the high-storage one from before, too.

I seem to recall the ceiling is very high at the door -- maybe you could squeeze in an extra upper even without framing out the door?

Thanks, everyone. :o)

@lisa a: I don't see eating mostly fresh fruits & veggies, sprouted nuts & seeds as a restricted diet. Since we have multiple food allergies/intolerances in our family, I see it as an allergen-free diet. (Americans' staples are mostly known allergens: milk, wheat, peanuts . . . ;o) We've done it before, and getting back into it now feels really good to me. It's like years are falling away from my "real" age, and I'm getting some life and energy back. Love that. I will have a goodly-sized toaster oven, so I can occasionally bake a good gf/allergen-free cake for celebrations. :o)

@bmorepanic: (Love your username! lol) Thanks so much for your feedback on the marine ranges. That's really useful. I was thinking of one or two of these induction plates (or the commercial version), and if that didn't work, I'd get a two-burner ceran top electric cook top much like the induction cooktop you linked to. We're wiring sufficient for any contingency, so it's a possibility.

And thank you for the heads' up on the window trim. We're planning on using 1x material, so it'll be 3/4" thick. I'm thinking I can put a bumper of some kind on the wall up near the top of the window trim where the cab door would hit it. My main concern right now is figuring out how to make sure the right-hand door on the wall cab next to the pantry cab will open cleanly. I think I have 1" to spare, but would hate for that to be too snug to work. Oh, the devil is in the details . . .

I've been rethinking the rail systems, and will still get them, but am not exactly sure where I'll be putting them. I'm just wholly smitten with the fintorp line, and it's fun rustic vibe. The metal pails just make my heart go pitter patter (which is kind of shameful, since I know there are much bigger things to worry about in the world . . . but I like taking pleasure in my surroundings, so it can't be all bad, right?) A pot rack is a GREAT idea. I can totally do that with the ceiling . . . just have to adjust the length of one of the hanging chains. Oh, hooray for getting the pots out in the open where I don't have to nest them! Of course, they don't HAVE those in the kitchen planner (bah), but I can adapt.

@aliris19: I'm thinking about putting a shelf above the bedroom door (on the left, by the fridge), so that could add even more function there. I'm also considering an awesome, huge clock.

K, here are some fun shots of today's mods:

Living room side, with upper cab:

Bedroom side. (And don't worry . . . it looks like those cabs are kissing the default 96" ceiling, but the measurements all work out in my math. I'm going to call Ikea and ask about that one, though. The 88" pantry cab shouldn't be 96" tall, right?)

Living room side without upper cab (which is really calling to me, as I feel like I'm going to do most of my prep on the peninsula and in that corner (where the outlet for the burner and the toaster oven will be), and I hate working with an upper cab in my face. I could handle a pot rack up high, near the opening to the living room, though.

Andalee, that looks terrific. I love all your workspace, with uppers in both corners or without. Did I miss where you say you're going to try it without the upper in the corner and add it in later if needed? :)

BTW, why don't you schmooze DH into ripping out the framing? I lose stuff in the back of my 12"-deep wall cabinets (not kidding!) and have to pull out items to find them. You NEED that pull-out not only to avoid this aggravation but also to avoid wasting a LOT of storage space. Fixed deep shelves require significant space be left unused, both on the shelves so items can be pushed around as you search and also vertically with fewer shelves so there's room for the questing arm (and eyes) to work. This is a BIG issue.

The 88" goes on top of the toe kick of (roughly) 4" to 5". Once you put the legs on the bottom of the cabinet, it will takes a little extra height to stand it up (one of those weirdo things where its actually slightly taller when slanted).

Alternately, if it's too tight, you can build a base for the toe kick outta lumber that's slightly shorter and then slide the pantry into place. Just trim down the ikea toe kick material to fit.

On our over the ref cabinet and I would suggest also the pantry, we put a little bracing across the back to make sure the cabinet back didn't get pushed out Its behind the ikea back and hidden by the refrigerator panel. Nothing special - small strips of 1/2" plywood going across the width with a rabbit cut for where the edge steps down and screwed on.

Just as a throw out idea, put shelf over the windows? Organizers underneath beside the windows then start the cabinets beside the shelf? Or switch to the 15" tall cabinets, shelf over all the way round and organizers underneath?

The consumer burton fan is a little loud. I would have no idea about the commercial one.

This might be endemic to the species, but it doesn't have "speeds" below about 6 - even tho there are settings below 6. What it does is periodically turn on/off to 6. Not a bummer unless you need control. If you use a pan made of thick cast iron, it can be used to moderate that effect.

The stainless steel pad included to use any pan is pretty useless unless you eventually get gas burners. It makes a good simmer plate.

@rosie: Thanks! :o) I'm working on DH. I need to go out there and see how he's got it framed, and how the cabinet could be used. I really want a pantry cab . . . maybe I'll have to pull out the sawzall myself. lol There's really something about a cabinet that just uses space better than a closet.

@bmorepanic: Ahhh. Got it. In the photos above, I've taken the toekick off of the pantry cab altogether. That's why it's stepped down from the fridge cab. I'm going to check the measurements again (and again), and double compare them with the framing out at the site. I do NOT want to order cabs too tall for the space, and end up not having my kitchen work. (Man, would that be a bummer.) And thanks for the suggestion to reinforce the backs. I figured that the cabinet backing would rest directly against the wall, but if not, I'll see to reinforcements.

I'm thinking of putting a shelf over the windows, to keep the more picturesque kitchen items on it (pitchers, vases, etc). I love this kitchen's window-top shelves (and the real-life-dishes!):

{{gwi:1961328}}

Source: granvillehouse.blogspot.com via Annalea on Pinterest


I do really like the idea of the over window shelf continuing all the way round the walls, with cabs underneath. Or have the shelf connect to the tops of the cabs, making their tops deeper shelves--good for serving dishes and cake plates. Hmmmm . . .

I've heard that the burton induction burner can make noise, but with a crew of six kids trooping around, I'm not much concerned. ;o) My favorite pan is a big cast iron skillet, and I mostly just make soups and such (with water heated in the electric kettle, no less). We will be running a gas line to the kitchen, but won't have the tank installed for quite some time (lowering the barriers to getting out there).

Man, this thread has been so helpful. Thanks so much, everyone! Now, to call Ikea and find out the details of how I order this. Oh, and see if I can find some tips about ordering a kitchen from Ikea remotely . . . like, can I order over the phone things not available on the website . . .

With a crew of 6 kids... I lost my sense of smell when a bad-smelling shrub was in bloom last year but gained it back after bloom time--my brain was compensating. I wonder what a hearing test would reveal in your case. OTOH, being a mom requires extra-acute hearing. :)

I LOVE that corner, shelf, curtains, whole thing.

Doh. Just did some Googling (finally). It looks like I'll be sweet talking DH into more than just cutting out that framing for the cabinet. If we want an Ikea kitchen, it's looking like a trip to Portland for us. We're closer to Seattle, but we have friends & family in the Portland area, and can sleep somewhere for free (and possibly be fed, too).

Hmmmm........gotta think on this one . . .

good job, looks very nice for kitchen.

Here is a link that might be useful: kitchen pantry cabinet