I must also have terrible style and taste, since I have and love onlays, moldings, and those same corbels.

Can you provide a photo?

WhiteRiver, the Original Poster said she liked the critiques and wasn't offended.

This is a situation where one has to choose between open and honest discourse that is picking apart a picture to understand what the elements are and what the interplay between them is, which is a useful and educational process, and formal manners where no one ever says what's on their minds in pursuit of social propriety. I actually agree about you on the subject of manners and generosity of spirit, but the location and intent are key. I've known people who walk around all day with a tag up, or a piece of tissue trailing a shoe or the back of a skirt caught up in the undies, with no one ever saying anything because it would be poor manners, leaving the person in question to be purely mortified from having gone so long looking a fool.

Critique is a very important part of the design process. As has been said, the overall impression of this kitchen is very warm and inviting. Figuring out what works to produce that, and which details are unsuccessful is how one figures out what one wishes to take from it and what should be left to the originator.

Those corbels, for instance, would be fine if they were the correct size and if they went with their surroundings. Notice how the cabinet doors are smaller than the inset space for them so that they can open under the too long corbels? And the acanthus leaves don't actually go with the grapevines, and the rope spindles, given so many of them, detract from the rest of the styling. The vines, themselves, look fine.

It's not that moldings and appliques can't look good. They can. I don't think any of us said that they shouldn't be done at all, other than being a pain to clean.

I'm sorry if you feel my analysis of the mistakes here have offended your sense of propriety, but the whole point of this forum is to share information and advice. Sitting silent doesn't help anybody.

Can you provide a photo?

LOL!

pllog,

I am not referring to any one person here. I think sometimes people forget that there is a real live person behind that post. It is hard to give and receive information sometimes in the manner it was intended.

I totally get the fact that you all are very generous with your time and critiques. I know there was valuable criticism and information conveyed.

I think some people do offer that critique in a more gracious manner than others. Some people are not as kind in their manner as they would be in person.

Sometimes it can become a feeding frenzy and people get their very real feelings hurt. I am glad that the OP said that she was fine and welcoming in the criticism.

In fact, pllog, your critism came after the OP's permission to carry on, and you still managed to end it with a positive and an apology to the kitchen's owner. That is the kindness I would hope for.

Juliet3,

I have a picture posted toward the end in the thread below.

Here is a link that might be useful: Pondering stools

WhiteRiver your kitchen is beautiful and tasteful. I think that's the difference. People I think are reacting to the over-the-top nature of this kitchen and the problems w/ execution (i.e. the underscaled range). People have also suggested that the OP could take some of the elements from this kitchen to create a similar feeling w/o creating a tuscan wonderland. I don't think people are saying all uses of corbels and appliques are horrible. At least I hope not! I have corbels and appliques too and no one has told me my kitchen plan is ugly, although maybe people are just being nice, LOL.

Two words to keep in mind: emperor's clothes
I sure wish I had been warned about several ex boyfriends I thought were great at the time. Honesty can be a kindness.

beaglesdoitbetter,

LOL thanks. I don't really have my feelings hurt. I do think others certainly could, but thanks for the kind words.

I am over the top in my decor, so I know my style is not current, nor appealing to many. That's ok though, I am old and my house is older than me, so it is all good.

You have made a convert out of me on blue though. I was never a blue person, but you have made blue very appealing. Your home is beautiful and I am now incorporating blue in my new bedroom. Can't wait to see your finished home.

WhiteRiverSooner-I think your kitchen is beautiful. And it's not because I'm "old" :-) I'm pretty sure I'm younger than the average GW poster. Some people like the look. Some don't. Simple as that.

WhiteRiver, glad to hear you are a blue convert! Its such a great color :) And I'm not old either. I'm not even 30 yet :) And my house has appliques aplenty, on walls, doors, and on cabinets in every room. If you don't like onlays, don't come over.

Onlays and appliques have been around a LONG time and I don't think they're going anywhere. Can't get too much more over-the-top than this:
{{!gwi}}

I was there, beagles! One of the mirrors had a finger dust signature saying, "CLEAN ME."

Glad we're all warm and cozy now, all nicey-nice with a rude individual who insulted the valuable members here. I don't consort below my station.

Marcolo are you serious? It really had a finger dust signature? Or am I being gullible?

I'm not trying to be nicey-nice w/ anyone, FYI, I'm just going with my official political position of not all onlays are bad. That's the only side I'm on. Onlay side.

Three words come to mind with the Versailles shot.

Occupy Wall Street. LOL

The poster did say "Can you kitchen gurus tell me anything else about this particular style?". I think that it was fair to tell her that, among kitchen gurus, that kitchen in particular executed in that manner would be considered passe.

Among kitchen gurus.
That kitchen in particular.
Executed in that manner.

We would have been remiss not to let her know that.

That room in Versailles made me dizzy IRL. Too much of too much with too much and too much. Gotta admire over the top though.

I opened the OP right after it was posted before any comments. I quietly hit the back button on the iPad and stepped away so as not to offend.

OMG mtnrdedux, no more perfect words could ever be spoken. And look how that all turned out.

Beagles, swear to you, cross my heart. Versailles is absolutely hilarious to visit. I was there many years ago, so the visitor experience may have changed. But back then, all the other young kids like me described it as Disneyland minus the go-carts. Jammed with people, nowhere to turn left or right in the crowds, completely over the top yet too big to take care of properly. The mirrors were filthy, and the "Clean Me"--yes, in English--really topped it all off.

OK, back to mtnredux: I fully expect to turn on the news sometime soon, and watch the next version of La Nuit de Varennes, as the traders make an all-out break for the Tijuana border station.

Marcolo, I was at Versailles when I was like 10. I don't remember the mirrors being dirty. I remember spinning in circles in delight and wishing I could live there (mainly because of the gardens and not so much the hall of mirrors although I do see things to appreciate in it). I would like to say I've outgrown that now, but...
Now Disneyland, on the other hand, I've never liked. Don't know what that says about me...

Cara mia! I love it when you talk French.

An Italian ejaculatory phrase praising French. Gotta love it.

Beagles, the coolest thing about the gardens is that all of the avenues emanate from the state bedroom of the king. It looks like a Marvel comic movie effect of beams exploding out in perfect angles and straight lines from the back of the palace. It's exactly what happens when you get too obsessed with layout.

Isn't Versailles the place where the tours are led through the servants' passages? The only thing I remember clearly (besides a lot of wine) is a very pretty small bedchamber. It was cream with Wedgwood blue. :) One thing to remember about the hall of mirrors is that it was meant to intimidate and a lot of the too muchness was necessary just for lighting. ;) Of course, even though most of my decorative taste is pretty clean lined, my inner baroque does pop out sometimes...

I have to agree with Beagles. :) WhiteRiverSooner does have a lot of features in her kitchen that on a list might be "the same" as in the OP photo. The difference is tasteful restraint! Twist accents--but not between each cabinet set; feature insets in the higher backsplashes--but simple and accenting the cabinetry; carved corbels--but proportioned modestly and in places where they actually appear to be (and actually may be) supporting something; complex crowns--but in a consistent shape; multiple cabinet heights--but two total, rather than three in three cabinets; lively stone--but with a simple edge; specialty shapes--but not in the way; multiple panel details--but simple paint. I could go on quite awhile.

WRS, I thought you were talking about me because you referred to my most vociferous complaints. I stand behind my statements, though, as they might relate to the others. I think what's actually happening is that people have in the last little while been posting a lot of what-do-you-think threads about ridiculous things, and people jumped on it in this thread without waiting to make sure it was that kind of thread. Dianalo is right--brutal honesty can be a kindness. You're right too--brutal honesty can also be brutal. I wouldn't worry so much about hurting someone's feelings, per se, as scaring her off. If a poster sticks to it and finds out why it was trashed and either sticks up for herself or learns something, that's great. If she slinks away to lurkerdom, or worse, never to be heard from again, we've failed.

I would never choose WRS's kitchen--it's not to my taste--but it's very well designed and really lovely. There are references and repetitions in it that could be described with words one uses for poetry. That isn't at all necessary in a kitchen design, but it's pretty. I hope that people aren't just throwing brickbats at things that aren't their own style. I love Beagles's kitchen but I could never live easily in her house. Beagles may have over the top taste, but the result is lovely. Lovely is good. I still think the OP photo looks warm and happy and inviting--which is very good--but it's not lovely.

I love Versailles. I was in my 30's when I visited, but I felt like spinning in circles of delight and would have loved to live there.

Tinycastles - thank you for that.

dianalo - I get it, I just feel the Emperor would appreciate someone saying "Psst, hey emperor your clothes may not be what they seem, as they are rather transparent." vs a group pointing and laughing at the size of his onlays and appliques.

Sorry. Not going to pet and coddle WhiteRiverSooner sob-it's-all-about-me behavior. That's how you end up with ratty white toy poodles who snap off your knuckles.

Really, Marcolo? It's exactly what happens when you get too obsessed with layout. I would have thought that it's exactly what happens when one is a landscape architect (or whatever they were called there and then), who stands to be set for life if he pleases the king, but can have his life ruined with a raised eyebrow, and have his family ruined by a frown. How better, if you're Andre Le Notre, to flatter the Sun King than by having all paths radiate from his royal personage? (Thanks for that tidbit, btw, I didn't know that!) It's consistent with all the rest of the sun imagery that place is so lousy with.

Hm... I think I've just seriously reacted to a dry joke. C'est la vie. I'm too tired for subtlety. Speaking of layout, however, and things French, I was marveling this afternoon how easy it was making boeuf bourguignon for company tonight. :) I love me a good kitchen layout!

Thanks, Pllog. I just stepped in this thread to look, and it just surprised me. I don't know all the politics here, but I am learning pretty quickly.

Some folks are more sensitive than others. I am attune to sensitivities as, I give advice for a living. It seldom requires brutal honesty, but it does on occasion.

Versailles is the essence of Baroque -- overdone and classically so. Love or hate the style, that's the wonderfulness of it. I doubt Louis XIV ever thought about who was cleaning the mirrors and since it was only light from 10 in the morning to 4 in the afternoon for half the year he probably never saw the dirt.

The French have a great term "jolie laide." The transliteration would be so ugly it's pretty and while it's normally applied to people, it certainly works for some kitchens we've seen.

Taste, however, is quite a different topic. Am I the only one who remembers the minimalist kitchen in Berlin with the concrete walls and the hate storm that engendered?

Mtnrdredux- LOL! Addams family, right? :)

Now I am really glad I never posted the final pictures of my new, and to me, beautiful kitchen.

Well, I think the thing that bugged me about that kitchen is that it isn't *fully *committed to the Baroque. The Sun King never would have tolerated the complete lack of attention to the switchplates and receptacles. The ivory plastic not-worked-into-the-design-utility, smacked me right in the face. That is just one of the details I see that falls short, so it nods toward something but doesn't really embrace it.

If you are going to do baroque or a kitchen that is ornamentation-on-crack, you might as well commit fully to it.

Beagles, I think you are going to be committing fully to your own baroque vision and that is why I am looking forward to seeing it.

The outlets are unacceptable, I agree. My electrician nearly quit over the outlet debacle in my kitchen (no uppers= no plugmold, code = outlets had to be above counter... 3 weeks later, solution reached, outlets hidden inside side panels of fridge w/ matched wood piece attached over top w/ magnets creating seamless look)

Let's just hope I can keep my mirrored refrigerator and appliance cabinets clean enough that no one can leave me dust messages!

Totally off topic, and too serious for this playful and fun thread, I know, but all of the mirrors in the Galerie des Glaces have been restored in the past five years -- it may not be to anyone's taste anymore; but it is stunningly restored. The Petit Trianon and Marie Antoinette's Hamlet and gardens have also all been restored. Well worth a visit, especially after watching Sophia Copola's Marie Antoinette. It may still make you want a revolution....

I think the perfect example of going too far over the top is the castle for the mad King of Bavaria, Ludwig II. His castle was styled on Versailles only trying to be grander and more impressive and done by a crazy rich guy. You can see how his attempt at one-upmanship went awry through the link below. He died when his advanced syphilis caused him to walk into his lake and drown.
Its exterior is the castle that Disneyworld was styled after.

BTW - I did mention that honesty is kinder sometimes, but had not used the word "brutal". That can be saved for when someone is looking to hook up with Charlie Sheen....

Here is a link that might be useful: Neuschwanstein

I do have to say, the sitting room in the Le Petit Trianon is one of my favorite rooms of all time and heavily influenced my molding decisions throughout the house. Unfortunately, these typed of carved onlays in wood are near impossible to find so you either have to have a billion dollars or go for "styrofoam" (fypon). I wasn't up for fypon so I had to do a toned down version, which I hope sort of captures a similar feel.... I may add more appliques as time goes on.
{{!gwi}}

There have been discussions regarding the use of Fypon urethane and other materials as opposed to the "real thing" and some architects, architectural historians, etc. question of the entire concept of what "the real thing" is, when it comes to building materials.

The Greeks carved in stone to replicate elements of earlier wood structures. (The triglyphs representing wooden beams, the guttae-nails) Later classicists then used cast stone, stucco, plaster, wood and composites to create things mimicking stone building elements of the Greeks. So, a number of them reached the conclusion that using a modern material to replicate an earlier one is a natural progression and should not be frowned upon, necessarily.

Lavender, yes, indeed!

LOL dianalo on brutal honesty.

It is hard to find something too over the top for me, but that may be it.

Beagles - that is the color blue I am using in my bedroom. What a beautiful room. I am using it with pink, however. I know that may not set well with a blue purist.

I can find wood onlays here, but my electrician is still stumped over LED lighting for my cabinets. I am having to teach him.

I will have to cover my electrical outlets with matching tile, which I have been fortunate to find.

I live in a very tiny town that is stuck in the past. There is good and bad in that. I love the people and the attitudes here, but we are lacking in many modern conveniences. The trade off is definitely worth it.

palimpsest interesting perspective and not one I had heard.The urethane fypon just came across as fake to me, sort of like a laminate version of a wood floor. While I can see the merit and need for such materials, I've always thought that when something tries to look like something else, you're better off buying the something it's trying to look like (convoluted enough sentence for you?) But, I suppose everything is derivative of something else so maybe that's wrong. I think what initially turned me off about fypon was when I saw them selling the urethane beams that were mimicking real architectural beams and even had fake wood grains and that just somehow screamed wrong and like the classic example of McMansion chic. But, I could rethink my perspective...

I found some wood onlays, but I was not able to find the stuff I would have needed to do a room like the one above (at least not for any reasonable cost). For now, we did the picture frame paneling throughout the house and we may add on more details later.

WhiteRiverSooner I think pink and blue can be a good combination, I'm not opposed :) We have no pink in our house now but my bedroom growing up was pink and blue...

Wow, well I still see some of those "over the top" touches in current kitchens in the gallery, and I can appreciate them. I guess the comments were mean as a cautionary gesture. Personally I wouldnt fault anyone for wanting to have trim like that or even a little bit of antique finish on their cabs. Go for it. I guess I better not post picks of my clarissa pottery barn chandelier over my kitchen table, its a little over the top but I like it anyway.

Re touring Versailles: My husband and I took my Mom when she was in her early 80s, and the early days of her lung disease. She just couldn't do all the steps, so I insisted on a wheelchair. Guess what? A wheelchair user gets to take alternate routes for parts of the tour and gets her own private tour and tour guide for those alternate routes. A special bonus is that the guy pushing the wheelchair loves doing his tour and speaks better English that the official guides. Such a deal.

Polyanna, there are plenty of us here who do over the top. Go ahead and post your pictures!!

I'm with Beagles on the foam stuff. It never feels right to me. Like it has the wrong resonance. There are other "fakes" that are fine by me, however. How about cast plaster? Or sculpted gesso? There are even some MDF type things that are made out of a wood slurry with resin--the ones that don't have that smooth machined feel--that aren't bad. Plaster is a lot more expensive. The foam stuff isn't brittle or fragile and is lightweight to ship. Gesso is especially brittle and doesn't like shipping. But they do have heft. :)

Actually, what would be really impressive is if someone figured out how to make these out of something like polymer clay. Not friable (though, therefore, less easily manipulated), but durable and very modern.

Mostly you like it. The remaining problem is the manufacturer to be completed for you. Style which can also known as Tuscan kitchens despite slightly doped

Here is a link that might be useful: tu bep

Just getting back to the kitchen that was posted for a minute, did anyone notice that the crown molding above the left upper cabinet doesn't seem to match the rest of the crown molding? Is it just an optical illusion or does it look more like a cove molding than the rest?

You are right, it is not the same moulding.

I knew there was something wrong with that molding, but couldn't put my finger on it. You are right.

suzannesl - what a great treat. You just never know when something special like that might happen. I would love to take the backroom tour.

Beagles, that wood applique is about $8/inch on sale. I am thinking about using it on my little bathroom fireplace. I can't imagine paying for a whole roomful.

As plllog mentioned, gesso or plaster moldings can be applied to wood -- the technique was used on 18th century furniture frequently. There's a company in Chicago that produces them. The issue is maintenance -- our modern heating systems aren't kind to plaster on wood applique.

The Petit Trianon is quite another pot of soup from the Hall of Mirrors, of course. It's the height of the Louis XVI neoclassical style, two centuries later and what made the 18th century the start of "interior decoration" as we more or less know it. What amazes me about that period is that it sometimes took two generations of a family to produce some of those rooms and, whether or not you love the style, the artistry is beyond.

And everything matched. That was the deal.

I mentioned above a house in our neighborhood that is similar to the one the OP posted - can't imagine the dust it collects. Didn't realize it until I saw the listing today, but the kitchen has a large (dark brown) island with seating and a peninsula with seating. Lotta bar stools.

{{!gwi}}

I think it just needs a little something to dress up the mantel hood shelf.

Oh no, marcolo, it needs something a tad more secular, to suit the market oligarchy, and with an appropos message, like:

OMG I have never seen a gargoyle biting the head off a chicken before. ;D I sorta want one. ;)

(please notice the winky smilie and know that I'm being sarcastic!)

I'm just surprised that no one has mentioned my most vivid memory of the Versailles tour.

the stench.

yep. those back hallways and stairways SMELLED LIKE PEE. OLD pee. I think someone mentioned it and we were told that they had not planned appropriately for that many people and the men would often use the back halls and stairs to relieve themselves.

I guess not enough chamber pots?

;-P """""

I dunno, Allison... I think the one with the chicken is very kitchen appropriate. I've seen "gothic" kitchens that had the pointy arches and cathedral details, and the ones that trend more '90's goth, than true Gothic, but they hold nothing to the one I'm imagining! Kind of indoor/outdoor with sliding glass walls and trestle tables in and out, grey stone walls, arrow slits, er, um, long, slender, high windows, rough hewn, smoke darkened open shelves, Massive walk-in cooler, cast iron cooking podium in, firepit with spit and woodfired beehives out, and hand forged strap hinges everywhere. And beasty gargoyles doing dining appropriate tasks, perched inside and out.

I don't usually go for theme, but given the appropriate site and budget, I'd do that one!

Wow... talk about a hijacked thread!