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mangotoo

Retail Bull!

mangotoo
15 years ago

Awhile back I complained about certain retail stores carrying over priced kitchen items e.g. cookware. And just because it featured the likes of silly ass' Rachel Ray, Emril, and Stewart.I couldn't understand who the hell would spend their money just because of them!These stores are finally feeling the pinch and going out of business! I say Good! Bed bath and beyond, and linen and things.And to those who gave me good advice, I say thank you!

Comments (46)

  • remodelfla
    15 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    I have to respectfully disagree... not on the futility of purchasing an item because of a celebrity name attached but on the glory of retail stores going out of business. That's people losing their jobs and a reflection of the sad state of our economy, No one forces anyone to buy an item because of an endorsement; however, I wouldn't offer up a public condemnation of those who choose to.

  • cheri127
    15 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Thanks, Elyse. I was thinking the same thing. It's never a good thing when people lose their jobs.

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  • kateskouros
    15 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    the economy is in the commode and yes, some retail stores are going out of business. so tell me again why you're happy with this?

  • stw954
    15 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    I'm not a fan of bubble headed celebrities with more marketing than talent or skill. And I personally don't understand why anyone would target re-badged cookware - for a higher price - because a product-of-P.R. (most FoodTV "personalities") has inked a nebulous deal with some manufacturer. (And the people that do are being naive, in my opinion: do they really believe that their fave tv talking head personally investigated the metallurgy and heat properties and performance and chose THIS combination? Really?)

    That said, Linens and THings simply sold what would sell. It was their job to present a product mix that PEOPLE WANTED TO BUY. And they charged what the market would bear, based on supply and demand - NOT based on value or cost + reasonable mark-up.

    All the people that bought this garbage - and bought INTO the concept - are the ones to blame, if you are looking to do so. They collectively created the market for this stuff.

    I think this economy has sobered up a lot of people...including those that bought expensive items because of the "celebrity halo" attached. Sober is good, buying functional item based on actual function is good. Thousands of people out of their jobs is not good. They were just doing their job, including the buyers that chose these celebrity items and stocked the store with less-than-sensible merchandise...that sooooo many people bought.

    Have contempt for the people (so. many. people) that created the market for this junk, not the middleman.

  • mangotoo
    Original Author
    15 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Well for one, if retail suppliers would focus on the practicallity of an item and get out of bed with the celebs. maybe they wouldn't have to mark these items up hundreds of times. For example, do you really think Tiger Woods enjoys the lifestyle he has just by winning golf matches? Or is it the outrageous endorsements he's payed by companies, who by the way pass that expense onto you! and some. Same with the retail markets. They think that such endorsements will mean bigger profits for them but incidentially it translates into greater debt to you and unfortunately a loss of jobs. How much do you want to pay for a cast iron skillet? Something other than a precious metal wouldn't you think? manufactured in a sweat shop and priced at about sixty bucks. If that doesn't bother you than PT Barnum was right in his belief that "there's a sucker born every minute"

  • remodelfla
    15 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    I repeat... we have all been blessed with free will. Retailers will eventually market the items that consumers wish to buy. If people begin to seek out more basic items I guarantee that is what retailers will begin to carry. The problems with our economy are far deeper and much more far reaching (globally) then someone coveting a Tiger Woods endorsed driver. The loss of jobs, banks failing, retail stores folding has much more complex history of global corruption and greed. The consumer is the least of it.

  • nuccia
    15 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Life is a learning experience and my kids, now in their twenties have gotten past the endorsements, and for the most part are focusing on quality and price.

    mangotoo, I wouldn't worry about GWers purchasing habits--we're a pretty savvy bunch, which is why we're here sharing our experiences. However, the constant advertising bombardment of our children with junk food and "got to get it NOW" toys and electronics is a different animal. Kids have a way of wearing down the most stoic adults. The Wall street Journal and New York Times have recently had articles on how the rotten economy is effecting a change in teens' purchasing behavior, not only their parents'.

    That said, everyone above was right: you CANNOT blame the retailer.

  • flyinghigh
    15 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    This thread made me laugh. Blaming the retailer for selling higher priced celebrity endorsed goods and then cheering on the concept of them going out of business? Thankfully stw954 got it right - hopefully the original poster gets it - there are so many more important things to get worked up over... :-)

    Retailers sell what sells - period. Personally, I feel blessed to live in a country with so many choices!


  • ccoombs1
    15 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    If the high-end overpriced celebrity stuff was ALL a store carried, I'd be upset too. But most stores carry the overpriced stuff as well as stuff that everyone can afford. If you want an ugly orange pot with Rachel Ray's name on it, you can get one. but if you don't there are plenty of other choices. Got to love and appreciate the freedom of choice!

  • lowspark
    15 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Celebrity endorsements or not, anyone who says they are never influenced by advertising is either a liar or in denial. Advertising works or it wouldn't exist. Any time you buy a product, you pay for that advertising.

    So... are you railing against a specific kind of advertising, namely, celebrity endorsements? How is that different from other ways ads are designed in order to get us to buy? Celeb names are just one facet of a multi-faceted industry.

    And, looking at it from a different perspective, we may not like advertising but it's part of how this free market works. And it pays for a lot of things we might not otherwise have (in the form of sponsorship of events, charities, venues, etc.)

    No. I don't work in advertising or marketing in any form. Far from it actually. But I do recognize the value of it in our economy.

    As for businesses folding, in the present atmosphere, we're going to be seeing a lot of that. And the more that go under, the more people will lose their jobs, the less they'll be able to spend, and the more that will cause other businesses to close.

    Cheering that spiral on is unconsciounable.

  • stw954
    15 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Mango, mango, mango, retailers are in business to MAKE MONEY. That's it. That one reason.

    It is not any business' responsibility to keep their customers from buying stupidly. Businesses have no morality.

    AND, I do NOT want to live in a world where business (or government, for that matter) decide what I "need" or don't, what is "sensible," or not, what "should" be sold and what "shouldn't." And no offense, I don't want you making that decision either.

    I'm no fan of my money bailing out all the people that greedily bit off more house than they could chew. And I'm sick that my money is going to bail out the corrupt Wall Street fat cats' cushy jobs. But I blame the individuals and the choices they made. I don't blame the people they bought the houses FROM. I blame the greedy Wall Street fat cats for buying the complex securities that they couldn't properly understand or securitize, NOT the guy who sold it to them.

    Your anger at golf stores that sell Tiger Woods putters is like being mad at the original owner of the house you bought but couldn't really afford. The original owner didn't have a responsibility to make sure you aren't getting in over your head, they just have to sell the house.

  • mangotoo
    Original Author
    15 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Granted! Originally, when I was in the market for a cast iron skillet I went to the aformention retailers. I was sticker schocked! People in the forum however, gave me good advice. And I didn't spend the ridiculous amount of $$$. But! doesn't anybody give a darn that retail giants are narrowing the consumer's choice. Tell you now whenever you need to buy something and there's a face and name on the package you're paying a premium!And by the way, 90% of the cooks on foodtv aren't even genuine chefs.

  • malhgold
    15 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    I can't believe that with all that is going on in our economy right now there is anyone cheering the demise of any retailer. Do you realize how many jobs are lost when a retailer goes out of business? It's not only the store employees, it's the home office employees, distribution center employees, vendors that now need to lay off workers because the demand is low. Then there's the little guy, like the lunch place workers, dry cleaners, etc., in the areas where these places were located.

    No one is forcing you to by celebrity endorsed products. There are plenty of options in these stores at every price point.

    I should know....I work for Linens N Things in their corporate office and have done so for 14 years. I am now out of a job, along with about 10,000 other employees. Does that make you happy?

  • stw954
    15 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Here, here! I'm sick of the mass marketing and slick "personality" focus of FoodTV. I miss the days of Two Fat Ladies and David Rosengarten and Two Hot Tamales. I miss actual cooking. I miss a thousand things about the old model and like almost nothing about the new one. (Jamie at Home is good, but I think they just canceled it.)

    But in the end, FoodTV figured out that they could make a boatload more money by sinking to the lowest common denominator and now peddle all the dreck they do - and all the cross-marketing. (And I would challenge you to find that 10% that ARE real, still. They got rid of Batali and he has been pretty open about exactly that reason for his leaving: they have "no use" for anyone really cooking real food. Who's left?)

    FoodTV is stupid, but they're laughing all the way to the bank because there are WAAAAYYYYY more people that like the new format than people like me (and you).

    The general public is pretty ignorant, shallow, and far more interesting in how something looks (including the celebrity name stamped on the bottom) than how something actually performs. I don't often find much of anything I'm interested in in most stores, because my focus is really really really not in line with other people's.

    But the fact that Linens and Things exploited that shallow consumerism....well, that's they're right. (They also never thought the party would end and had a fat bloated corporate structure that caved under its own enormous weight mere months into a downturn. Now, THAT made me laugh. Seriously, they couldn't withstand even two months of "slow"?!? I didn't necessarily "cheer" the news of their demise, though, because they were the only true competitor to Bed Bath and Beyond. And all those people out of work from the actual stores, just because management was stupid: not good.)

    But FoodTV has no obligation to lift us higher, and there is no morality to their race to the bottom. I'm no longer their target market.
    Linens and Things demise is not because they sold expensive, questionable quality stuff (though they totally did). I wish that were true, because that would mean that maybe retailers' stock would be shifting to something more appealing to ME and I would have more choices. I don't think that is ever going to happen.

    But I blame the massive, unrelenting numbers of shallow and uninformed consumers, long before the retailers that exploit them.

  • igloochic
    15 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    I can't agree that retail giants are narrowing my choices. Frankly now a days we have more choices than ever given the availablity of global shopping on the internet. My latest pots and pans came out of France. Locally I couldn't buy them...heck the retail giants don't even carry them...they like to cater to a simpler market, and that's ok...they all have their niech.

    I'm not surpised that many of the big box stores are going out of business. It's an unfortunate product of our current economy, and it's a natural cyclical part of our world. SOmetimes things are up, sometimes they're down.

    When you complain about the celebrity marketing, it sounds like it's a new thing to this decade. Apparently you've never seen Shirley Temple dishware, Quintuplet Dolls...calendars...clothing, etc. Celebrity marketing has been around since celebrities. I have a jar of "The Queens" tooth powder from the mid 1800's...it's always been around.

    And I'd NEVER go to find a good quality cast iron pan at a major retailer. The quality of that cast iron pales significantly to a nice antique piece which probably costs less.

  • stw954
    15 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    igloochic, I'm such a closet fan. Well said.

    (Another thread for another day, but what pans did you choose?)

  • moonkat99
    15 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Sorry malhgold :( You've been talking about the eminent demise of your job; I didn't realize it was LNT - I do hope you move on to something even better for you.

    My shopping philosophy is to shop where I want to shop, & buy what I want to buy there. (assuming I can afford it, of course! ;-D) It's not that difficult - we have choice. It's CERTAINLY not worth getting worked up over the fact that a store carries products you don't like. Just don't buy those products. Or don't shop at the store at all. Lots of choices out there - let us hope that those choices continue. And btw, the more stores that go out of business, the fewer choices we will have. Food for thought there, eh?

  • mara_2008
    15 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Go to outlet malls if you want a good deal on name-brand (I'm not talking celebrity names) cookware. I bought copper-bottom RevereWare at a local outlet mall for 70% off retail price, and the stuff is still like new after 20 years of constant use! Ditto CorningWare. My parents grew up during the Depression, knew the value of a dollar (shoot, they knew the value of a nickel), and I learned from them how to (and how not to) shop.

  • stw954
    15 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    "the more stores that go out of business, the fewer choices we will have. Food for thought there, eh?"

    there it is.

  • mangotoo
    Original Author
    15 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Thanks STW954. You phrased it better than I did. And Mahlgold it does not make me happy to see people lose their job. My feelin' is you're gainfully employed now as we speak! Here's another example of cockie retailers and see if this rings a bell. GM's attitude was " we could put a bow tie on a tin can and it'll be a big seller." That attitude cost tens of thousands of jobless claims. I'm a small business owner and I put people before profit. But I'm not a businessman, I just like to sleep good at night!

  • stw954
    15 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Don't forget about when Ford made the FINANCIAL calculation about the Pinto's deadly gas tank. They figured out how much it would cost to issue a recall and fix all the rolling time bombs vs. the payout to all the future dead people's families...and didn't issue the recall, because it was cheaper.

    Just lovely.

  • sara_the_brit_z6_ct
    15 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Stores like Linens N Things are suffering because of the downturn in the property market - people aren't moving house, so they aren't buying new stuff. So, don't blame the retailers for selling what people wanted to buy. You could blame the people who kept encouraging people to borrow more and more money to keep buying stuff -

    - or you could just blame the people who buy stuff they don't really need. But that's the point of marketing - to persuade people they want stuff they don't need. And stuff has been cheap because we buy it from China, without questioning how much anyone gets paid, or whether they have access to healthcare or decent housing.

    It's called capitalism. Plenty of blame to go around.

    (Now, I tried to buy a single saucepan today, but everywhere was selling them only in sets. It took 5 stores before I could find an open stock one. And, I think it was made in the US.)

  • stw954
    15 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    "You could blame the people who kept encouraging people to borrow more and more money to keep buying stuff -"

    Really? Because I though it was one of those things you learned as a teenager that peer pressure doesn't absolve you of responsibility for your own actions.

    Yes, marketing does try to get people to buy stuff they normally wouldn't. But isn't that just grown-up version of peer pressure? I think it is a disservice to every thinking adult if you blame the marketers, not the people who bought the thing being marketed.

    "I had to drink all that beer, dad. Everyone else was doing it and I didn't want to look like a dweeb...." Ummm, no. Not even for fourteen year olds.

    Since when did advertising suck away your free will?

  • moonkat99
    15 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    My beloved & much used kitchen compost crock broke this morning :( Or, more precisely, *I* broke it.

    So I'm off to BB&B to see if I like the one they carry. If not, I'll go to another store & pay a bit more for one I know I like. If they don't have it in stock, I'll order something from online.

    I'm sure glad I have those choices :).

  • daki
    15 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    It's sad to lose a shopping option. These days I do most of my shopping online, but there is some stuff that I prefer to buy in person. If an "endorsed" product has the combination of quality, features, and price that I'm looking for, then that is what I'll buy. Alton Brown endorses Shun knives. I bought them because of good reviews and because they also happen to look really cool :), not because some dude on TV says I needed to buy them. I choose to ignore marketing, although this forum did a pretty darn good job of convincing me that I NEEDED a Silgranit sink :)

  • stw954
    15 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    For what it is worth, Alton Brown endorses what he believes in...or so it overwhelmingly seems.

    Emeril's cookware has always seemed just like re-badged All Clad, BUT for some reason performs worse than its All Clad twin in tests.

    Rachael Ray's cookware does not do well in evaluations.

    Mario Batali's line is getting very good reviews when put through actual tests.

    Martha Stewart USED to vet anything she sold (under the old shopmartha site). Now, who knows? but she used to only endorse stuff that she personally thought was good. (Well, that was back in the day.)

    Jacques Pepin doesn't endorse much of anything at all, but did put his weight behind a french cookware line. (Bourgeat, which if you own any, you know why he did this.)

    So, daki's point is a good one: some endorsed products happen to be good. Sweeping condemnation is never wise.

    But anyone who makes these kind-of-major purchases based only on the halo effect of celebrity endorsements, is unclear on the sheer quantity of money involved when that celebrity "decides" to license their name out.

    We used to live in Denver and I always wondered, did people actually choose to buy a used car from a certain company because John Elway was a partial owner? Really? Turns out, yeah.

    (All that said, remember when Rachael Ray was at her over-exposed height and it seemed like half the supermarket had her face on the packaging? Channeling mango and I didn't even know it, we refused to buy any product with her name on it. Just didn't want to feed the beast. I did learn how to make homemade crackers, since Nabisco was the biggest offender. Easier than you think, by the way.)

  • lowspark
    15 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    or you could just blame the people who buy stuff they don't really need.

    It seems to me that our entire economy, heck, the entire global economy, is based on people buying stuff they don't need. If people stopped doing that, the economy would suffer.

    In fact! That's exactly what is happening! People are buying less and less what they don't need, and lo and behold the economy IS suffering.

    The very idea of being unhappy that other people are buying things you don't want is just so senseless. Good thing the manufacturers DON'T just make cheap utilitarian products. That's NOT what capitalism is about and certainly NOT the kind of mentality that this country is based on.

  • kateskouros
    15 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    "Well for one, if retail suppliers would focus on the practicallity of an item..."

    man, i can't read past this first sentence! first of all, it's P R A C T I C A L I T Y. ...one "L". second: where do you live? retailers don't sell things because they're practical, they sell whatever people will BUY. and what on earth is your rant about anyway? oh my Lord, you just don't get it. deal with it and move on. i'm going to have my doc adjust my meds now. maybe you should do the same?
    i do love this thread though. so entertaining.

  • sara_the_brit_z6_ct
    15 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    I give up. Evidently I completely failed in my attempt at irony, since two people have now taken it entirely the wrong way.

    Or has there been a sense of humour failure around here?

  • moonkat99
    15 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    psst...sara - I got your irony :) I think this topic just pushed some buttons, & humour, while being one of the best remedies, often gets set aside momentarily in the midst of a button being pushed.

  • stw954
    15 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    sara the brit: I get shots twice a week to avoid understanding irony. Apparently. (They make a topical cream for it, too, now.)

    oops.

  • tetrazzini
    15 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Well, sara, I liked what you said, tho i didn't realize you were being ironic. It's bothered me that more people don't look at the whole picture, like who's making the cheap goods we've become accustomed to, and under what conditions. But people have looked at me incredulously when I've said this, as if it's our right to buy whatever we want, and companies' rights to sell whatever they want. Questions of rights vary from place to place. In some countries it's considered the right of every citizen to affordable education and healthcare. In others, freedom of dress and speech are nonexistent.

  • alexrander
    15 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Bourgeat is probably the best cookware made. And I don't own any. You can't find that stuff in stores, too expensive for Williams Sonoma or Sur La Table. Same with the better Mauviel. I think small independent stores that are better informed do a greater service for their customers whether it's reasonably priced goods, or luxury items. The big boxes could do a better job, but it's easier to 'create' demand that educate. Also, rents are a huge problem for retailers and it affects the price of goods dramatically.

  • igloochic
    15 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Stw I'm becoming fan as I read...I sense a fellow smart arse :oP

    Alex, I love Sur La Table. I once won a $3000 gift certificate to there...ahhh heaven :) THANK GOD they don't only carry practicle!!!!

    Now OP...take me seriously...go buy warner cast iron, and make sure it's an antique piece. They're the best cast iron on the universe....well that is unless Bourgeat makes cast iron :oP

    Mauviel :o) I adore their professional cooking line of copper. Heaven on earth to look at, and picking it up regularly (to wash...I don't actually cook food) is great for your arm stregnth! (That would be what I recently purchased stw).

    Can we argue about something interesting now? China....what's up with China? (Not the country doofuses...I'm from Alaska, I only know about Russia cuz I can see it). Why is china from Europe so much nicer than from the US? Can't we buy some freaking clay and make our own? Or is china clay from China? DH surprised me with a set for our anniversary (not normally allowed...housewares... but this was special). I am now the proud owner of medusa head china :oP And I love it!

    Cocoa? Why is it only good in Switzerland? Couldn't Uncle Hershey call and get a recipe over the last 100 years? What's up with that? Weren't there spy's available during the war who could put some time into something this important?

    Copper cookware...French is the place to get it...but heck, we had Paul Revere (who would be horrified with the stuff with his name on it now mind you) also he'd be horrified with the way I just spelled his name....anyhoo, couldn't one of his ancestors teach one of our folks to beat up some tin and copper and make a bowl with a handle?

    What were we talking about?

    Oh ya! Shirley Temple! NEXT....

  • katmandu_2008
    15 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Love it igloo. Are you keeping an eye on those Ruskies for all of us lower 48ers down here? But thank goodness America cannot recreate everything that's out there. I like having a reason to visit my Swiss friends (ok, it's been a decade but it's on our list, when the dollar comes back.......) and don't want to see uncle Hershey do it, cuz it just won't be as good. : )

    Otherwise, very interesting thread. As I work toward finishing my remodel that I didn't really and truly NEED, I agree we Americans have become too consumer-crazy and would be much more comfortable right now had we not begun this kitchen process, but we did, so must finish. Don't think I'll be getting (or asking for) new All Clad for Christmas though. : )

  • sailormann
    15 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    "Well for one, if retail suppliers would focus on the practicality of an item and get out of bed with the celebs. maybe they wouldn't have to mark these items up hundreds of times."

    In the average department store, the goods on sale cost between 30 and 40 percent of the retail price. The retailer has nothing to do with any licensing agreement between a celebrity and the manufacturer of a product. That is a deal that is negotiated before the retailer is offered the opportunity to buy the goods. In the case of goods that are marketed through retail stores, a celebrity endorsement is usually worth about 5 percent of the wholesale price of goods that are sold at full retail price (which doesn't happen that often these days). Discounts, sales, returns, shoplifting all serve to wipe out any royalties or licensing fees. A retailer is ecstatic if they get a 60 percent sell through on goods - which means that they expect to mark down about 40 percent of their stock.

    "For example, do you really think Tiger Woods enjoys the lifestyle he has just by winning golf matches? Or is it the outrageous endorsements he's payed by companies, who by the way pass that expense onto you! and some."

    I can choose to pay or not, there are millions of other golf products out there that I could buy ( if the mood to stand in the middle of a field in funny pants wrenching my back trying to hit a small piece of plastic far away ever struck me) without buying branded Tiger Woods merchandise.
    In his case, he gets paid flat fees because nobody in any sport, or in any endeavour for that matter, has been as successful in their efforts as he has. People pay to watch that. Some people pay enormous amounts because they admire it, or envy it, or like to be around it. Nobody is forcing you to do the same.

    "Same with the retail markets. They think that such endorsements will mean bigger profits for them but incidentially it translates into greater debt to you and unfortunately a loss of jobs."

    Not sure what you mean by the additional debt - if you are referring to credit cards and you are carrying a balance, then stop spending more than you can afford to pay off every month. It's not the retailer's fault that you can't control yourself. Better yet - if you can't discipline yourself, cut the cards up and live on cash. NOBODY should be paying interest on credit cards.

    "How much do you want to pay for a cast iron skillet?"

    It depends on if I am buying a serious piece of kitchen equipment that I'll have for many years - in which case I won't spend a cent more than $300.00 - or an incidental to go camping with - in which case I go to Goodwill, get something for $2.00 and take it back there when I am done.

    "Something other than a precious metal wouldn't you think? manufactured in a sweat shop and priced at about sixty bucks."

    The sweat shop idea bothers me, but the $60.00 doesn't. I always ask myself how much someone would have to pay me to make something. There is no way that I am going to make a frying pan for a measly sixty bucks and I don't expect anyone else to either. I believe that people deserve fair payment for their efforts. If enough people felt that way, then we wouldn't HAVE sweatshops.

    "If that doesn't bother you than PT Barnum was right in his belief that "there's a sucker born every minute""

    Naw... I think that the Walmarts of the world do a great disservice. It sounds like you are expecting to find good quality out there at prices that would not allow the producers of the goods to live properly. You get what you pay for. And if you want lots of nice things, you have to be able to pay for them - hence you either have to work for your money or inherit it.

    When I spend money I am paying for the item I buy, the service I get, the design, testing, packaging, shipping, marketing and warranty and the comfort that comes from knowing I am paying enough that others in the world can live comfortably too. I want things that are a couple of notches up from merely practical and I am prepared to pay for them.

    To me, you sound like you are expecting others to make goods for you and sell them at a loss simply because you want things that are outside of your financial grasp.

    If you want nice things - work harder. If you don't want them, fine, but don't tell me what I should or should not want.

    Excuse me if the foregoing sounds a little strident as I certainly didn't mean it to but I don't think that your posts were realistic.

  • caryscott
    15 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    The notion that consumers determine what is available in a free market economy is rather naive. We get to choose what we like best from what is made available to us by manufacturers. If no manufacturer makes it we the consumer can't choose it and that's how capitalism really works, which still beats the alternatives. These day at least it is getting easier to access things that are being made for other markets through the internet so we often do have more choices which are closer to what we might actually want rather than what manufacturers want to sell us.

  • mangotoo
    Original Author
    15 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Let's look at it another way sailorman. Awhile back didn't Emril broker a deal with Martha Stewart regarding his product line for a few hundred million dollars? With that kind of leverage how does one compete? If you're a mom & pop retailer, if there still such a thing, and they ran a successful business you could expect one of three things; a buyout,a merge, or the inability to compete i.e. O O B! In essence isn't this a monoply? The people who responded to my complaint have it right about choices i.e. "you don't have to buy it, go somewhere else".There was once a time when a person was featured on a package it was either an animation or just an American icon. What happend? I hope I'm not proseletising but the Pope understood the dangers of excessive wealth and he is right. Look what's happening now.

  • lowspark
    15 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Sara,
    Sorry I missed your irony, but you see, in the same paragraph you referred to China and the moral/ethical dilemma of buying goods made there. That didn't (and still doesn't) strike me as ironic.

    - or you could just blame the people who buy stuff they don't really need. But that's the point of marketing - to persuade people they want stuff they don't need. And stuff has been cheap because we buy it from China, without questioning how much anyone gets paid, or whether they have access to healthcare or decent housing.

    In any case, the OP clearly believes that this country and this world would be better off if we only produced cheap utilitarian products with no advertising and few stores. That's not America, that's (I guess) what USSR was.

    On a lighter note... (well maybe not!)...
    Cocoa? Why is it only good in Switzerland?
    I'd like to heartily disagree with that statement! I made a trip to Geneva a year ago and brought home a bunch of chocolate, convinced that it was better than good ol' Hershey's. Well, after eating a few bars over time I decided I do like Hershey's better. Maybe because it's what I'm used to, I don't know. Yes Swiss chocolate is different... but better? In a word... NO.

  • igloochic
    15 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    LOL lowspark :oP Uncle Hershey would be happy to hear that.

    Actually Hershey chocolate (and most american chocolate) is made with more oils than most Swiss chocolate. Some like that...some don't so much :) I'm in that second category.

    Oh and good news everyone! I have looked out my back door and I can't see anything going on with those pesky ruskies :oP Go on about your business...I'll keep them under control :oP heh heh

  • sailormann
    15 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    "Awhile back didn't Emril broker a deal with Martha Stewart regarding his product line for a few hundred million dollars? With that kind of leverage how does one compete?"

    There are definitely a lot of people in the world who find a celebrity endorsement helpful when making a buying decision. (Far too many in my opinion but I digress...) This is the "mass market".

    As a small, independent business you can't compete with mass market brands - don't even think about it.

    Figure out what it is that you do best and do it. Charge enough for your product to stay in business. If you don't value yourself or the goods that you produce, nobody else will. That said - don't inflate your prices unnecessarily.

    If you treat people as you would like to be treated, you'll do well. They will come back for more and the will tell their friends. That is how Emeril got to be where he is, and Martha, and Rachel, and just about every other brand name you can think of.

    If a customer is unhappy - fix the problem, don't make excuses.

    NOBODY expects perfection all the time, but they do expect near perfection most of the time and they really, really hope that when there is a problem, it won't be difficult to correct it.

    It's pretty simple actually. Be honest and sell a good product. Be pleasant and easy to deal with, (can't stress that enough these days) and you will prosper.

    Be difficult and whine or complain or make the buying experience difficult in any way for your customers and you're history. For me, the service and the atmosphere are as important, and sometimes more so, than the product I am buying.

    Good Luck !

  • brunosonio
    15 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Stw954...thanks for saying what you did about the FoodNetwork! I have to agree, it seems to be more about personality than real cooking nowadays. And all of the hosts spend more time tasting and raving about their own cooking than actually doing it in a way that's informative and educational. It really has become Food Porn, more than anything else, LOL.

    We're hearing the same buzz phrases over and over...if I have to hear "big flavors" one more time, I'll puke!

    I never knew that about Batali...I always wondered what happened to his show.

  • kclv
    15 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    The reason LNT went under because people have stopped spending, and also because they sold the same items for considerably higher prices than their competitors (Target and Kohls, for example). My local retail center has all 3 stores, and I can go into each and compare prices for the exact same item. Typically Target is cheaper, unless Kohl's has a sale, and LNT was always the most expensive. LNT did have a bigger selection, though, and while I didn't shop there often, I will miss having the choice of going there.
    Merchandise with celebrity tie-ins is nothing new. Typically, these celebrity cooks are encouraged to do a cookware line at the height of their popularity. Since they all have a limited time frame, they go out and try to make as much money as possible while they can. Nothing wrong with that. If someone wants to spend $20 for a plastic Rachael Ray "garbage bowl", then good for them. Not my cup of tea, but to each his own.
    Not everyone can afford All-Clad and Le Creuset. For people on a limited budget, the celebrity cookware looks nice, and is a step up from the really cheap stuff.

  • mustbnuts zone 9 sunset 9
    15 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Chocolate? Ah, did you know that tomorrow is National Chocolate Day? The US does make some good chocolate. Scharffen Berger is one. Sur La Table carries it as does Whole Foods. I, however am a die hard Valrhona fan. If I get into trouble a quick fix of Callebaut will do. If that fails, Guittard (another American manufacturer) is also quite nice. Sorry, off to the newly remodeled kitchen to finish baking my chocolate butter cream cupcakes with coconut butter cream frosting for National Chocolate Day. We are celebrating at work tomorrow!

  • loves2cook4six
    15 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Well for what it's worth, I just bought a new roasting pan from Amazon. I needed one that would work on my induction cooktop (a girl's got to be able to turn all those drippings into gravy ya know) and the only induction capable pan was one made by Mauviel. So I reluctantly handed over my hard earned money. Imagine my surprise when this huge box showed up at my door - surely the pan wasn't that big! It didn't look like it would fit in my oven. SO I open the box and in side is another box. Well sealed and addressed to amazon from Emile Henry LTD. Wait a minute - I ordered a Mauviel pan, didn't I? Rush to open box #2 and inside is box #3 but at least it say Mauviel and there is my beautiful new pan and it came from Emile Henry!

  • pollyannacorona
    15 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    iglo & stw, I agree completely. I happen to find it a shame anytime smaller companies go under. Unfortunately those specialty stores are struggling and Walmart is thriving. I also, refuse to purchase some products on personal principles. I dont buy China produced if possible (hard these days) for economic and safety reasons. Unfortunate because all those Disney play cosmetics are all made there and my granddaughter loves that stuff, I just feel its unsafe. Also I am currently avoiding anything Martha, just because I dont appreciate her pushing her political agenda on her show. A shame because I love her cookbooks & products at Michaels. Sure shes entitled to put herself on the limb and offend half the populus -its her show- shes built her empire and can do as she pleases, and Im entiltled to pass on her products at Michaels or at Macys. I can only imagine the money she doles out to candidates I dont support so I dont support her. I do love her cool ideas though and was a fan way back when she only was a caterer getting raves and starting to publish her cookbooks. Everytime I see a political agenda I dont appreciate, I stop buying that persons magazines or wears. This is a free country at least for now. When possible I try to support smaller business, and stay away from places like Walmart who I think can afford to sell so cheap it puts the smaller guys out of business. It is scary to think how many wonderful stores we are losing LNT and Bombay just recently.