Looking at Capital's installation diagrams, I think the rangetop is too low, the top of the stainless body is supposed to be higher than the top of the counter by 7/8". It would need to be around 2" +/- higher.

You might get faulted for failure to have either the backguard or a non combustible surface on the wall behind the rangetop. And/or for the outlet that looks like its positioned directly behind the rangetop.

Around here, I can call the mechanical or electrical inspectors and ask their opinion.

Here is a link that might be useful: I'm sure you already have this... Spec Sheet

I'm not sure how anyone could regard quartz as being flammable. The cooktop is definitely to low. Maybe use some left over filler below it and blocking behind it to raise it up.

This isn't a criticism at all, but I think the op wants to cook on it before the kitchen passes final inspection (I sure as heck would). I do know that the fireproof tile will eventually be installed as will the hood.

AFAIK, Quartz counter tops (engineered stone, not the pure rock) isn't fireproof, its merely heat resistant.

Just for fun, I looked up Cambria and its got a slightly higher flame spread rating (17) than a bale of straw(10) meaning cambria will spread flame MORE than a bale but not nearly as much as something with a rating of 100. Because of all the chat dissing the flame spread tests, so technical as to be well over my head, I'm not sure that info is worth more than a chuckle.

"0" clearance base cabinet installation"

The AHJ is being an idiot.

You probably need to get the actual listing for the unit from the manufacturer and may need to have a conversation with his boss, possibly with an attorney present.

Thanks bmorepanic, robbcs3.

I actually asked for it to be installed as low as possible (love the sunken cooktop idea). Had definitely missed that dimension requirement on the install drawing. Yes, we should be able to lift up if required, but I'd almost rather cut into the top of the adjacent cabinets to lower those. I'm 5'3'' and sure to be shrinking before too long so the idea of 36'' CT + 7/8 inch higher... is not so appealing.

Definitely planning on something non-combustible surrounding the cooktop - sides, back, back wall, top -- just trying to understand what 'non-combustible' material means.

I called Town Hall, and the plumbing/gas inspector is going to call me back.

This is why I love this site so much, thanks!!

Outlets are actually centered above the two flanking lower cabinets.

And yes, cooked on it last night -- after ~5 months of cooking on my camping stoves.... no way I was waiting!

I would have done the same. Is it as nice as advertised?

bmorepanic -- I can't really answer because all I did was boil water for some cut up squash... but did it ever heat up quickly! It's gorgeous but all I'm really doing is turning on the gas and watching at this point. Will look forward to actually cooking...

brickeyee -- What?!! Am I the AHJ, whatever that is? Quite possible :) have been making most of the decisions, for better, for worse...

If resting the cooktop on the sides of the cabinet, which were cut down a little but have been strongly reinforced is not the way to proceed, please let me know reasoning. It's not too late to change. Thanks in advance.

I have a CC rangetop too. Matter of fact, I just posted in Appliances about how the countertop should meet it. The specs, DH, and the countertop templater all say the counter needs to be tucked under the lip on the sides of the unit so that it looks like its sitting on the counter. I would have preferred that it look like yours where the counters and the rangetop are at the same level. I'm not sure what to do. I'd like it to look cleaner with both at the same height, and I'd prefer the rangetop was lower for ease of cooking.

Since I'm acting as my own GC and appliance installer, I'm trying to shuffle through this on my own.

"Definitely planning on something non-combustible surrounding the cooktop - sides, back, back wall, top -- just trying to understand what 'non-combustible' material means."

AHJ is 'Authority Having Jurisdiction', the inspector. Very unlikely to be you.

Pull the actual code listing for the top.

It appears to be zero clearance to the cabinets on each side.

Drywall is 'non-flammable.'

The manufacturer specifies the way the rangetop should be installed, not a KD. If your guy is a stickler, it won't pass inspection now because of its position as it doesn't have the correct specified height over the counter. So much of it is about the local inspectors, tho, and what they look for.

I saw a listing photo of someone who installed a high powered rangetop flush with the top of the cabinets and the counters were higher than the edge of the rangetop. It wasn't as powerful as yours. The huge black sear mark on the edge of the slightly melted counter impressed the heck outta me. I'm not sure of the exact counter material, but that is definately one of the issues. The other part is that it might do something like heat up the cabinet walls to the side too high.

If you wanted to keep the top of the rangetop where it is now, the top of its cabinet would need to be lowered further so the lip rested on the counter and at least 12" of cabinets to both sides would need to also be lowered to be close to what they are calling for.

Hi again. First of all, I should have mentioned earlier how great your kitchen is looking! You're getting very close to being done.

Trevor was kind enough to post this CC customer picture on my thread in Appliances that I linked earlier. I thought I'd post the pic here if you don't mind and if I'm not committing a privacy faux pax. I'm not trying to beat you up about this. Like I said, I'm fumbling through on my own and wanted my CC to be like yours. It looks like I must do it like this.

Someone, I believe it's rhome, has stainless steel on each side of her range. The kitchen on the link has it as well -- the stainless counter "tips" are about 12-18 inches on each side will take care of the heat issue. I'd be sure that the ends adjacent to the range are as deep as they need to be.

Funny, but this kitchen also has a low range. It looks great, I must say. But you don't want those honkin big flames too low.

I would tile the backsplash and the entire area behind the range with ceramic or porcelain tile. No need to do the ceiling but I'd be sure that's done with high quality paint in a finish that's scrubbable.

As long as you have a good quality hood with the proper cfms there should be no problem. The cooktop looks to be well situated vis a vis the back wall.

This is a very powerful rangetop and I can understand the inspector placing it in a pro category. Stainless steel and ceramic or porcelain tile are your friends here. I'd personally go with glazed, which wipes off well (though porcelain will too). A natural stone backsplash would be less desirable in IMO because even with a sealer it would be vulnerable to grease splatter.

Here is a link that might be useful: Stainless steel counter tips

Just to clarify - the installation instructions for Wolf are different. It permits the top of the unit (the burner grates are still higher than the counter) to be level with the counter top but not lower than the countertop.

The Capital specifies higher than the counter. I'm thinking the other thing to ask is whether mounting it lower voids the warranty.

"I'm thinking the other thing to ask is whether mounting it lower voids the warranty."

Worse than a warranty, it probably violates the code listing for the appliance.

Every code requires you to follow the manufacturer's installation instructions, NOT what an AHJ dreams up (their job is to verify you followed the instructions).

Waranty and also safety. The flames on that rangetop have a wide spread and can even go beyond a pan -- that side flange on the range is really needed.

The pic breezygirl posted is great as the stone tucks under the rim of the range -- guarantee that it's higher. Unless I was using granite or marble, I'd personally want a stainless-clad piece of counter made in exactly the same shape L-shape as the stone in breezy's pic. That piece could extend to the end of the vertical cabinets on each side of the range and then the quartz could start.

OT, but I can't wait to see the Torquay countertops - that's what we'll have, as long as it fits in the budget. We haven't priced it out yet, but I finally saw it in person last weekend and fell in love.

Just to add another thing vis a vis the suggestion of stainless steel adjacent counter tips:

Although of course SS is non-combustible it is usually mounted directly over a wood or MDF substrate that would be flammable. And of course SS will transfer (conduct) heat in a red hot second.

It would be a fine material if the counter protection need was very mild (level or below cooktop) but it wouldn't really provide the necesssary thermal protection if it was mounted on the sides of a rising counter edge where the edge would be exposed to continuous lateral heat and (possibly) flames from a high power burner. Its main use beside a range is to provide a non-marking plunk space for hot things from the stove.

Tile would be a better choice there as it is less thermally conductive and its substrate is generally cementitious backerboard (non-combustible, itself.)

People often confuse the inherent non-combustibilty of a material with being able to insulate proximate surfaces that are flammable from conductive heat. Those are two different properties. This comes up a lot in woodstove and fireplace planning where there are adjacent exposed combustible materials.

Hope you can work out your plan. I, too, have planned to lower my range to the max possible as I am short. But my counters (and cabs) will also be shortened on the stove run to portect the side exposures. OTOH, one issue that is inherent in a lower cooking surface is the slightly increased risk of clothing, especially sleeves, catching fire. I have cooked on an old-fashioned, wood-fired, cookstove that was scarcely 30" high and it was too low, though delightful for looking down into every pan.

L.

Contact the manufacturer for a full listing report.

They have it to offer the product for sale in the US.

The cur-sheet shows a zero clearance appliance with the typical 18 inch adjacent clearance to flammables (cabinets above and beside) with a 13 inch depth limit, 30 inches directly above, and the typical over the counter mounting with zero clearance to under counter framing, and either a backguard or 12 inches of clearance.

You are being yanked around with things like "our local building inspector regards these as professional appliances and will be a stickler for clearance requirements."

The clearance requirements are on the cut-sheet.
Follow them and you should be fine.

Brickeyee: Thanks. I called Capital and they confirmed the zero clearance; I am calling back Monday to speak to an engineer, to discuss the 'commercial range' distinction / possible need to be hard wired to hood; as well as to request a full listing report. I will ask them about mounting it lower.

FYI here is their number: 866-402-4600

Breezy -- I've been following your kitchen with great interest; your posts were so very timely. CT templaters came today and I decided to (sigh) raise the cooktop to 'normal' height. Oh well. BTW -- love your hood!

Rococogurl -- I love stainless steel too but took the plunge and went with the quartz as adjacent CT material. If I burn the quartz too badly then I may well replace with the SS at some point in the future.... Fortunately, I will have lots of room on the CT itself to put down hot things.

magdiego -- I got to see a partial slab of the torquay last weekend and that cemented the deal! It looks terrific.

liriodendron -- thanks, good point. In hindsight, to achieve the true sunken stove, I probably should have put in vanity height cabinets for my CT and adjacent cabinets. I just got all excited when the stove was being installed and I thought that possibly I could lower it.

You do ned to be aware that if even granite is close enough to a fmale it WILL heat up and can then shatter if cooled quickly (like running awet sponge over it).

real granite is not as likely as many of the stones sold as 'granite.'

I cannot tell what the counter materiel actually is.

All the site says is "quarts" but it does not appear to be a slab of stone, but a man made composite material.
while the stone portion is non-flammable, that does not mean the composite they are using to hold everything together cannot be damaged by heat (or flame) and is non-flammable.

fyi - pro-style ranges such as the CC are not commercial - they're made for residential use and your concern about having to have the hood hard-wired to come on automatically seems unfounded. Of course that doesn't mean that your inspector won't be an a$$hole about it :-)

Stainless steel is not an especially good heat conductor, which is why it is combined with copper or aluminum in cookware.

The OP sounds like she's on top of it and has the solution she wants.

I think it would be simpler to raise the floor than to lower all the cabinets. Unless you're happy with a 2" stepped countertop. That is, you cut down the cabinets by 2"-3" for one foot either side of the cooktop so that you have enough room to put in 2cm or 3cm materiel and set the cooktop on top of it.

By raising the floor, I mean put down one of those gel pads to stand on that raises your height a bit.

I am reminded of that show about a new restaurant in NYC and their startup problems. They had a big gas grill in a corner with stainless on the walls and a vent above. The wall behind caught fire. They had a hard time getting an extinguisher behind the stainless wall panel, but of course the fire hose solved most of that problem.

Hi Oldbat. We are on the same stage, aren't we? My counters were templated Monday and will be installed next Thursday. Do you know when your counters will go in? I can't wait to see yours!

I plan to have some sort of anti-fatigue mat between my island (for prepping) and rangetop. Raising me up should help offset the extra CC height. Plus, happy feet is an extra benefit.

Hi Breezy, yes we are... you're definitely ahead of me with the Countertops though; can't wait to see your marble. I don't have a date for my CT's -- next 2 weeks? And now I'm rethinking the SS -- maybe will put some adjacent to CT and in the back. DH is working on hood liner install today.

"Stainless steel is not an especially good heat conductor..."

It is still good enough that simply placing it over an otherwise combustible surface is not going to meet protection rules.

The stainless pans still get plenty hot inside.

The other metals are to distribute heat more evenly.

Quartz composite countertops are mostly resin, not mostly quartz. The manufacturers like to fudge about them being 93% quartz, but they count it by weight, not by volume. If you look at it by volume, then around half or more of that "stone" you have sitting directly adjacent to a 22K open flame is mostly plastic. Plastic will scorch if exposed to too much heat. Plastic can burn under certain circumstances.

I have personally seen this happen when a customer installed a GE Profile cooktop with a full height quartz backsplash. She was informed about the risk, and I made her sign a waiver, But she still went for it. And in a light color too (Urban Cream), where it showed up almost immediately. She ended up just covering over her backsplash in that area with a sheet of stainless. It's probably a nice dark brown behind that stainless, but at least it's not visible. If she had a "kitchen situation" that got out of hand, it could possibly ignite the quartz behind the stainless (or the quartz counters that were adjacent to the cooktop) so planning something smarter and better looking from the beginning would behoove anyone else in that potential situation.

Ceramic tile over CBU will satisfy any AHJ in the country, even if they are overkill and following the commercial kitchen requirements. The no 0" clearance thing, well, that's certainly NOT in the specs, so that is one that might need you printing off the range's specs for the AHJ to have a copy when he visits. A lot of times they like to follow their own make up "rules" about things, but having a black and white copy there with the circles and arrows and numbers along with actual photos of your install with circles and arrows and numbers---well, it just might overwhelm him with technicalia enough that he signs off without a fight. If he doesn't, then you already have your ducks in a row with good documentation for a visit to his superviser.

This is great as I'm in the middle of planning a Culinarian rangetop installation myself.

On the backsplash: so, should I go with cementitious backerboard (what a great name) as the substrate the stainless steel backsplash is mounted on? If I squint really hard at the Capital cut sheet, they seem to be specifying a 7/8" gap between the backsplash and whatever is behind it. (Don't pro kitchens have two-layer backsplashes?) But that looks harder to implement.

@HollySprings said "Quartz composite countertops are mostly resin, not mostly quartz."

I have seen this claim multiple times on these forums. IT IS NOT TRUE. Simple calculations show that Quartz countertops are well over 80% Quartz by volume.

Density of quartz = ~2.6 g/cc
Density of acrylic resin = ~1.0 g/cc (the same as water)

If the material is 93% by weight quartz + 7% by weight resin, in 1g of material we would have 0.93g quartz and 0.07g resin.

Volume of 0.93g quartz = 0.93 / 2.6 = 0.36cc
Volume of 0.07g resin = 0.07 / 1.0 = 0.07cc

So 1g of material has a volume of 0.36 + 0.07 = 0.43cc

Percentage of quartz by volume = 0.36 / 0.43 = 84%
Percentage of resin by volume = 0.07 / 0.43 = 16%

It is obvious that quartz countertops are mostly quartz regardless of whether you measure weight or volume. For quartz countertops to be more than half resin, quartz would have to be about as dense as depleted uranium.

I did some tests of the heat resistance and flammability of this material. First, I heated a cast-iron skillet to about 430F and placed it on a 12'' square of the material. After the pan had cooled, I removed it and examined the material. I found no discoloration or damage of any kind. I found references on the web saying the material is OK up to 350F; my test showed this is probably conservative.

Next, I took a propane blowtorch (this torch can easily heat copper tubing until it glows red, the flame temperature is over 2,000F). I applied the tip of the blowtorch flame (the hottest part) directly to the material. Applying the torch for a short period created the pale brown discoloration that you describe above. It's clear that the resin degrades in the presence of very high temperatures.

I continued to apply the blowtorch flame until the surface of the material glowed red, at which point I removed the flame. The surface of the material burned with a small yellow smokey flame for about 1-2 seconds, then self-extinguished. The surface was blistered and charred to a depth of about 3mm. The smoke was black and acrid, but there was not a lot of it. The back of the 2cm thick sample was still comfortable to touch, so even under these extreme conditions, flammable material behind the quartz would not have been damaged.

A "kitchen situation" such as a pan of burning cooking oil on top of a counter would not produce heat on the quartz anywhere near as intense as the blowtorch flame.

Bottom line: I would not use quartz "engineered stone" material for a backsplash directly behind gas burners, but only because it might get damaged, not because it presents any kind of fire hazard. Electric cooktops would never produce the kind of intense local heating required to damage the material.

@colin3 - I think its saying that the ss backguard is 7/8" thick, but call customer service to be sure.

I don't think it can be that, bmore ... 7/8" thick stainless steel sheet (plate, actually) would be like 30 lbs. per square foot. Not to say massively expensive.

Umm, its hollow? Sheet steel with bent edges.

I read the 7/8'' to mean the maximum thickness of the backsplash, not a minimum requirement. Some folks use 3cm countertop as a backsplash; that would be too thick to fit.

Normal thickness stainless sheet straight onto a cement board wall would be OK. I would not put sheet metal directly onto regular drywall in this application.

But its the diagram of the backguard sold by the mfg, not a design for a non-combustible surface(altho I'm sure it is)?

Took a while to get through to someone knowledgeable at Capital. What I found is

(a) That thing shown (http://capital-cooking.com/product/documents/Culinarian_30_Rangetop_SellSheet.pdf) in the "standard installation" that is 7/8" thick and 18" high? It's a (partial?) cross-section of a backguard-and-shelf unit made by Capital. It has a double metal wall that could protect a combustible surface behind it. I asked where this backguard was on the Capital website and they guy said I should ask my dealer if I wanted it. The AJ Madison website shows something like it for some widths e.g. http://www.ajmadison.com/cgi-bin/ajmadison/CGRT362B2N.html

(b) If you don't want to buy this backguard and want to go with a simple sheet of stainless steel as your backsplash, put a non-combustible panel behind it, like cementitious backerboard. That non-combustible panel should extend about 9" below the top of the cooktop.

The rangetop can sit on a combustible cabinet below it. As to countertop on either side of the rangetop, he was happy with my choice of soapstone. I would check with them before using a combustible surface.

And Capital: You need to work on your interface with your customers. High-BTU cooking appliances are still unusual in residential settings, and many pros don't know how to install them. Dealers are not always highly focused on these questions. *You* have a responsibility to communicate safety information more clearly. As you can see in the comments above, your published materials are inadequate. And it took me four calls over three days, a voicemail that was never answered, and a lot of time on hold to get through to someone who ... was nice enough, but is clearly not used to dealing with the public.

PeterH2 -- loved the experiments, thanks so much for doing and posting your results.

Colin - great research.

Since my CT is bumped out a total of 9 inches, I have wood currently in place, securing the back of the cabinet to the wall.

I could certainly remove the wood, apply cement board on top of the current drywall and/or replace it with cement board (and yes, get rid of outlets). Then, build a wooden support between the adjacent cabinets (for mounting surface) and use cement board as the surface on which I'm mounting my SS/tiled countertop behind and adjacent to the cooktop.

I think I'm missing something though. Cement board, I understand. Then, if SS panel as backsplash, does this go on top of the cement board, behind the back of the CT cabinet, extending down 9 inches? Meaning, the wooden cabinet frame is between the two?

Maybe I'm missing what we're trying to protect here. Here's current and planned -- does my 'future' make sense? Assume cementboard goes up 30''.

Two things.

1. Thank you for posting the pull pics on my thread. I was late getting back to it and wanted to make sure you saw that I did respond to what you posted. Thank you again!

2. ALL of this is making me wonder if I'll have a problem at final inspection with my CC rangetop seeing as I have nothing even remotely close to the protections you're talking about. At move in, I'll have a rangetop, hood, and lovely primed drywall between the two awaiting future tile bs.

The spec sheet says that it's zero clearance below the counter. That makes some crazy sense to me because these things are designed to be placed in a wood or wood product cabinet.

OldBat - if the countertop does not need to be protected at the sides, it does not need to be protected at the back either. The burner flames are well enclosed and cannot possible get anywhere near your countertop when the rangetop is installed correctly. So, just continue the countertop around the back of the rangetop.

Ceramic tile over drywall is fine for the backsplash, because ceramic tiles are good insulators. You only need a more robust substrate (cement board) behind the backsplash if it a single layer of stainless steel, because stainless steel is a relatively good conductor of heat. Rather than bumping the wall out, you could remove the drywall and replace it with cement board. It depends what you plan to do either side of the stainless steel - you probably don't want a big step in the surface.

In your case, you have a huge space behind the rangetop, so the backsplash will not be subjected to any significant heat. So you really don't need to worry too much about any of this.

BreezyGirl - I would expect you to fail inspection, because drywall is generally considered combustible because of the paper surface and latex paint. You should install a backsplash. If you want to wait a while before finalizing/installing your one true backsplash, a sheet of stainless steel on top of 1/2" cement board could be screwed in place as a temporary measure. It may look bad, but it should be cheap to do.

Colin3 - "That non-combustible panel should extend about 9" below the top of the cooktop." I'm not buying that (I know you are simply repeating what you were told). Both the range and the rangetop allow zero clearance from counter height down. This is perfectly clear from the installation diagrams. Bluestar has that requirement, Capital does not. Take a look at the link below (which also shows it is permissible to install the top flush with the counter as BreezyGirl originally wanted to).

I think folks in this thread are beginning to over-think this topic...

Here is a link that might be useful: CC range sell sheet

I think there are two questions, PeterH2. One is what you can get away with. And there, sure: the published sheets appear to permit what you describe.

Capital's published sheets also don't mention the non-combustible substrate requirement for a single layer of steel, which we all agree is necessary.

I intend to pass inspection, but I'm interested in what is best practice, *not* just in what I can get past an inspector. At this point in my own planning, happily, extending the non-combustible panel down another 9" is trivial, so I'll do it. (And sure, it's probably overkill -- but I have nothing like the kind of expertise in fire safety that would let me form a view.)

One of my occasional frustrations with this forum is that people confuse passing inspection with being safe. As I pointed out above, experience with high-BTU cooking appliances in residential settings is still thin. (Just look at how poorly people understand the ventilation implications.) Codes lag.

The specialty appliance industry has discovered a market in people like me who want high heat. This is great! Yay, entrepreneurs. But, in the nature of things, that industry will always be more focused on making sales than saying wait a minute, have you worked out all the implications of buying and installing this thing. Local codes may or may not catch up. So we're left to figure this stuff out for ourselves, on forums like this.

On another note...

How did your templating go, Old Bat?

All I can say is, "Thank you, thank you, thank you!" to this thread. My DH and I just had this conversation, and we (okay, really just me) are considering the Cambria quartz. Great to know that we're on the same page as the informed GW'ers!

Counter tops are still not in (long story, hopefully Tuesday after Thanksgiving). I did find out from Capital that the rangetop CAN be mounted so it's flush with the countertop level (vs. sitting on top of the countertop), so that's what we'll be doing.

Perhaps it's a hold over from the days before pro ranges and unnecessary but back in the day when friends had Garlands and Vulcans in their kitchens, there usually was tile behind the entire back of the range and up to the vent hood, a tile inset on the floor and stainless-clad side on adjacent cabinets.

That's overkill now with the residential ranges but I wouldn't put a high powered range in without cement board floor to ceiling behind it. The wall is open, why not? Then either stainless cladding or tile goes on that and no issues.

Question... Does this mean I can't use quartz as my countertop? So I have to either use granite or marble?

tncraft -- No. We're using quartz as our countertop. As pointed out above, the specs call for zero clearance.