I am pretty new here too but everyone has been very helpful! Your home is beautiful and the kitchen layout looks great. Very envious of two dishwashers and two refrigerators.

The only changes that I can see would be to maybe rethink the dishwasher by the sink at the window, you have the trash drawer between the sink and dishwasher, for me I would want it right next to the sink so I am not dripping water on the floor or all over the counter. The only other thing would maybe be to swap the fridge on the stairwell wall to the other end of that wall, so the two fridges are not right next to each other? Not that that is bad but it might make it easier for prep time by being able to get to the fridge from the other side of the kitchen? Can't wait to see your beautiful kitchen!

A good layout it is.

Your description of the setting is good too. It helps me picture flow and sight lines.

If you diversify your DW and fridge types, you get "more". One dishdrawer type, one tall tub. One passive cooling (no freezer burn, no evaporation), and one auto defrosting.

If for any reason you want to contain costs, consider a 24" fridge. They hold a lot! Cu.Ft. dimensions are just one factor determining how much a fridge truly holds when you need to pack things in. The number of shelves is a big factor too. Summit CP171 (passive cooling), GE, Fagor, LG, Blomberg (passive cooling), Liebherr, etc.

9+DW+TR18 next to the range can be turned into DW + a set of drawers (one of which can be deep enough to hold trash containers, several types). The drawers can take up less width than the 27" of the (9+18) and this moves the range and hood out of the sight line of the central hall. In any case, two small thingies (9", 18") are not as good as one larger one. I have trash in deep top drawers, and there is no "contagion" or spread of smells. I remove organic trash every second day. There was a thread about six months ago about the wasted space in the average under-sink cabinet, and the ugliness of all those chemicals that we often store there (to be contained, reduced and minimized). What is underneath the sink?

Sinks covering a total 57" = sounds like a lot to me. It may be more than overkill. OTOH, I think two fridges and two DW's are a good idea. And two sinks too. The sinks don't need to be that size total because there are two of them.

I would move the island prep sink to the left, so you have landing space on either side of it. That end of the island (where the prep sink is currently) would be a very good place to put groceries going into the fridges and/or to put items coming out of the fridges. You can then start prepping right there. (You do have some space behind the sink,... probably 19 inches+- when you factor in the counter lip and the faucet, but I think the items make sense to be next to the sink.)

FYI - my 2 sinks are 36"w and 19.5"w. I would NOT make the smaller sink any smaller, especially if I had a DW next to it. The size of my prep sink makes it much more versatile and useful, even just for two of us.

I echo the suggestion to move the DW next to the main sink.

Are you intending to store dishes, glasses and silverware to the right of the main sink? If so, then when you or your kids set the table for dinner (I'm assuming the "eating area" will be your primary dining area and not the dining room), they will have to cross through the cooking zone. With only a 40" aisle (NKBA recommends 42" for 1-cook kitchen, 48" for 2-cook kitchen), that could be a problem. I understand - or think I understand - the reason why you placed the range where you did but wanted to let you know a potential downside of its placement.

I know it's probably hard to figure out where you main traffic patterns will be but try to think this out as much as possible. Which path will kids take when they dart in from deck, great room or playroom to get to the fridge? Through the cooking zone? Will you be okay with that or will it be a nuisance?

Is there a reason why you aren't placing the 2 DWs and the 2 fridges together? Is one DW intended for prep items and the other for dinner items? If not, then as lynn85 pointed out, there will be lots of dripping going on as you transfer items from main sink to either of the 2 DWs. I'd find that annoying. Also, are you planning to purchase different depth fridges? That's what it looks like on your plan.

Nice inspiration photo!

I had the sink a cabinet away from the dishwasher in my old kitchen. Don't do it! It's really an awful set up. It was that way, I think, because the PO, who built the place, added it when he got married and put it in an easier cabinet to remove. It's really bad! It gets to feel like a hike from the sink just to put in each dish. Also, if these are regular DWs with drop down doors, make sure they don't run into each other when open. The people with two dishwashers here agree that it's important to be able to easily reach both from the same cleaning point so that if one fills up you can easily put something in the other.

What I really see in your plan, however, is a lack of storage space in the kitchen area. I get the two sinks, two dishwashers, two fridges, but you've put them into a space which usually has one of each, so you've lost a lot of storage space from what is merely a basic sized kitchen. You can add dish storage to the eating area and maybe make the cabinet open to the sitting room side, and maybe even try the one DW for clean one for dirty thing (though that still requires putting some things away as the other one gets run). The more dishes that are stored outside the kitchen proper, the more storage you'll have for cooking paraphernalia and food.

There are large families which function fine with one of each of your doubles. Since you anticipate needing the doubles, I think you need to think through what other things those doubles are going to require. More refrigerated food means more pots, more dishes, more containers, more utensils, not just for washing, but for prepping/cooking and putting away. It also implies more staples, and other non-refrigerated foodstuffs, more paper goods, more towels, more soap, etc.

Do you have, or can you add, a walk-in pantry somewhere? Or bulk storage in the garage? Perhaps even relocate the second fridge to the garage?

What about freezer space? Freezers really help for feeding large families. You can make large batches of things and freeze them to have easily made meals for when things are just too hectic to cook.

The basic configuration that you show doesn't look bad except for the one DW location away from the sink. You even have the second fridge in a fairly convenient place. I just think you need to really consider your storage needs and make sure you have them all covered for your growing family.

Hi everyone - thanks a ton for the great feedback. I've never posted on an online forum before, and I'm just amazed at the engagement and sense of community. Couple notes on our thinking that might illuminate shed some light on our thinking, and potential flaws in our thinking.

On the stove placement, I definitely get the sense that for this kitchen layout it's more common to have the stove on the far wall, though until today I hadn't realized why. I would bet it is the 'traffic pattern issue' that you point out, lisa_a. You're correct - we were planning on having dishes to the right of the main sink, but that is a bit of a haul to the eating area. Our thinking on this stove placement had three main components. First, a need to have an eye on small children who will be in the sitting area at bottom left, having the stove on the right side of the kitchen seemed to make keeping an eye on them easier. Second, and similar, we hope to entertain quite a bit and we're trying to design the island as a gathering place. In this layout the seating is really at the left end and left bottom corner, which would mean that anyone cooking at the stove has their back to everyone for some or most of the time. Lastly, if we swap the stove location we're pretty sure that would end up forcing a fridge to the far left end of the rear wall (where the 27" cabinet and drawers are right now). We're probably overthinking it, but we worried that having a fridge there - which blocks the space from floor to ceiling - would have the effect of closing off the space a bit and blocking too much natural light from the sliders and windows beside them. That's our line of thinking, but this is our first house and our previous apartments didn't really give us a lot of experience with how this layout would actually feel. Very open to other ways of thinking on it.

Separately, the DW issue is a great point and we will definitely swap the trash/dishwasher placement in the final version. (Since we see the back right corner as the dumping ground for dirty dishes our preference would be to have the trash to the right of the sink and the DW to the left, but I think that would push the sink too far off center of the window? ? ?)

Davidro1 - could you clarify what you mean about the change you proposed taking the hood out of the sightline of the central hall? It would seem like your proposal would change the configuration of the lower cabinets to the right of the stove, but leave the stove placement intact. I must be misunderstanding what you're suggesting.

Lolauren - how far down would you move the prep sink? I don't have a lot of experience with this stuff and it seems like it would feel out of place if it were in one of the two middle slots. Would you put it in one of those, or move it to the far end of the island? (BTW - we had la similar thought, but for a different reason: the design is intended to use the island as the main prep area so we can keep an eye on the kids in the sitting room while getting meals ready. To do so you'd need to be towards the left end of the island. . .)

Lisa_a - on the DW's, I think it really came down to an issue of space. We do see the main (rear) sink as the primary cleaning area, but since the sinks would need to be adjacent to the sink on the left and right we figured that would push the sink too far off-center with the window (because of how far the lazy susan extends from the right wall). Per the earlier suggestion to move the prep sink left on the island, I'm now thinking that we'll at least move the dishwasher to the far right of the island. This will shorten the trip from the main sink, though it won't eliminate the dripping issue completely. It'll also mean the two DW's would overlap when open, but I think I can live with that by filling one and then filling the other... (One note - our hope is that the extra DW will be primarily used when entertaining or on unusually messy days. The DW on the rear wall will likely be the 'primary' DW�) Also - yes - right now we're stuck with two different fridges b/c in my hasted to get a great deal (65% off) I rushed out and bought a non-counterdepth fridge. I'm now thinking that two counterdepth fridges would be preferable, so I may try to sell the one I bought, but we'll see.

Plllog - thanks for the thoughts on the storage space. We've been living in tiny apartments for so many years that this layout looked like heaven to us. With our hopes for a big family I definitely see your point and will give it a bit more thought. (We will have an option for storage in the basement/garage, though I wouldn't want to have one of the fridges down there. Beyond prepping/storing a lot of meals for the little one at the beginning of each week, we eat a lot of fresh fruits/veggies and my experience is that when they're out of sight they're out of mind. I think we'd waste a lot of produce if it was down in the basement.)

One random question - does anyone know how much variance you need b/t the size of a sink base and the size of the corresponding undermount sink? Ie: if we go with a 21" sink base, what's the biggest undermount bowl we can fit?

Thanks everyone - I'm off to experiment with a new layout that puts the stove on the right hand wall. . .

I was thinking the stove would be better on the far right wall w/ fridge at end of sink run - closer to table (filling glasses w/milk, cereal, juice, condiments). OTOH, I can see wanting it where you can keep an eyeball on the kids!

will the fridges include a freezer side/bottom?

is there the possibility of a shallow pantry shelving area set into a wall on the way to the laundry/bathroom area? shallow shelves can hold a lot of stuff.

some people don't like the stove/hood to be seen from the entrance area - others don't mind it.

I love what you've thought of so far --- just a couple of thoughts:

1st -- have you seen the full fridge/full freezer? Because your needs are coming from having/planning a large family, I think the full freezer, giving you 1/2 dedicated freezer space vs. 1/3 or less, would be optimal -- I agree that making, say, 4 lasagnas instead of 2 but takes a good freezer space to store them. Either when your kids are very young and the fatigue factor is there by meal time, or when they are older and you're running 15 different directions schlepping them to practices or meetings, the ability to freeze meals will be important. There's a link at the bottom of this post to a thread showing a few people's full freezer/full fridge (rhome was one, I think).

2nd -- As much as I think the wine fridge/half wall is a unique architectural feature, I think I'd rather have the ability to expand a dining room table to accommodate your family plus extended family, friends, etc. Without the half wall you have the ability to pop several leaves in a dining room table (see also the craigslist mahogany midcentury tables for a dime thread) the adjoining room you have the space to have a lot of people without impeding traffic to other rooms. With that wall there you'll be able to fit your own family but that's about it. Removing the half wall also has the added benefit of not obstructing your view of the play room while the kids are little. Looking at it again, I'm wondering why they put that barstool area there, not sure who would opt to sit with their back to the living room but not being close enough to engage with anyone in the kitchen --- seems the seating you have at the island is a lot better plan.

3rd, and this is kind of a goofy idea -- but re: the issue of keeping an eye on kids while you're cooking -- there was a thread last week asking what the next backsplash would be, and in it was a cool mirrored subway tile -- I'm thinking "now that would actually be pretty useful here" -- so FWIW, there's one option to keep the kids in view while you're turned toward the stove.

Here is a link that might be useful: Full Freezer Full Fridge Thread

One thing I just thought of (not sure if someone has already posted on it) would be to have a large full fridge only and the other be a full size freezer? For me I have a full freezer and love it, I can get so much more in it.

To explain my second sentence about moving the range and hood out of the sight line of the central hall.

In the layout shown above, 27" is currently occupied by the two components that are 9" and 18" wide. Assume for a moment that the sink stays, and the lazy susan stays. Assume for a moment that the two components, 9" and 18" wide, get replaced by a single component (e.g. drawers). Then, this statement may be clearer to you now: A size smaller than this total (27") will take up less width than the current two-components, and thereby cause the entire cook zone (hood too) to get moved to the right. This also causes the left hand side cabinet to increase by the same number of inches, if your cabinet run remains the same overall length. When you reduce dimensions in one component it increases dimensions in another component, if the total has to remain the same.

You get more useable space if you have large components instead of two smaller ones. In addition to the space, the ergonomics are better not worse. People here in this forum have discussed this, earlier this year.

On the left hand side the cabinet run ends many many inches before the wall ends. You could cover more wall and have more counter and more storage.

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it is good to have an all-fridge and an all-freezer, too.

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A small sink of the size you have is good. A big sink can be smaller than shown since you have so much sink volume already available in the small one. If so, the loss of total sink volume is a minor thing. But the gain of space in the other cabinets might be significant. I quote plllog: "What I really see in your plan, however, is a lack of storage space in the kitchen area" =Hth.

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An oval table is the right shape.

The island could be longer. Since the island can be seen from almost all angles anyway, there is no compelling reason to end it arbitrarily at the perceived-on-a-layout line that the long hall wall makes, and exactly on that line, to the inch.

Now, you might ask how much room is needed behind the chair backs around the oval table. I won't put a specific number on it here because it might then cause a lot of buzz about how much is enough, recommended, necessary, etc. Currently that space is shown as 12' by 15'. Twelve feet is too much. Even if you put a hutch or other furniture on the far wall. In my house I have less than twelve feet, and I have furniture on the far wall. And, nobody has ever had a problem passing others, during fancy meals. Besides, the people serving the plates don't need to pass each other as if they each demanded an aisle equivalent of passing space. And, in your case, you have the two main aisles too, which I don't have in my house. So, your house is far far more open than mine. I think an oval DR table will appear dwarfed and floating in a 12' by 15' space, and that you really should do a layout and 3-d simulation that extends the island overhang.

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I think that with 2 DW's you will need less storage not more. Or the same not more. With 2 DW's, one is holding stuff while the other one is empty or being emptied. You can get that advantage with two dishdrawers because they each operate independently. Please note that today all DW's take plates that are not rinsed previously so there is no need to have an immense total sink volume for dirty stuff that is "on its way to the DW".

I think that with 2 fridges you might not need more pots. How you manage meal leftovers is up to you. I never let more than one meal's leftovers get stored. It's a self imposed rule. I have two fridges. I have fewer pots in 2010 and 2011 than I have had in the last 30 years. I got an induction cooktop.

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an undermount sink "can" fit inside any base cabinet because you can groove out some of the cabinet sides to leave space for the sink rim. A sink can also straddle two base cabinets because you can groove out the sides to give space for the sink body. The latter exercise might make some people want to then write a lot about the wood of the cabinet sides. (How much wood, what type, how much id left over after the cut, will this be"enough", would one want to reinforce,,,,....) People don't do this, in this forum. But, within X period of time they might start writing about it and thereby encourage someone to do it and post their final result. I cut two adjacent cabinet sides in order to let my cooktop straddle two cabinets. Nobody whined or opined anything negative. Not the countertop fabricator and installer (they heard about it and saw it). Not GW kitchen forum participants. The same notch/cut/groove/cut idea can be applied to make room for a sink. Yes you may add a piece of steel to reinforce things too... more later if and when.

When I stand at my cooktop I can open either drawer underneath while remaining close to the cooktop because each drawer occupies half of the space under the cooktop. This is great for a one-person cooking team, and a bit awkward for a two-person cooking team. But consider this: the big advantage of trash pullouts when they were invented was that they were on the side when you stood at the sink, instead of forcing you to step aside and to Open A Cabinet Door. HOWEVER now that undercounter drawers are proven to be ergonomically better than doors, one may consider a sink straddling two cabinets that contain all-drawers. Hint hint. This is new thinking.

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by moving the cook zone over several inches you will have to rework the wall shelves and cabinets. Do not symmetricize the sink under the window. Let the window be mostly to shine light on a countertop.

Hi and welcome.

I don't have an eye for layouts, but I just wanted to chime in with my experience. We built a house 3 years ago (since sold & we're gutting another!) and also have a very young family (currently 3 under 5). Anyway, we put a playroom off the kitchen where a dining room might otherwise be. We used half walls with shelves for separation. My only point is this: I absolutely loved this set up. I bet you will too. I attached a photo. Playroom is behind island.

Good luck on your build & congrats on finding this forum early in the process. You'll be amazed at the wisdom & guidance the kind folks on here can offer!

Good luck,
Katie

A wider than normal dining room could be nice if you have either an infant swing or a playpen in the corner.

"Lolauren - how far down would you move the prep sink? I don't have a lot of experience with this stuff and it seems like it would feel out of place if it were in one of the two middle slots. Would you put it in one of those, or move it to the far end of the island? (BTW - we had la similar thought, but for a different reason: the design is intended to use the island as the main prep area so we can keep an eye on the kids in the sitting room while getting meals ready. To do so you'd need to be towards the left end of the island. . .) "

Just switch the DW and sink locations. :) Easy.

The only problem is make sure the DW isn't opening into something important on the other side... (like the other DW, if you happen to move it over...)

Also, I don't think a sink in the middle/interior of an island will look weird..... :) People do it all the time.

RE: watching the playroom, I envision grabbing things from the fridge and placing them on the end of that island..... then you move to the sink and rinse whatever you need... from there you can move things to the other end of the island if needed. I think moving the sink over would help you to better be able to watch the playroom.... right?