Answers to questions about layout - need more input!

12 years ago

Thanks to all of you who responded so quickly! Here are some answers to your questions:

1. Flipping the range & sink walls - Probably a good idea, especially since the range could then be vented on an exterior wall. The other location creates a big (expensive) hassle and requires changes on the 2nd floor. Florantha, as you noted there are ways to make the sink wall attractive.

2. Traffic pattern - actually there won't be much traffic through the mudroom door through the kitchen as we live in an old "sidewalk" community where everyone (including us, even though we have a carport) parks on the street & enters through the front door. I envision the grocery unloading through this door, letting dog out, access to grill, but no crowds through here.

3. Symmetry & Axis - Ah, here's the rub. The designer & architect have designed the layout so that the island & range are on axis with the french doors in the new sunroom. Beautiful. This creates a problem, however, with the distance between the corner of the island & the wall between bkfst & sunroom, as bmorepanic notes. This will definitely be where the traffic flows and tempts me to turn the island so that it faces the sunroom. However, it then cannot be on axis with doors without being too close to the current sink wall. I AM GOING BONKERS!!! I want it to be beautiful AND function!!

4. aisle widths, etc. - Buehl, thank you for your detailed comments! Yes, the aisle between island & current sink wall is 42, between island & range is 44.5. I THINK that is cabinet to cabinet, but need to confirm. Sink wall is 7.5' long, range/fridge wall is 11'.

5. Zone issues - I'm currently planning on an additional trash located under prep sink to service the cooking/prep zone so that should solve some problems. Also was envisioning prep taking place to left of prep sink (a little small - 24"), as you noted Buehl and, when necessary, to right of prep sink on long counter. If the main sink & range flip flop, then perhaps moving prep sink to other end of island closer to sunroom makes sense. Yes, Buehl, if the range moves, then there will be about 18" of landing space on either side vs. about 22" where it is.

6. Island orientation - Bmorepanic, you are right! I am worried - but can you figure out how to keep the island on axis and have ample space for circulation? I need the size for storage and I really want seating there.

7. Breakfast room - the built-ins there are cabinetry for storage and desk area that can be closed off by retractable doors, so don't really want to add beverage area there. WIll store liquor here and set up bar at breakfast room table when entertaining.

8. Moving fridge to other end of range wall - certainly possible, but again, messes up the symmetry/axis. I sort of like it where it is because it can be easily access from bkfst area for drinks without getting into cook/prep/clean zone.

Sorry for so much detail - I am TKO!! I want it all - on axis, enough room for circulation behind stools at island, functional and gorgeous. Is that too much to ask?

Thanks again in advance!!! I will try to post elevations with clearer measurements once homework, dinner, etc. are done. Y'all are great!

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Comments (5)

eastbaymom
12 years ago
last modified: 8 years ago
Here's a link to the old thread...

Here is a link that might be useful: includes image of floorplan
mebry
Original Author
12 years ago
last modified: 8 years ago
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If the windows cannot change and it's important to you that the sink be centered and under the middle window, then the DW will not fit on the other side. Wanting it centered is not a bad thing, it's just something that means more to some than others. We all have things that are important and are worth some compromises. FWIW, my DH was very insistent our main/cleanup sink be centered in front of our bay window...and I think I agree with him, although if it meant sacrificing function I may not have. In your case, if you put a prep sink & a second trash in the island, I think it can be an acceptable compromise since you have wide aisles. Yes, there is a "danger" of backing into an open DW when working at the island, but with... wide aisles (important here) the fact that the cooktop is away from the DW (so you aren't moving toward the DW when going to the cooktop) it looks like you have approx 36" b/w the open DW and the edge of a prep sink (if the prep sink is in the left 18" space on the islands), leaving you with enough room to work at the island w/o the DW getting in the way ...I don't think it will be that much of an issue. Since most trash & recycling occur while prepping & cooking, I would be sure to make the trash in the island a double-bin pullout. If you don't recycle much or don't mind walking the recyclables over to the other side of the kitchen, you might be able to get away with a single trash bin in the island, but I don't recommend it. The one by the cleanup sink could be a 12" or 15" single-bin trash-only pullout, but then it would affect the "centering" of the sink under the window! BTW...it helps if draw in the open door...most DW doors are 27" tall, so draw in a 27"tall x 24"wide rectangle to show where it opens into the aisle...that will tell you how much space there is b/w the open door and the island for walking past the open DW as well as how much room b/w the door and the prep sink in the island. (Line the "bottom" of the DW door with the edge of the DW square, not the countertop edge b/c the DW door opens from the DW, not the counter.) Our DW opens partially into a 47" aisle and there's plenty of room to walk by it. It's partially b/w the end of the peninsula & counter on the other side and we've never had a "roadblock" when the DW was open. So, go and draw in the open DW door and, while you're at it, do the same for the open refrigerator, MW drawer, ovens, and trash pullouts. Yes, the MW could face the cooktop. Since it's a cooktop and not a range, there won't be an open oven door to worry about being in conflict w/an open MW drawer. My MW drawer is the previous model (i.e., not one of the new, bigger ones) and opens approx 16" past the countertop. So it would stick out 16" into the aisle. If the aisle is 48" wide (or even 45" accounting for counter overhang on both sides), that leaves you with a 29" (45" - 16") walkway b/w the open MW and the cooktop...plenty of room to walk by. And, since MWs aren't open for very long, I don't think the fact that it's open while someone is working at the cooktop will pose a problem either. I do like the crown around the bottom of the hood.
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I understand your thinking, but it looked to me like the side opposite the range has upper and lower cabinets -- not open to another room. Did I not read that right? Also, if you have a pool and a lot of outdoor activity in the back, will you have drippers come across the kitchen to get something out of the fridge? Do you have another way for the swimmers to get a drink or a snack? My fridge is in a similar location, but offset from the end of the island. We left it there with the remodel, but we put fridge drawers in the breakfast room and greatly freed up the traffic across the room to the fridge. I kow the kids could walk onthe other side, but they always seem to go where the people already are. LOL Anyway, a beverage fridge on that opposite side or even in your sunroom might be nice -- if you have the room for it. None of these ideas are bad or wrong -- this is just your chance to get the one that you like best, so you want to consider all the options and uses.
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mebry
Original Author
12 years ago
last modified: 8 years ago
Thanks eastbaymom, for providing the link. I'm not quite up to speed on this yet!
eastbaymom
12 years ago
last modified: 8 years ago
My personal instinct is to keep the stove on the right, sink on top, and narrow the short side of the island. By narrowing the island, you would create a few more inches of crossing space at the pinch point between the kitchen and the sunroom.

You could perhaps add one seat on the left side of the island, and lose one seat on the long (bottom) side, to ease traffic flow.

Visually, it might make a difference to have real stools at the island, rather than chairs with backs. Then the stools could tuck all the way under the island when not in use, and would allow the space at the pinch point to appear more open.
Buehl
12 years ago
last modified: 8 years ago
First......What are the full dimensions of your space? All the walls, windows, doorways, etc.
1. Very good reasons for switching.
2. Traffic...OK
3. Architects...yes, they're very good at designing structural elements and adding "interest", but when it comes to functionality, they pretty much get an F. The majority of architects are poor Kitchen Designers. A better idea is to get the general structural setup of the space and then design a very functional kitchen and tweak the architectural items to fit the layout. If you rarely used your kitchen (and yes, there are some people who have kitchens for "show" only), I would say go with what looks "nice" over functionality if that's what you want. But, you do use your kitchen, so I think functionality should be considered. For me, functionality usually trumps form. YMMV
  
  "island & range are on axis with the french doors"...is anyone going to notice this one way or the other? If it is noticeable, will it look too symmetrical and/or contrived? Sometimes this type of thing can actually look "too much" and stops being a nice feature and becomes more "show" or "commercial" looking.
Aisle widths...if the measurements are cabinet-to-cabinet, then your aisles are actually 3" narrower than you think. Counter edges usually extend approx 1.5" beyond cabinets (to direct spills away from cabinets & doors to protect finishes). This means a 42" aisle is really 39" and 44.5" is really 41.5". With all the traffic you will probably have when you have get togethers, I highly recommend a minimum of 42" and, possibly, 48" aisles.
Zone issues...

Trash & Recycle...You need the larger trash bin and the recycle bin in the Prep & Cooking Zones more than you need them in the Cleanup Zone. Also, if the small trash bin is under the prep sink, every time someone needs to use it...prepping or cooking...the person at the sink will need to move out of the way. If it were me, I'd put the double-bin trash/recycle pullout in the Prep Zone and either put in a 12" single-bin trash pullout or a trash can under the sink in the Cleanup Zone...assuming the double-bin pullout is not also easily accessed from the Cleanup Zone (ideal setup).

Cooking Zone/Range work & landing space if switch w/sink...do you need those shallow walls that flank both the current sink location and the entrance to the new sitting room? If not, you would gain approx 4.5" per wall that could be used for work & landing space. 18" is a little small, especially since both sides are 18" (i.e., there isn't one side w/more to make up for the lack of space on the other side). I suspect they're "architectural interest" items, at least the one b/w the DW & stair area. (This also applies to item #6.)
Island orientation...have you also considered turning the island 90o clockwise so the seats back into the new Sitting Room? That might enable you to leave the range, refrigerator, etc. where they all are now. If you can provide the dimensions of the space, I could play with your layout to see how it would work... (Dimensions: overall length & width of the room, doorway/opening/window widths, widths of each section of wall space)

If you can also reduce the width of those walls flanking the new Sitting Room, you add inches for the aisle b/w the island and walls.
No comments right now.
Moving refrigerator...aesthetic as well as function...unless you have a true blank slate and can make any changes you want, you will have to compromise on some things. In this case, ask yourself when is the refrigerator used the most and how can you mitigate the impact of the move (compromise). For example, it was mentioned that you could have a beverage refrigerator for drinks and condiments that is close to the Breakfast area. Generally, drinks and condiments aren't used for cooking but are used for meals and usually all that's needed from a Breakfast area is drinks & condiments! So, perhaps you could make the compromise on the refrigerator location functionally by putting it closer to the island workspace and have a beverage refrigerator for snackers. As to the "symmetry", I actually think moving the refrigerator is better b/c it balances the rather long wall on the Breakfast area end. You have a lot of partial walls cutting up the kitchen space, so work with those walls and use the refrigerator to at least "balance" them.

Answers to questions about layout - need more input!

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Answers to questions about layout - need more input!

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