I'd take the high ground (not that you haven't already) and operate from a position of honesty. Lay it out there... "I don't take pleasure that this worked out this way. I regret the angst it caused me and the work it will cause you but I'm sure if it were your kitchen you can understand my position. I'm going to check and recheck all specs so this does not cause either of us any more time and expense. So I'll thank you in advance for being cooperative and available till this process is complete". Then continue to be THERE, involved, and express your content for each step that works out the way it should have in the beginning. Sometimes an un-nerving sense of calm and unwaiving expectation for a positive outcome can change a negative dynamic.

Wow. First, I am so sorry you have had to go through all this.

But I think you're not done fighting. (sorry) I think they need to order the cabinets through your KD. Tough if they want "better" pricing -- I bet you wanted "better" people working on your project! I'm assuming this is not something you do on a regular basis (ordering cabinetry), so it would be completely unfair to hold yourself accountable for the correct ordering. That's (one of the reasons) why you worked with a KD in the first place .... I can appreciate your wanting to look everything over to make sure all the correct pieces have been ordered, but it's ultimately either the KD's or the GC's responsibility (of course you should look as well), and if you let the GC order the cabinetry then they shoulder 100% of the blame should the delivery be amiss.

I'd also insist on having a different worker in your house. Let's see, so if you go to a surgeon to have a procedure on your foot and he gives you a hysterectomy instead, would you really give him a second shot to do the right procedure? Doubt it!

However much you are spending it is TOO MUCH to not have a Grade-A job. Period. That's what you paid for and that's what you deserve.

I understand conflict is hard (I really, really do understand), but you're going to be living with this kitchen, not any of these knuckleheads. It simply must be done right.

And why you should you worry about being nice to them? Screw them! They should be worrying about making it right with you? I am FURIOUS they are giving you a hard time when you have a contract and all you have to do is mention their name here / Angie's List and you could do some serious damage to their reputation. What on earth are they thinking at this time, in this economy? They should be working extra-hard to make it right for you so that they might have a scintilla of hope of getting a referral from you.

The squeaky wheel gets the grease. I think you need to be a squeaky b*tch. Shame on the GC for putting you in this position!

I've been on both sides of this. Our bathroom reno was a disaster that ended up with me meeting the contractor at a Starbucks (because I honestly did not want him in my house with my family around), giving him a check for $5K in payment for the remaining $15K that was specified in the contract and told him "give me your lien releases or meet me in court." He took the $5K. Our kitchen reno was the mirror image with a contractor who was good as gold.

The difference between my bathroom reno and your kitchen was that I knew he'd never set foot in my house again (we already had changed the locks on the doors). In your case, it's a much more difficult situation.

I'm in remodelfla' camp. Playing prison warden looking over their shoulders, being the "squeaky b*tch" may be emotionally more rewarding but I can't see how that is going to make this easier. In all honesty, I could see this story being posted on a contractor's forum under the title "nightmare owner"--not that you did anything wrong, but there were already dynamics in play which made this more likely to occur.

In particular I'd question the notion of using a contractor and a KD who wouldn't work together. The whole point of a KD is to coordinate and oversee the project. I have never heard of using a KD but not getting cabs from him/her. I think if a contractor will not work with your KD on cabs, maybe the choice would have been to find a different contractor? Now you're sort of marooned in no-man's land with both parties unhappy with you.

So...I'd assume the KD is a write-off who will not weigh in on this situation (rightfully). Therefore, you're really stuck with working with your contractor. I'm a bit more worried about the rmkitchen approach. If nothing else, realize that the carpenter is likely a low level sub, who could care less if the contractor gets dinged on Angie's List. Yes, the economy is tight, and anyone with half a brain would be bending over backwards, but lots of folks have no ability to see into the future beyond next weekend (see "subprime mortgage" for proof). Be calm, be civil, but be firm, and most of all, I think you have little option but to physically oversee the work as it's done. Be prepared for a long battle, as I can't imagine it's going to be easy to get a punch list completed by these guys. Change your locks when you're done. We feel your pain!

Tracey,
Your contractor does not hate you.
He is probably some ignorant ass guy who gives all women clients a hard tme. It is not personal.
He screwed up on several occassions because he was lazy or didn't care about the job.
You could have fired him and continued with a different group of men who are competent and respectful of your space.
The issue is what does the contract state.

Those guys drove you nuts. How can you continue to work wth a
dysfunctional group.

This is so complicated I can't begin to tell you.
If you need to email me feel free to do so.

There has to be some kind of solution to end the craziness.

modernlifeinteriors@yahoo.com

I wish you the best of luck,
Susan

I'm also in the remodelfla camp - be polite but firm with them. I think you'll get much better results if you take that approach - I'm sure they're anxious to be done with the job as well and not looking for any further conflicts.

Relax. This is a business transaction. As soon as you start taking it personally, you lose.

Do you still owe him money? Why don't you just order the cabinets yourself, replace them yourself, and deduct the cost (plus a reasonable amount for labor) from the final payment? If you've already paid him 100% that he was owed for the project, you are in a tough spot, and all you can really do is be nice to him and hope that he cares enough about his professional reputation to finish the project appropriately. If he does not, make sure you give him a bad review on Angie's list, BBB, etc.

Is he licensed with department of consumer affairs?
If he isn't I might have an interesting suggestion for you.

OK...deep breath. So sorry you're going through this. First ask yourself if you're willing to move forward with this contractor or go thru the grief of finding a new one. I suspect you're willing to stick with this one, but only you can decide. If you decide you want a change, you have to have enough money held back or a willingness to battle it out in court, and be willing to delay your project until a new contractor can be found at the right price. It's nice to dream of just getting a new contractor, but it's not always that easy.

I think it is within your rights to request a different carpenter. It is likely that the GC had not paid the carpenter in full yet, so he probably has some funds to hire another one. I'd ask--be polite and firm. Just tell him you're not comfortable with the work he's done.

As far as the KD, I'd ask your KD if she's willing to continue on the job, then push to have them use her. I would not, under any circumstance, agree to be the final "reviewer" of the cabinet order. That's shouldering far too much responsibility for the outcome of the order and it's what you're paying a KD and GC to do. Of course, you can look over their shoulder, but I would not be the final gate-keeper.

I have also had some major and minor conflicts with my GC through the course of construction. The best advice I have is to remain calm and professional, but be firm in what you want. Remember you have a contract with the GC, so if there's a screw up, it's the GC's responsibility--even if it was caused by one of his employees or a hired sub. I've always tried to be nice to the workers, even baking cookies, buying lunch or donuts & coffee every now and then. You'd be amazed how far a little kindness can go. In the end, it's the GC's job to hire competant workers and to insure the quality of their work.

As far as your relationship with the GC goes, if you feel a need to mend fences, then start your next conversation off with a "Sorry I lost my cool the other day. I was frustrated and upset, but I should have found a more tactful way to explain myself." Clear the air. Then go forward.

Good luck and let us know how it goes.

Charlikin, I am sorry you are going through this!

If I were in your situation, I would get everything in writing. Make sure to have the contractor revise the agreement to reflect the new changes. Also, make sure you pay in installments when certain milestones are reached.

Have you resolved the issue of the missing studs behind the cabinets?

Good luck!

So sorry to see this is getting worse before it gets better. Reading the posts it looks like some of the Pros in the forum will come through for you with good advise, just know the Non Pros are rooting for you too!

Hi everyone.

So right now I'm aggravated because I received an invoice from the contractor for the balance on the contract -- marked 1-30 days *overdue*. Since the last check I gave them (which was unfortunately on the very day I realized something was wrong with the cabinets), the only work that's been performed is installing the towel bars and glass shower door in the bathroom. I don't know what the hell they're thinking sending me any sort of invoice, much less a past due one, except that they're trying to harass me.

The amount due, btw, is enough to be a large sum, but not enough to cover what it would cost to buy the cabinets and have someone else install them (plus finish the plumbing & electrical, do the backsplash, and complete some other odd tasks). In addition, I'm sure they would claim that I still owe them money, I would claim they owe me money, and I don't know how it would get resolved.

Assuming I let them into my apartment Monday morning (at the moment I'm so aggravated, I'm considering getting a locksmith to change the locks tomorrow, but I recognize I may be overreacting), there is the issue of where the cabinets are purchased. Rmkitchen, I think you're right - they need to come from my KD. I don't think I can force them to pay more for the cabs than they can get them for, so I'm going to tell them they should give me a written quote, and then I'm going to order them myself and make up the difference. I might get screwed on this (if they come up with a phony quote), but at least I'll know the right stuff is getting ordered. (The KD is the person who sold me the cabinets, btw, not someone I hired...)

I don't know what to do anymore.

Charlikin, I am so sorry you are going through all this. I feel so bad for you and just want to let you know we are all here supporting you.

I never had to deal with a renovation project but I have the worst luck with a contractor who primed and painted one wall of each of my rooms and left all the sample paint blotches on the other walls. He had told me to sample the colors on the walls in 2' X 1" spaces and then let him know what to paint the cathedral ceiling room and the other rooms. He never came back and owed me money from work I did for him and would not answer my calls. Finally 1 year later, unable to get in contact with him and unable to stand explaining to my clients and others why my walls still had paint samples on them, I had to hire someone who was referred by a client so I did not check him out myself. This new painter never finished my home office (I paid him for 2 coats of paint and I bought all the paint and he did one coat) and got white trim paint on the wall which he said would be covered by the second coat. He put the second coat on the bathroom wall before the first dried and streaks are on my wall. He also never painted behind the file cabinets so when they are moved to do my hardwood floors in my two room home office, I am going to have to either try to paint the walls myself (low ceilings in my home office)or hire someone. I need someone to fix the bathroom still since the ceiling is too high for me to reach and I would not know what to do to fix the problem with the semi-gloss streaked paint.

I also had problems with furniture for my bedroom coming very damaged and fighting with the retail store for two weeks last year.

Finally the seller would not move from my home over 11 years ago and I had to fight with him and pay legal fees while my files were in boxes and I could not work.

But I feel for you since your situation sounds much worse and even more stressful. Just know that this too shall pass and take the advice of some of these great posts of people who have been there with major renovation jobs. Again, I am so sorry that things are getting worse and I hope everything is uphill for now on.

charlikin... Sorry... I didn't realize how severe or complicated your situation had become. After reading your last post; forget what I said about taking the high road. I have a very long fuse but once someone crosses the line; I'd dig my feet in real deep if I were you and not stop until you get exactly what you want on terms that are fair and equitable to you.

Okay, my apologies! This just shows what frame of mind I'm in right now!!!

I looked more closely at the invoice - it's dated last Monday, and postmarked Wednesday (the day before I yelled at the foreman). It's also postmarked from another state from where the contractor's offices are. I now believe it was sent mistakenly by some billing office. I'm going to call the salesman Monday morning to straighten this out.

Now that I no longer think this was harassment, I'm much calmer.

Sorry for jumping the gun, guys, and thank you for your support! It really helps having everyone on the forum at a time like this.

Oh charlikin, sorry to hear the stress & anxiety :(.

I understand the nightmarish aspects of all of this, really. What I try to do in situations like this is try to the best of my ability to find the "high road", because while I can often influence what others are doing/saying/feeling around me, I can't control them - the only one whose thoughts/feelings/actions I'm really in control of is myself (although that's questionable, sometimes *grin*).

I would take what happened with the invoice as a sign & lesson in this - you received the invoice & got even more upset......& then realized that the timing of the invoice had nothing to do with your contractor reacting to you - you were reacting to what you thought was happening. Your reaction was totally understandable, imho, but isn't it interesting how your attitude changed when you gathered all the facts :)

It's so hard to take the time to get calm when everything seems to be working against you, but I would go back to all the posts that advised you to breath, take a moment to get calm, & be as factual as you can when working with the other folks involved.

Best of luck - you WILL get what you deserve in this, & you have a lot of support here :)

BTW, I just went through a similar situation (not even CLOSE to the extent of what you're going through - just similar in the sense that something was done horribly wrong the first time & had to be re-done from scratch) Some people got upset, & I just figured that my role in the whole situation was to stay calm, point out the facts, & let it be known that I expected the sort of workmanship that was promised me. Then I shut my mouth, but let my presence be known (while I offered coffee & fresh fruit to the worker involved....as I peeked over his shoulder.....) & I ended up with the results I wanted :) FWIW.

If you're going to work with the carpenter and foreman on a professional level, that do exactly that. Leave personal feelings out of it. I can't tell you how many times I've had to work with people I really couldn't stand. Just this past spring, I had to work with a former apprentice of mine who once on our own, I took on as a partner, which didn't work out for many reasons. I have a real problem being around the guy, but I can work with him on any project, so long as he has nothing to do with what I'm doing or the administration thereof. You need to do the same thing. Check your feelings at the door, and keep your eye on the prize. The easier you make it to work together, the sooner that foreman and carpenter will be out of your life for good.

Charlikin, I remember from a previous conflict with my mom's landlord that we were advised to open a separate bank account (might have been a special type of account) and deposit all the payments (in that case the rent for the apartment) into the account. Then state that fact in our letters/complaints as a proof that we set the funds aside until the conflict is resolved. That was supposed to prevent the landlord from accusing us in not paying. I know you said the invoice is a non-issue but check this option just in case

Oh Tracey, I hope this is resolved soon. I feel awful for you, having to go through this.

Just keep in mind that you will get through it despite the hassles and *bs*, and it really will get done. Your KD sounds like she's on your side (from what I'd read on your other thread), so definitely keep her in the loop--and too bad if the others don't like her.

Bill, Moonkat - you're absolutely right. I have to keep this on a professional level and be very calm and even-tempered now. Not an easy thing - I am feeling *extremely* anxious about it all, but I recognize that I need to ratchet it down, and I will accomplish more at this point by being calm and business-like than by screaming.

I spent the weekend at my apt cleaning and reorganizing, trying to make it habitable for myself and my cats. We're moving back in Tuesday night. It breaks my heart walking into the kitchen right now and seeing what looks like an almost finished job and knowing they've first got to rip half of it down...

That happens tomorrow morning. I hope they have no objection to the idea of their pricing out the cabinets and then letting me buy them from my dealer (KD) and pay the difference - that's important to me.

I'm going to wait to talk to them about using a different carpenter. I don't want to hit them with too many demands at one time, and it does seem reasonable to me to have this carpenter be the one who takes down the cabinets since he knows exactly how he put them up. We have time (at least 3-4 weeks) to discuss who reinstalls them.

Btw, how much do carpenters make? When we do talk about it, I may propose paying for another carpenter myself if they balk... (I presume they'd be balking because they would make the current carpenter do the reinstallation for free while they'd have to pay someone else, but maybe they'd have other reasons...)

Anyway, wish me luck tomorrow.

It depends on level of experience, as well as whether he's on payroll or subcontracting. Could be anywhere from 10.00 an hour to 60.00 an hour.

I know some good carpenters. You can pick the one you like and see the work before you commit.

Update: The carpenter came this morning and took down the cabinets. To his and my surprise, the glued ones came down very easily - no damage to the cabinets, and very little to the wall. (I almost didn't insist on replacing the cabinets because I was terrified the wall would collapse!)

He and I had a cordial discussion about reordering the cabinets. He agreed to price them out and send me the quote so I could buy them where I wanted. He seemed grateful I wasn't going to insist he buy them someplace more expensive. (The result of that pricing exercise is now in another thread addressed to Kompy & LiveWireOak. :-))

Later the foreman came by, and I apologized to him for yelling at him last week. He was very gracious about it, and I think it helped clear the air a bit, at least in my head (and hopefully in his).

I still have concerns about using the same carpenter to rehang the cabinets, but I don't have to deal with those *this* week.

Also confirmed that the invoice was a computer mistake. Happens all the time.

So far, so good - knock on wood!

Good for you!! Good luck!!

If they use Quickbooks....and print out a statement, it does not allow for a multiple payment plan in stages (like for kitchen dealers, remodelers, contractors....etc). I have this same problem. I usually have to white-out the past due part. Very annoying. Only thing I could do is not enter an invoice until someone is completely paid off. Or figure out a date (someday in the future) for the invoice date or ship date. All very confusing.

Charlikin, I am proud of you dealing with difficult people and getting things to work for you and work with you. Please keep us updated.

No real updates yet... The replacement cabinets are coming Thanksgiving week (not sure what day). I've had a couple of cordial conversations with the contractor about how they're going back up. And the tile guy has approved my choice of backsplash tile (he didn't want to use a rectified tile on my plaster wall, but I talked him into it :-)). So if the kitchen ever does get finished, I'll have a beautiful backsplash. :-)

It's been nice having some down-time when nothing is going on in my apartment... even if I am living in chaos with only a refrigerator and a bunch of paper plates for a working kitchen. At least I'm calm right now. (I'm really hoping nothing else goes wrong so I can stay that way!!!)

Kompy, thanks for the heads-up about QuickBooks! I have no idea what software they're using, but they told me to ignore the invoice, and I happily am. :-)

Charlikin,

Somehow I missed all of this until yesterday. I am so sorry for the awful situation! You sound like you're getting things under control and making the best of it. Good luck seeing this through the end :)

Anita

Thanks, Anita! If my kitchen ends up half as gorgeous as yours, I'll be happy. (Of course, mine isn't even half the size of yours... LOL!)

Good luck with those pendants!

If I were you I might ask the KD if she has an installer who can put the new cabs in, can't hurt to ask.

Maybe they can help you out for all your aggravation

Hi sunny - I actually did speak to the KD about that. Her installer was going to be my backup plan if I ended up firing my contractor - came *this* close, too! But ultimately, it would have been much more expensive, and I have faith that my contractor's going to work *very hard* to make sure things go well this time. (I'm sure he doesn't want to have to buy a third set of cabinets!)