Here's what not to do if you want to keep to your budget.
Don't fall in love with backsplash tile thats $21 a sf, don't fall in love with your island or pennisula coutertop that's $25 a sf not including install, don't insist on under counter angled plugs, if it's not ikea or cl cabs don't insist on all drawers with the most expensive hardware or many pull outs, don't add a glaze on top of a stain, don't do special order stainless behind range backsplash...all this stuff adds up! Look for closeouts on lighting and cabinet pulls & knobs. I could have easily saved at least $3,000. However, the reason for our DIY was for me to get some of what I wanted that was a bit higher in price without going too nuts.

Sure, you can do a kitchen on 13K, but NOT with the changes you are talking about, unless you DIY everything. The labor and materials to do the structural changes you are talking about will run you 5K if it's the absolute easiest possible scenario. Throw in an old house and "surprises" and you've already exceeded your budget on structural issues alone.

So, what skills other than tiling can you bring to the table and what compromises are you willing to live with to have new stuff. WOuld you be willing to do the structural changes now and rearrange the existing cabinets until you could afford new ones? Are there any friends and family who are contractors or engineers and could help with labor? Would you be willing to do the labor to "repurpose" Craig's List cabinets?

When the budget is small, you have to either reduce the scope of the project, or increase the DIY portion. Or both.

$13,000 represents the cost of cosmetic changes and new appliances for many GW posters. Post some photos so that GW advice can be targeted more clearly?

You might want to read the commentary thread about cost of demolition. Consider changes to the flow of the room to be major surgery, even if it's just moving a doorway a couple feet. Been there, done that. It will take a long time for this scar to heal. Remember that moving innerds of the house requires treatment on BOTH sides of the amputated area and of adjacent affected areas as well as the surgical cuts and implants on the kitchen side. In our case, this involves yet undone repair in plaster of our dining room and a hall, thresholds in flooring, doorway trim, pocket door hardware and door still unfinished, and the loss of the items and habits that used to be associated with the previous configuration (my mega-china cabinet had to depart, sigh, and I had to relocate significant volumes of stuff). Not only that, but the affected areas are low priority in the ongoing high priority DIY kitchen addition and facade and understory parts of the project, so I may be looking at scars for a very long time.

On the good side, at least you're not contemplating new driveway, basement stairs, siding, major plumbing and electrical runs, etc. But even small changes are time consuming and hard on the marriage and the daily life and budget. If they will really change the usage of the house, especially the way that family members relate to one another, it's likely to be worthwhile. But if it's to scratch an itch that is yours alone, rethink the project. $13,000 is a chunk of change in my world, even if it's not close to what some GW'ers are spending.

The advice about scrounging things is spot-on... IF... you are clever, talented, and.. lucky. For every person who scores a high-end range and so forth for $40 on Craig's List, there are hundreds who read the ads daily and find nuthin'. You can kill hours in antique shops, used materials outlets, want ads, etc. and still come up short. If you want to go forth purposefully, don't count on serendipity.

But also remember, chance favors the prepared mind. Yes, go look at the stuff that's out there and the magazines and the websites and all that. But also do your personal homework and get out the measuring tape, calculator, graph paper, pencils, and a current statement of your family's savings and retirement investments.

That looks great Nancy in Mich! Impressive, to say the least!

It depends on where you are, but if you're in an area that's at all pricey for labor, it's going to be very, very tough if you plan to work with a contractor. That was our starting budget for a partial DIY remodel of a 13'x18' kitchen, and we ended up delaying the project for two years so that we could double it---and in the end we *still* gave up moving the doorway because of the cost (and that wasn't even in a load-bearing wall---just added too much cost for redoing all of the finishes, walls in adjacent rooms, etc. that it triggered).

For what it's worth, our budget breaks down roughly into thirds---one third labor, one third materials/appliances, one third cabinetry. So while we could have cut it down somewhat by doing more ourselves, the labor wasn't the biggest part of the budget. This is with middle-of-the-road finishes.

If you want to do it on that budget, it would be good to reconsider IKEA cabinets (they really are a good deal for the price, and plenty of people put granite or soapstone or other higher end counters on them for a high-end look---check the Finished Kitchen Blog for some gorgeous IKEA kitchens), look at the reuse places as suggested above (there are others in other parts of the country) or plan to do much more of it yourself. Or, if you aren't changing the layout, can you potentially paint or reface your existing cabinets? That would save a bundle. If your electrical and plumbing are already up to code, that will also help somewhat.

Good luck!

nancy_in_mich,

Really enjoyed your pics! Especially the raised dishwasher. I'm doing the same with our built this Spring. I'll link my latest post if you'd like to see my plans. How much did you raise your dishwasher? Thanks :)

Here is a link that might be useful: My kitchen plan w/raised dishwasher

why are you against using Ikea cabinets? They're well made, and they look great. My sister has had them in her house for over 5 years now and they look as good today as they did 5 years ago. She has a teenage son, 2 cats, 2 dogs and her spouse. I had them in my first house and if I was redoing on a small budget, I wouldn't hesitate to use IKEA.

I'd say to forget it- especially if IKEA and laminate are out!

A new DW better than what you have will be $500- $1000

Each plumbing change/move will be a MINIMUM of $500 (each)

Door move could be big $$$ to depending on your home.

Place to start if you really want to punish yourself: Get a plan / design or two. One of what you really want and one of what you really can live with. This will cost you around $500-$1000.

With these you can price out the two most variable and easily cheapened costs: Cabinets, counters and appliances.

Now add this to the $1000-$2000 min. structural change costs and you'll have a decent picture of whether to move forward or not.

You also need to have a grand (two is better) in the emergency/contingency fund so when you take up the floor for tile and find asbestos or mold or it needs more/larger wood to support tilework, you won't have a $$$ crisis on your hands.

The dishwasher is not coming out of this money.

I don't think you're going to be able to do it for $13K unless you make a lot of compromises and are accomplished DIY'ers. I'll tell you what you can do in a comparably-sized kitchen for just under $14K, appliances included. Bargain shopping, realistic plans and killer DIY are the key:

Realistic Plans:
* Footprint stayed essentially the same (did not move plumbing or gas, no slab work needed, slight shift in hood vent pipe done DIY)
* Kept the paver flooring that was original to the MCM home.
* Kept the existing reach-in pantries rather than tear out and replace with more cabinetry.
* Kept freestanding microwave (no pricy micro drawer) and moved it into a pantry for aesthetic reasons.
* Kept existing pendant lights over island.
* No fancy new appliances (wine cooler, beverage fridge, coffee station, etc.)

Big-time DIY items:
* Kitchen plan.
* Demo of existing cabinets and range wall drywall and hauling to the dump.
* Pick up, loading, transporting, unloading of IKEA order.
* Electrical to include two relocated island outlets, charging drawer in island, hard wire for range hood, relocation of 3 range wall outlets, addition of two recessed lights (and switch) over range wall, new outlet in pantry for microwave.
* Construction of wall to create fridge alcove.
* Install and finish drywall for range wall and fridge alcove.
* Paint wall and pantry doors/trim.
* Assemble IKEA cabinets.
* Build 2 x 4 wall on both sides to make counters deeper and reinforce island.
* Build platform for cabinets on island, as old island was sunken into the floor.
* Install IKEA cabinets.
* Install glass mosaic tile backsplash.
* Shift duct for range hood.
* Install range hood.

Where the money was spent:
*Cabinets - Ikea Nexus Yellow-Brown, "Spann" handles. (24', $2,600)
*Countertop - Zodiaq Papyrus($4,380 - 66 sq. ft.)
*Kohler sink (32-1/4" x 17-3/4" x 9" deep) ($100 open box)
*Price-Phister Mystique pull-out spray ($170)
*Backsplash - Lunada Bay, sendai silk ($750 - 40% off)
*Kitchen Aid Refrigerator ($1,386, Sears closing, floor model)
*Kitchen Aid gas convection range ($1,492, Sears closing, floor model)
*Bosch dishwasher ($450, Lowe's repaired clearance)
*Arietta Range Hood (Home Depot $300)
*In-sinkerator disposal with air switch ($150)
*Building Supplies ($1,500)
*Plumber ($350)
_______________
$13,828

Before:

After:

And keep in mind that this already presupposes that you have available such tools as a table saw, skill saw, drill press (we borrowed this -- for drilling holes in drawer fronts for hardware installation), sander, drill, power screwdrivers, ladders, voltmeter, laser level, and lots of hand tools. Demo started Thanksgiving weekend 2009 and the last touch-up paint went on the patries in mid-April 2010. We both work full-time and did most of the work on weekends. But we are ecstatic with the result.

Here is a link that might be useful: My initial

Ok... had not noticed the initial nix of IKEA cabs and therefore should have encouraged you to shop around for cabs and after you get prices, then make a what-the-heck excursion to IKEA to check out their kitchens in person. You will have seen what the more expensive places have to offer and can compare for yourself and not go on reputation or supposition.

I know I was not even remotely considering IKEA cabs but our first cab estimate was $35K and that did not include installation! Next we got several more in the $17-$19k range (also, pre-installation prices). Then, after reading GW and hearing all the raves about IKEA, I went to just prove to myself that they were not worth considering. I saw almost the same cabs that I had been considering (same or better quality at IKEA, I should add) and the installed price came to just over $8k.
IKEA also has many solid surface options from granite to quartzite to Corian, Zodiaq. etc... all at 40% for the near future if you spend $2500 in the kitchen dept.
They take an additional 10% off if you sign up for a credit account and charge no interest for up to a year (since you'd be spending more than the minimum required). That would give you a little wiggle room if you bust the budget by a small amount, since that gives you a little more time to save up.

It is easy to dismiss them but you might be missing out. The people here do not rave about them for no reason. We do not work at IKEA (and I don't even own their stock, lol). My kitchen will cost more than $13k and yet I can spend it on what I want to spend it on rather than spend a ton on cabs and have no money for splurges. Also, we are not DIYing our kitchen (other than the planning part)so our expenses are higher than yours would be.

I do have to disagree with something written above. If you pay close attention to Craigslist, ebay and scratch and dent sales/stores, you can pick up amazing deals as we did on every single appliance. It did not happen in one weekend, but took some effort. However, I saved approx half of what I would have paid and got higher end than even I expected. You buy when the right thing is there (after doing research) and when you have most of your appliances, then start planning the kitchen for real. You will know the sizes you are working with and can plan accordingly.

Of course, you will have a rough plan from the get go so you know what sizes approx to buy for appliances in the first place.

Part of the DIY is the careful shopping. Green Demolitions (4 locations on east coast) can be a lifesaver as well as the Habitat for Humanity Restores (many locations). It all depends on where you live.
There is a restore in CT as well at:
http://reconnstructioncenter.org/

You may also have to do a lessening of the wall you want down and just open a large "window" of sorts in it.

It will take more careful planning to make $13k stretch as far as you want it to, but it can be done.

I think the key word here is "compromise" and I'm not sure you are willing to compromise enough. It probably can be done if most of the work is DIY, but you are going to have to scale back on expectations. My mom just finished her kitchen and spent $18,000 using a GC. Her kitchen is significantly smaller than yours. She knocked down two walls (one being a support wall) and added an island, but no plumbing/gas/electrical changes other than some lights in the ceiling. This price included laminate flooring throughout the kitchem and living room/dining room. She went with a close-out marble subway tile backsplash, kept her stove and refrigerator but purchased a new DW and mricrowave. She purchased her stainless sink and grohe faucet from an outlet store and used a standard granite. Most importantly she used stock cabinets (one color - one style selection) made by Kountry Wood Products. The GC made them look wonderful with wide molding accents. I admit that the kitchen looks stunning and I am envious after having spent four times that amount on mine -I know mine doesn't look four times better than hers! She compromised on everything and that was something I was not willing to do. If you are against IKEA cabinets, that are much more expensive than what my mother used, then I am thinking you are never going to be able to do a kitchen for anything near your budgeted $13000.

You know, reading GW here will give almost anyone "kitchen envy". Posters have done such amazing kitchen! And some of them with very little money (but a LOT of personal effort). However, most kitchens here fall into the "want" category, rather than the "need" category. No one needs granite or marble countertops. No one needs even a GE Profile range. No one needs 30K worth of cabinets when a few K of restaurant open shelving will hold everything they own. These things are all wants. And there is nothing wrong with having wants, if you can afford those wants. Consumer consumption keeps our economy alive.

The problems arise when you start using the MUST word. "I MUST have granite countertops" and "I MUST have cherry cabinets." "I MUST make my kitchen a faux Swiss chalet and wear leiderhosen while baking strudel because that's what's popular and it's what I want." You really don't have to be one of the "in" cool kids to have something functional and attractive.

Laminate is functional and attractive and it's in your budget.

Ikea or American Woodmark are functional and attractive and are within your budget.

Taking down walls can definately make a kitchen more functional, but if it's functional as is, and that would just increase the functionality, then taking down walls isn't a MUST, it's a WANT.

The way to kick start this project with the budget you have is to put that money where it will do the most work and make you the happiest. If cosmetic issues like new cabinets and granite countertops will make you happier than taking down walls, then that's where you spend your money and give up opening up the kitchen. If opening up the kitchen is top priority, then spend your money on that and wait and do the more cosmetic changes at another time on another budget.

You can't have it all.

And worse, it's dangerous to try to have it all on a limited budget. Unless you are very very handy, trying to do structural changes without a contractor can lead to disaster. Plumbing and electrical should only be done by someone intimately familiar with code requirements, not only for your safety, but for future resalability of the home. And, if you find qualified family and friends in the trades to help you with your project, what happens when they open up that wall and find that it's rotten from a plumbing chase leaking for the last 10 years and that the rot extends all the way down to your floor joists. Your project just grew way beyond what your budget anticipated, and you don't have enough $$ to cover any of it.

Time to punt. Reorder your thinking. Redo your expectations. Get "MUST" out of your head. Work on smaller projects to develop your DIY skills before tackling a money pit like a kitchen. Do anything but have a pity party that you can't have what you want. Take some of these suggestions that posters have so kindly offered you. Or at least respond to them.

Thanks to everyone for you input and suggestions. I actually typed out two rather lengthy responses yesterday (no Live Wire I wasn't pouting or throwing myself a pity party but thanks for jumping to the absolute worst conclusion). They somehow vanished into cyberspace. I finally got one to 'stick' last night but my frustration level with the internet was high and we were just about to have dinner so I wasn't able to post everything I wanted to say.

Now, first let me say the exclusions of IKEA and laminate are already compromises, but not in the way you were thinking. My DH is against them. I suggested IKEA or IKEA boxes and different doors. He doesn't want IKEA because he is unsure of the quality (there are no stores within 200 miles of us) and he fears if there were a problem it would be very difficult to correct because it would be online/phone.

He doesn't want laminate because of our current experience with laminate (expanding over the DW and crumbling). I feel this is more an installation problem rather than an actual laminate problem, but he's made up his mind and that is that.

As far as changing the doorway, it is the doorway to the dining room which we use nightly. Moving the doorway would allow us better flow through the house and an improved work triangle. We understand it may not be possible, but we also want to make the house as functional as possible for us and the way we live.

While my kitchen is medium to large, it is completely under utilized. I have very few cabinets and they are all housed on one of the short walls. Previously one half of the kitchen was kitchen proper while the other half was laundry. We have relocated the laundry away from the back door and that space is essentially empty now.

I have been watching Green Demolitions and Craigslist all the way from Nashville to Memphis. I did find my refrigerator on Craigslist and seriously considered a vintage stove. I'm not sure I could talk DH into going so far for cabinets from Green Demolitions but if I saw the right thing, I would certainly try.

As far as my current cabinets, there aren't many of them and sometime over the lifespan of the house they have been painted with oil and then repainted with latex so the paint inside is easily scraped off and peeling. It's not a good situation.

We do have two carpenters coming to look at the wall and determine if it would be possible to open it and if so the cost. We may go ahead and create the new doorway and wait on the rest because you all are right. While everything is a compromise to some extent, we want to do this well and do it right. We are not the type of people who renovate frequently so whatever we choose will stay with us for quite some time.

I'm fine with waiting. While I would love a new kitchen I don't want to walk in every day and think "If I had just waited . . ." I know nothing is ever perfect but I want to make sure the years of sacrifice feel justified in the end.

I have only scanned the last several posts except for the last one which was right at eye level as I typed. So I'm sure I will respond again, however I do want to say that the breakdown of costs and materials is much appreciated. I want to look at that carefully.

Thanks again for all your input, suggestions, and honest opinions. I wanted honest opinions and I am thankful for them.

It sounds like you are the more realistic/open one in your family. You will want to make sure you are both on board and agreeing before you start because a large project will always have issues that come up and you want to head into it as a team.
I think that if you can open the wall first and delay the rest if needed, then that is a good game plan. You will knock out 1 unknown and give yourself time on the rest. It will also allow you to accumulate some materials when you catch a sale or bargain. Things show up at their own pace, but you need to have the time and effort put in and you will see how "lucky" you can get, lol. I was bragging to a friend at work about all my deals and steals in kitchen materials and he said I had great luck. It struck me how much more it was about shopping wisely and with patience/care than "luck".
Perhaps, if you start knocking items off your list of needed supplies, you will find you are ahead of budget and will be able to do it sooner or better than you thought.

I made a master list of materials needed and prices I expected (after researching numbers) and in many cases I was under what I had allowed for items when I compared receipts to projections. In some places, I went over, but I think I am still ahead of my original estimates due to my pinching pennies. I am getting all that I want, but it has taken effort and creativity to get it all in my price range. I am also using better materials than I thought I could afford.

If I had ran out and had to purchase everything in a few weeks, our project would have cost much more.

Between now and when you start the main job, you can use holidays like bdays or Xmas to pick up some items you want but know you could do cheaper on. For example, if there is hardware that costs a little more than the budget, make that your Xmas gift and enjoy your splurge guilt free.

Just keep it mind it is easy to get budget creep if you allow each item to be just "a little" more than you budgeted. They add up quickly. Luckily, savings can add up the same way ;)

I think your plan is a good one. FWIW, we did the same thing---had a carpenter/contractor come out to look at what we needed to do and give us a good idea of what could be done with our budget. I'm really, really glad we waited, though. While we could have done something with the kitchen on our original $12K, it would have been a very different kitchen, and I think the one we're going to wind up with is more than worth the extra waiting, and on balance a much better value for our money. (On the flip side, it would have been finished, though, which would have been a plus! ;) I ended up spending most of those two years planning it, too, which (though it can send you to analysis paralysis...) was a good thing budget-wise. We have a pretty tight plan and knowing exactly which things we wanted and what the right price for them was---and having the leisure of buying them when they went on sale, etc.---helped a lot. Like dianalo, I have a master list of model numbers and prices, with everything rounded up to the nearest $500, and I use that as the master budget. We didn't start work until everything added up. It's working well for us so far---if there are no unexpected surprises (and I'm sure there will be...) we're on track to come in under budget right now, which is exciting! :)

A kitchen can be really cheap or really expensive.

The previous owners of our house (It was originally built in 1910) updated the entire kitchen a few months before we bought it. We have estimated the materials cost to only be about $3000. For that, we got granite tile floors (18x14 kitchen), granite tile countertops, and stock cabinets. The PO was previously a contractor so had DIY experience. He beautifully stained all of the cabinetry, so it looks more custom than a stock cabinet normally would. The granite tile is very nice looking. All the cabinets are new.

They kept the sink where it was so they didn't have to replumb. We don't have a water line to the fridge. Just an average faucet with an entry-level stainless steel sink.

It was all stuff that was pretty easy to DIY. If I added the cost of our fridge, dishwasher, and range (which we already had), the cost in materials and appliances would only be about $4500. They aren't fancy appliances, nor are they super cheap ones.

There is no backsplash, which we are fine with.

It's a very nice, modern looking kitchen. And it was done quite cheaply. There's a way to do anything on a limited budget, really. No one would mistake it for a kitchen from a magazine, but it's more than respectable, and certainly much better than what was there, I would assume.

In fact, it was what "sold" me on the house when we bought it last year. All the other houses in our price range had tiny kitchens, out of date kitchens, or just plain dysfunctional ones.

Although it seems to be considered a huge "no-no" to use granite tile for countertops, it's an excellent way to be able to use granite on the countertops if you otherwise couldn't afford it. Plus, it's much easier to do DIY granite tiles than slabs of granite.

All of the things that were done, we could have also done. It just would have taken considerable time and effort.

So it all depends on what you want and what you can do.

By the way, concerning the issue of laminate vs. granite, I think you will find that the price difference really isn't that great anymore. Granite has come down in price significantly over the last few years. If you stick with a standard granite the price differential might only be $500 or so, versus the cost of granite. Take it one step at a time. I personally think it is so much fun to see a job evolve slowly. You can enjoy each stage and take your time formulating where you want to go next.

Krycek....thank you for posting that. That's about what my budget is...we want to pay cash and just update the look. My brother will be doing all the work (thank God he's amazingly handy). I also liked to hear about Wants, Needs, and Must haves. You are right, of course. It helps to hear it sometimes!

Kristen

Yesterday I could see my kitchen renovation beginning. I had found a kitchen display for sale that suited our taste and our budget. Alas, we were too slow. Someone else bought it this morning. So it's back to the salt mines for me. Now I'm pouting a little bit, but I'll get over it and hopefully something just as good is waiting around the corner for us.

Thanks for all the responses. It's nice to know it can be done.

Hang in there, Sumner! I found what I thought were the perfect used cabinets, only to lose them because I dithered around deciding. As fate had it, I found the really perfect used cabinets at Habitat for Humanity shortly thereafter.

We bought all new appliances, but without them our DIY kitchen reno would have been around $16,000. If you get a great deal on used cabinetry (mine were $3,500 and our spaces sound similar) and use some innovation on other items, it could be done. Basically, you can have anything you want if you wait long enough. :-) That applies whether you do the first small steps now and big things later, or just keep going bit by bit, as we did it, paying cash, spaced out over almost 2 years.

Do you have a good rough plan for how you want the space to be organized? Once you've got that down, you can keep your eyes open for bargains and opportunities. (Hey! That $30 piece of marble at the garage sale would fit right into my baking corner!) Remdelfla did a lot of this, as did I, and it may seem disjointed in the planning/collecting phase, but it's so rewarding when it all comes together in the end. Think outside the box! (...says the woman with homemade roofing copper countertops.)

You certainly sound like you've already put thought and emotional energy into planning this -- don't be discouraged, keep your eyes peeled, and I'm confident you will get your dream vision in the end. :-)

I did it for less than that by bartering some of the labor and buying on line and/or on sale. My two "won't back downs" were the farm sink and new cabinets. It was my carpenter who said configure it the way I wish it could be and he'd make it happen. I wanted to take out a peninsula and keep my original vinyl floor. I had a piece left over from the peninsula hole and he patched it in. You wouldn't know it unless I point it out. My white appliances were new enough to keep and I like white. I did most of the demo and all the clean up at the end of every day. I did the painting and papering. I did all the little things that eat up time and I made most of the trips after supplies. I was the GC. My old friend was the carpenter. Yup. Just the two of us. Total gut. And we're both over 60. He worked on it days, I worked on it nights and weekends.

Are you close enough to a big box store that they could lay it out for you? It's free here. I had at least 8 practice runs before I found a layout that did everything I wanted. I made so many trips to Menard's the design ladies knew me by name and looked out for the timing of my cabinet purchase. I bought my cabinets on sale.

I'm more than 200 miles from an IKEA store and couldn't imagine buying there. I tried to make sense of the online catalog but just couldn't do it. I used Formica. My carpenter made my counters for a lot less than buying them already formed. I don't have a back splash. It's painted right now. Easy to change. I can wallpaper it, too, for very little money. These things fit me and my kitchen so to me it wasn't a "settle for" solution, it was an ideal solution. I have a kitchen that has nice cabinets, plenty of counter space and a pleasant atmosphere. I did some things no one else on here did. I used antique light fixtures and wainscot wallpaper on the ceiling. I used the space over the basement steps for additional cabinet space. I don't have any granite. No Crown Pointe. No Restoration Hardware. No tile. No stainless steel appliances. My exhaust fan is a Broan I got on line for $400. No plugmold. My under cab lights are fluorescent. No island. No bar stools. I used the money I had left over for a bathroom overhaul. got a walk in shower!

I'm in the center of the U.S. and I do realize being "IN STYLE" isn't as important here as it is in other places. I think prices here are much lower then most other parts of the country. We rarely do a remodel project for resale, we do it because the house we live in doesn't fit our needs any more or it needs major repairs. I don't know anyone who has a granite counter. No doubt there are some but not in my peer group. We try not to go into debt. We aren't in a contest with the Joneses. Maybe living in such a small town/rural area there is no point in trying to be something we aren't. Everyone knows everyone and their lineage for 4 generations. It's rare for people to move here from very far away. Most end up here because one of the couple was raised here.

Here is a link that might be useful: my kitchen

Pinch-me, are you sure we aren't neighbors??? lol
I'm definitely not trying to 'compete' with any of the kitchens I've seen here or even those of people I know. My kitchen is just inadequate as it is. I don't have enough cabinets or counter and I the ones I have are in poor shape.

Circuspeanuts,

We are doing things as we can. I've actually had a carpenter in this week creating that arched doorway between the kitchen and dining room and closing the original opening. It's going to look great! I'll post pictures when he finishes.

I know that we didn't get those cabinets because we weren't ready. I need to have a diagram of my kitchen at the ready so I can 'see' if things fit immediately. And honestly, it was all too fast for DH. It made him nervous. I don't think he has any real concept of how much cabinets cost and how good a deal this showroom was (It was $2500. I estimated it to be about $12000 retail. Then we would have had to buy one additional base cabinet and two uppers plus a utility cabinet to complete our kitchen.) Even if we had decided to buy it, the other buyer would have beat us there. It was 3 hours away and they were at the store when it opened yesterday.

I know I have to be patient. That's how I've gotten pretty much everything I have now. Last year we created our new bathroom. After living with a walk through for 9 years. It was worth the wait.

I do love the idea of collecting things for a kitchen. I think that sounds like so much fun.

Thanks for your words of encouragement and reminders that nothing good comes easy. And I have viewed both of your kitchens multiple times, you both have charming kitchens that I would be proud to have.

sumnerfan, my bottom cabinets were so bad I didn't use most of them. and I NEVER let anyone see inside. It was a real pain having most of my stuff still in boxes in the garage 6 years after I moved here. The night I started moving back in I had the dishwasher going straight through. My tap water got so hot I could scald things with it. It didn't have time to sit in the pipes and cool off!
I came here when every single kitchen was all the things I don't have. I guess seeing them did help me make mine. I knew what I didn't want. Later after some older kitchens were brought back up, I saw what I could have done. But I'm happy with what I have. And buying things here and there lessened the sting of writing big checks! It was still the same money from the same account but didn't seem like I was gushing money.

For anyone thinking about a budget remodel like ours, My thoughts after the fact: Visit the antique stores. Not the high class ones but the rough ones. Used furniture type places or small town places. You can pick up antique kitchen cabinets or furniture pieces that will function as kitchen cabinets for a couple hundred dollars. About a month ago I saw a chopping block table just like my aunt used to have. $75! If I would have seen that before I planned my kitchen it would have been waiting for me in my garage. Time is the killer there. You have to know what's out there and the price so that going from one shop to another you know if things will work together. Camera and notebook required. Take more pictures than you think you need. Make notes about every measurement and color, sketch it out while you're standing in front of it. Get your photo and description printed out and stapled together while it's fresh in your mind. You'll forget, believe me, your brain will be so full it will overflow. I used two reams of printer paper researching. I have a black and white laser printer which prints cheaper than ink dot but even using the ink printer it would be worth it for the visuals. And I kept all the rejected papers and brochures in a men's shoe box when I made my choices. The keeper pages went into a zipper notebook. It went everywhere with me. My floor diagram was there and all the window measurements were there, too. I had floor and formica chips, paint chips, you name it, it was all there. No matter where I was I had all the information I needed. You never know when you will walk into a building and get the greatest idea. Don't overlook salvage places. There's a great one in Des Moines. We have Habitat for Humanity Restores here which can be useful. I haven't found craigslist to have anything at all. I think it's the area of the country so for you it might work.

I think you have received some great advice.

Pretty redone space with bad function = complete waste of money (unless it's a window-dressing for a home sale)

Fix the layout and function problems, and then do what you can. Maybe you do the layout now, and put in used cabinets and basic finishes. You will be content using a functional and safe space, even if it isn't your ideal look.

Then go for the looks as budget and time allows.

Green Demolitions can ship a high quality kitchen to you for a price you can afford. Maybe take another look at them.

Green Demolitions can sell you a high-quality kitchen and can help load it onto the truck that you arranged for. I got my kitchen from them last May. They loaded it into the truck I rented and assisted the guy I flew there to drive my truck. They do not arrange shipping, however.

Look at what they are offering now - lots of high-quality kitchens with little wear.

Here is a link that might be useful: Green Demolitions

I'm so confused. The contractor went and had a layout of our kitchen made at Lowe's. He gave me the layout but not the price list, so you know I couldn't resist. The next day I went and 'worked' on the layout he created to make it what I would want. The price was about what I expected. 11,500 for Kraftmaid and 10,500 for Diamond. Apparently DH hadn't been listening, because when I came home he ask and I told. He was shocked and a little angry. He said he thought they would be between 7 and 8 thousand. I explained that I had done hours and hours of research. That I knew the cabinets we wanted were out of our price range and that is why I had been looking for alternate ways to create the kitchen we wanted like Green Demolitions, Habitat Restore, Craigslist, showroom displays for sale, alternate distributors of the same cabinets, and RTA brands like Ikea.

Then we talked about our options. Apparently he is REALLY READY to do the kitchen. First we talked about just doing part of the kitchen. There is an obvious stopping point. If we did that and we ordered by Friday (for the current promotions) we could get 2/3 of our kitchen done in Kraftmaid for 6500. It would actually be only five cabinets short of our full kitchen. I know that sounds fast, but I've been thinking about this for years and I know exactly what I want. However I am concerned about how this would impact the countertops.

OR I could call some of the companies mentioned here like Designer's Choice that also sell Kraftmaid to see if we could get the price down enough to do the entire kitchen. (I sincerely doubt we could, but it is always worth a try).

OR He threw out Ikea. I was shocked because he was completely anti-Ikea three weeks ago. I did our layout last night. And for the entire kitchen our cabinets would be 4,500 at Ikea excluding tax and shipping. I'm also a little confused. I did the kitchen builder then had it calculate the cost. Does it pull all the 'other' things we need. There were some things on there I didn't recognize but I also didn't see any finished ends which I know we would need. Our biggest concern with Ikea is will they hold up for the long run? This is our forever house and I'm not a person who likes to change things often. I find what I like and I stick with it. Has anyone had an Ikea kitchen for 10 or 15 years? If so, how is it holding up?

I feel like I have whiplash! My head is reeling and I don't know what to think or do. I almost feel that I should put this is a different post. The idea that I am completely responsible for compiling our materials list and ordering cabinets is daunting. What if I mess it up! I just don't know. I need your insights. Thanks for everything. You've been great and I really appreciate your honest thoughts, even when they aren't exactly what I had hoped to hear.

He doesn't want laminate because of our current experience with laminate (expanding over the DW and crumbling). I feel this is more an installation problem rather than an actual laminate problem, but he's made up his mind and that is that.

That is definitely an installation problem. The installer should have put in a steam shield. It's a plastic piece that keeps the vapor from the DW out of the backing to the laminate.

I had an Ikea kitchen for nearly 10 years and it still looked good when we sold it. (This was after raising a toddler there and renting it out for two years while we were traveling, too.) The only thing that was starting to look a little shabby was the toekick piece. And that's SUPER easy to replace. This was one of the mid-high range Ikea kitchens, not the super cheapie ones.

Ikea uses very good hinges and glides (blum) and their furniture board cases are VERY low VOC. I don't know if VOCs/offgassing matter to you at all, but they do to us. I helped a friend with her kitchen cabinet choice recently and we researched the heck out of this. She was actually all set to buy Kraftmaid at Lowes but the customer service rep at KM told us the VOC levels are actually quite high. If she was correct, they're still using 1993 standards, which allow for a very high formaldehyde level. Other brands are significantly less, and Ikea is held to the German EC standards which are the strictest in Europe.

The only thing I don't love about the Ikea cabinets now is the lazy susan... it's your basic center-stile susan, not a Super Susan.However, you could always get the empty cabinet and buy a wooden RevAShelf Super Susan if you really need one :)

As far as the Ikea kitchen planner, you do need to specify end panels, etc. On the right side, with a cabinet selected, click the tab for "options" and scroll down. You can click "finished left side" or "finished back" and specify the color/finish there. That's also, I think, where you specify whether you want toekick or chrome legs or whatever. What you don't want to do when figuring your pricing is to include any of the Ikea appliances or counters in your plan (unless you actually plan to buy them there) since that will add those into your cost in the planner's bottom line.

If you're considering Ikea, you really need to go to a store and look at them in person. The finishes just don't convey in photos. Some that you love in the pictures might be hideous in real life, and those you hadn't considered look fabulous! You'll also get to open all the drawers and see how it all works.

My friend had a similar budget to yours, and she had to make some compromises. Since she decided she HAD to have all-plywood cabinets and carrara counters, she compromised and only ordered lower cabs. She's going to install open shelving for now, and later, if she needs them, get upper cabs. She also decided to make part of her counter out of wood and part out of marble. She is going to DIY the finish on the wood as well as the cabinet install. (FWIW, installing Ikea cabs is WAY easier than installing normal cabs. The have a wall-hanging system and adjustable legs!)

Good luck

Hi Sumner, I think what you are going through is absolutely 'normal' and is all part of coming up with a plan that works for you when doing a remodel. I understand why you would want to get the most for your $$$$. I am in the same spot as Circuspeanut was and going cash on my kitchen re-do. One thing to look out for is that contractors and laborers rates drop dramatically right around the holidays. I had a lot of people vying for my business Christmas week last year when I re-did my bathroom. You may also still find deals on Craigslist right after Thanksgiving as a lot of people will have recently completed new Kitchens and will be trying to sell their old Appliances/Cabinets etc. Craigslist is hit or miss but you can get good deals if you are prepared to be relentless in searching and wait it out. I picked up a beautiful 1920;s double french door over the summer for $100, just by continually search for French Doors. Stage 1 of my remodel will begin right after Christmas with the removal of a wall between my Kitchen and DR, the install of a new kitchen window a new Kitchen Ceiling and re-wire and lighting. I wish you luck with your new Kitchen and will check back for updates on your decisions and progress! Happpy Thanksgiving:)

I also priced Kraftmaid at HomeDepot and DesignerCabinetsOnline.com. My experience was that the online supplier was 18% cheaper than HomeDepot. A full 6% of that difference is sales tax which I don't have to pay because they are out of state. That difference would be over $2000 off your $11,500 HD quote. $11,500 * .82 = 9430. That leaves $3570 for countertops, appliances and flooring, etc. Assuming you DIY everything else, well you can do the math. I think you are wise to consider reducing your cabinet expenditure if you're trying to stay within $13,000.

Thanks for coming back to this thread ladies.

I've been 'talking' back and forth with Designer Cabinets Online. With the current specials, I could get Norcraft cabinets for just under $6000 that are comparable to Kraftmaid.

The floors will be DIY, plus we have already bought the tile. So we will probably spend $500 on mastic, underlayment, and grout.

I have been watching sinks and faucets on ebay, overstock, and galaxy tool. I think I can get both for about $400.

Cabinet hardware . . . no clue.

We are going to paint the knotty pine tongue and groove paneling on our kitchen walls and ceiling. About $100 for primer and paint.

The contractor that did the update to our dining room estimated that he could do the plumbing, electric, and hang the cabinets for $800 plus expenses, of course. We are lucky to live in an area where labor costs are low.

Then there are appliances to think about. There are nothing technically wrong with my appliances except that hubby hates the dishwasher and he wants stainless appliances. I would love a double oven but I just don't think it's in the cards for us. Assuming we get a new stove with double oven and the Kitchen Aid dishwasher Hubby wants, that's around $2000.

Lighting . . . no clue there either. I could replace the two current light fixtures pretty reasonably. Then there is the issue of under-cabinet lighting. I know I want some, but I have no idea what it will cost. Maybe $400 or $500 tops.

That puts us around $9400 without countertops, a vent, cabinet hardware, or window treatments.

Rethink your undercab lights. I ended up with some fluorescent plug to plug undercabs for $17 each on sale. I have 4. They are more than adequate. I will probably replace them at some point but for my budget redo ($12,000 budget) they are just fine. Mine are the kind you swipe your hand over the photo eye and they turn on or off. I don't regret them.

Pinch me, that sounds good. I didn't even know they made lights with photo eyes. I will have to check those out. Thanks!

Cabinet hardware, try Lee Valley.

Here is a link that might be useful: Lee Valley

Another great place for cabinet pulls is the Great Indoors. They are having a good holiday sale.

Here is a link that might be useful: The Great Indoors

I had several horrible experiences in a row with Great Indoors. Be careful.
Let me see if I still have the package for my lights. I know I saw them a week or so ago.

Here's the link that looks like the same one I have. I bought mine at Menard's a year ago. 21 inches. I have 4.

Here is a link that might be useful: zilotek undercabs

So you can plug them together instead of having to plug each one in individually??? Cool. They certainly are bright.

I got beautiful cabinet pulls at Lowes for under $3.50 each. They have a great selection. I had looked everywhere and wanted to save some $$ on them since we were redoing everything in the condo and when I saw them there, I grabbed them.

cpartist- I will probably get them from Lowes or ebay but right now I have no idea how many I would need, I guess I need to go back and look at the plans and count so I can estimate the cost. Thanks!

My cabinet pulls came from Lowe's too. The cabs are old and I had to match the existing holes, and Lowe's had a large selection of pulls with the right spacing. IKEA had not a single cab pull that would fit. I didn't look at the more expensive ones [grin]. I'm very happy with the ones I got; I don't remember exactly how much they cost but it was definitely under $5 each -- nice since I needed 31 of them. I just checked the Great Indoors site and it looks as though they carry a lot of the same brands as Lowe's. Didn't compare prices though. By the way, the first set I brought home looked completely wrong in the space (they were FINE in the store) so there might be some value in waiting until the cabs are in and then buying from somewhere you can return/exchange (as opposed to Ebay), unless you are really sure about them and have a better eye than I do.

Thanks for the tip northcarolina. Probably a good idea. Apparently I don't have a very good eye as I am now looking for a third choice of window treatments for my dining room. I hate shopping for curtains. It makes me want to throw a sheet over the window and call it done.

I bought the ORB pulls that come in a package from Menard's. I looked at everything they had in the store and for the look I wanted they fit the bill. and need I mention they didn't cost much ;-) There were 6 or 8 in a package on sale for that magic number of $17. They also sold them singley for a higher price so I bought one single one to make the amount I needed.

Pinch me, We don't have Menards here. What would you compare it to? That is a good price.

Against my better judgement, we went to the one and only granite yard in our area. The sales person said the average kitchen was between $4OOO and $5000 to granite. So obviously that is out. DH is still dead set against laminate. So I started looking online and found a site that carries discontinued and overruns of solid surface countertops. I like the witch hazel, egyptian copper, black quartz, and beach sand. I'm a little all over the place. It seems pretty affordable at $350-$600 a sheet. I 'think' I would only need two, but then again my math is not that good. I have no idea how much it would cost to have it installed and cut.

Anybody use this site or do something similar?

Thanks again for all the wonderful advice. Hopefully we will get the go ahead to start our kitchen next week. Right now I'm still focusing on this neverending dining room project. I found a light fixture I really like and DH said it was hideous. *Sigh* why do men have to make things so difficult.

Here is a link that might be useful: discount solid surface countertops

I bought all of my handle cabinet pulls from knobs4less.com. They had the best prices I could find for the type of pulls I was looking for.

I bought my cup pulls on ebay, and they were less than $2 per pull. I am very happy with my purchases.

Just another source for you. :^)

I'd say Lowe's is pretty comparable to Menard's. Maybe Home Depot?? I don't have those near enough to me to shop there. I did consider some on eBay but I didn't really love them, I couldn't touch them, and if they weren't right I was stuck with them. They would sit next to the box of 32 I already had for a different project that in the end didn't live up to those pulls.

P.S. I think you might be the person who posted a different thread about the solid surface sheets...and got shot down. I don't know what's available there but the carpenter I have can do anything. Not sure it's possible for you but maybe there's someone who can do that for you. If that's the only thing you have to hire done, it might be worth it. My carpenter is a tile/carpet installer by real trade but has worked in so many houses he's seen it all; especially now that he's done my house! I think my kitchen ceiling might have given him fodder for horror stories for the rest of his life.

Thanks shelayne and pinchme,

I bought my bathroom pulls from Lowes and am very happy with them. The only negative was that literally two weeks after I bought them, my Lowes stopped carrying the style I bought. Thank goodness I had all I needed.

If I were to purchase from ebay I would buy a test pull first but it would have to be something really special or a superb price.

Pinchme- I did post about solid surface. I will talk to some people around here about installation including the handyman we used for the dining room that we plan to use for the kitchen. I think I would have to see someone elses's counters he had done before I let him do mine. There were a couple missteps in the DR but overall his work is good and his price is right ;).

Thanks again. You are wonderful to indulge me this way.

Are you going to have an island? Maybe that would be the first place to put the solid surface sheets...And if your person can make the instalation look good, he can make the rest of your counter look good. I saw that web site a few months ago, posted here and got a lot of negative messages. I already have Formica so I wasn't going to do the new counter now. I wanted to keep the web site though in case I want to install it some day. I'm happy with what I have. If you do end up getting it installed be sure to post it here. I want to see.