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toddimt

2 cabinets of smaller drawers or 1cabinet of larger drawers?

toddimt
12 years ago

I am down to the last of my minute details of my kitchen cabinets. It has been an exhaustive roller coaster ride for like 2 years. Man have things changed and evolved.

My peninsula currently has two 22" wide Cabinets with 3 drawers each.

I could increase isle space and make a single 42" wide base cabinet with 3 drawers. Thus, 3 larger drawers vs. 6 smaller drawers. I have no clue what I would be putting in these drawers anyway. My kitchen is gutted and all of the stuff is all boxed away.

I'm sure people can and will weigh in on both sides but trying to see why one might be better. For those that have wide drawers, what do you put in them?

Comments (39)

  • plllog
    12 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    I always prefer a wider drawer to a narrower one. You can always divide a drawer, but you can never increase it. You can fit a lot more if you can put little things between the big ones, and interleave handles and all, than if you have just so much space and have to leave all the corners empty. You'll get back more than the 2" you're losing to the aisles by not having the cabinetry in between the drawers and by getting to use those corners.

    If you're getting wide drawers, make sure the bottoms and glides are rated for weight.

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  • nbptmomto3
    12 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    I would say try to figure out what will go there before you decide. 42" is a wide drawer. Do you have your pots, pans, lids and bakeware already spoken for? Seems a perfect spot for that stuff. I bet the two 22" cabs will be more practical though.

  • toddimt
    Original Author
    12 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Below are some dollhouse views and a layout from Scherr's.

    As far as what is what cabinet wise, working clockwise starting from the outside edge of the peninsula:

    Peninsula:
    22" Wide 3 drawer cabinet
    22" Wide 3 Drawer cabinet
    24" Wide Cabinet opening on overhang side of the peninsula

    Sink Wall:
    23" wide 3 drawer cabinet
    Dishwasher
    36" Wide Sink Base.
    17" Wide Pullout Trash and Upper Drawer.
    36" Wide Blum Space Corner Cabinet (3 drawers)

    Rangewall:
    15" Wide cabinet with drawer/door attached to bottom drawer. (2 rollout Drawers inside)
    36" Rangetop Base Cabinet (double Drawers)
    26.25" wide 3 drawer base cabinet
    24" Wide MW Drawer Cabinet w/ drawer below.

    Tall Appliance Wall:
    36" Wide Integrated Fridge
    31" Wide DO Cabinet. )Small lower drawer below and vertical storage in cabinet above)
    35.5" Wide Pantry w/ Fisher Paykel Cool Drawer Below (Freezer/Fridge)Behind double doors, rollouts below and shelves up high.

  • michoumonster
    12 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    do you care if the drawer cabs are symmetric? you can do one 12" drawer cab and the other make a 30" so you can have large one for large items and one smaller one for knickknacks.

  • rhome410
    12 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Hadn't thought of michoumonster's approach when we were discussing this. I just didn't want you to take 3 inches out of one bank, and end up with one at 23" and one at 20". But a 30" and a 12-14" or a 28" with a 14-16" could be a good answer.

  • PRO
    Rachiele Custom Sinks
    12 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Look at all the space outside of the drawer that is wasted. The drawer thickness, the space between the outside of the drawer and the cabinet, etc. You will gain that space by going with one larger drawer instead of two smaller drawers.

  • toddimt
    Original Author
    12 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    For those of you who have large drawers that are 36"+ and are not the standard pot drawers, what do you have in them. Pics appreciated :).

    Seeing how they are used can aid with the decision.

  • bmorepanic
    12 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    That aisle there is going to be less than 36" by the time everything has panels, doors, and countertops with overhangs if I'm making the proper allowances. You might think about reducing the cabinet down to even 36", not including the panel.

    Your other options at 42" are changing to a pair of 21" drawers, or 18" and a 21" for a total of 39", or a 15" and a 24" also totaling 39". With a 15" cabinet, you could get a mixer lift with an interior only drawer at the bottom for its tools.

    I have two 36" 4 drawer cabinets (top shallow drawer is split into two) and neither one contains pots. I like them a lot. The one under the prep counter has a ton of prep tools in the top drawers, measuring cups, spoons, peelers, spoons, immersion blender, thermometers, biscuit cutters, kitchen scissors, small mixer attachment for the blender, wooden spoons, whisks, some forks and small spoons, wooden spoons, can opener, jar opener. The big drawers contain mixing bowls, big bread basket, service platters and containers stored on edge, 3 manual coffee pots - my chemex, french press, and one of those italian pots - well its right by the range. Coffee filters for those that need them. Sometimes also a tea kettle.

    The other is by the back door and one shallow drawer contains knives that aren't used daily plus some other sharp things like skewers. A shallow drawer full of baggies in assorted sizes, coffee filters and plastic wrap.
    A long drawer with an entire extra set of dishes, the salad spinner, tools for the bbq outside the door and some space for somethin'. The other long drawer is deeper and has most every other electric gismo I have - air popper, crock pot, portable induction burner, food vacuum sealer, food processor, etc and a cake plate? Hmmm... must do somethin with that!

    The toaster lives on the prep counter (explains the bread basket) and the electric coffee pot lives on the counter above the plastic wrap.

    Ok, yes, that is four pots. There must be a name for that.

  • blfenton
    12 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Back to your original post - do you have 42" or 44"? (22+22=44 and not 42). I would, as bmorepanic has suggested, check and recheck your measurements, INCLUDING counter overhang of 1"-1 1/2" and see what your aisle widths are and try to get about a 40-42" clear aisleway.

    In terms of drawer sizes, look at what you are missing and you don't seem to be missing much. Do you have a place for everything - cutlery, cooking utensils, pots/pans, tray, casserole dishes, linens, food wrap and sandwich bags, plastics, etc. I like the idea of the 30" and 12". I just think that they are very useful sizes.

  • angie_diy
    12 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Hmmm, we went with 2x20" drawer bases (and a matching 1x40" upper with two doors). It's not too late to change, and now you have me thinking...

  • desertsteph
    12 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    "you can do one 12" drawer cab and the other make a 30" "

    I thought of this also - then you have one of each. a smaller and a larger.

    how about using the larger for dishes? it's close to the dw. plates, bowls, saucers etc. if the smaller ones are deep enough you could use one for a cup drawer... depends of course on how many you have. or put the most used ones there and others up on a higher shelf for when you have lots of people and need them.

    do you have a kitchen tool drawer yet? a smaller one could be used for that. the kitchen scissors, pliers, screw driver, box cutter... or there on the end of peninsula the napkin drawer, place mat drawer...lots of options!

  • breezygirl
    12 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    I debated this same thing for my two banks of 39" drawers. I didn't like the thought of losing the extra three inches if I had split them smaller. I posted and got views both ways--some saying 39" is too big to open routinely, and some saying that they wouldn't give up their wide drawers for anything. In the end, I kept my 39" banks. They won't be installed for another few weeks so I can't tell you if I chose correctly. I'm sure I did. Your situ is a little different as your bank is even wider.

    One thought, if your cabs are framed, a 12" drawer has about 9" of usable interior space. That's pretty tiny in my book. And if the 12" stack is a 3-drawer, then those narrow drawers are deep also. I think you might lose stuff in there. I used to have a 12" shallow drawer in the old kitchen which I made work for tiny things, but only because it was shallow.

  • lolauren
    12 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    breezy -- my favorite drawers are all around 36" w...... 39" w. would be even better :) they are incredibly versatile. They hold pots, lids, tupperware, pans, colanders, etc. So roomy and easy to see everything. I'm confident you will be happy with your choice.

    OP -- my least favorite drawers are a 21" wide cabinet... drawer itself is 17"... they are so limited by comparison. I would suggest the larger combined drawer so you have at least one large bank in your kitchen...

  • pudgybaby
    12 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    I have one 48" drawer and 2 x 41.5" drawers. I put my baking stuff, roasting pans and casseroles in the 48". It is very heavy and I don't access the items in it all that often. It is a huge drawer. I like it and wouldn't change it. It's on the bottom right in the pic. I would think twice about one this size if you were storing things that you access frequently especially heavy things and especially if it was in a main walk-way, which yours isn't. Mine is in my main walkway but because we don't use it too often, it's not an issue.

    I put pots and pans in one of my 41.5" and bagged foods in the other (sheepishly admitting that we have a wide variety of chips at our house). The 41.5 inchers are on the left in the pic. This cabinet is my pantry, so pots and pans don't really belong, but my range is right behind it and it's very convenient. These drawers are a very nice size and I don't find them as cumbersome as the 48" drawer. We use these drawers a lot and I love, love, love them.

    Can you do like I did and make the bottom drawer full length and the next row with two drawers?

    Your kitchen is going to be so functional - I'm jealous of all of that storage!

    {{gwi:1696019}}

    Not a great pic, but here's the pot and pan drawer open:
    {{gwi:1696021}}

  • toddimt
    Original Author
    12 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Ok let me clarify things a little better.

    The cabinets are frameless. Sides are 3/4"

    The width wall to wall, parallel with the peninsula is 138 3/8".

    I originally has 23" wide base cabinets on the peninsula. The width from the wall to the end of the peninsula was 72 7/8" + 1.5" of overhang = 74 3/8". There also would be an end panel, which is not included in the cabinet run width above, but that is about 7/8" and that will leave an overhang of 1/2" on that side.

    The tall Fridge/DO/Pantry wall was originally done at 24" deep cabinets and now they need to be 25" deep. Add the door fronts and we are at 26".

    This would have left an aisle at 38".

    I was looking to increase it a little more without sacrificing too much cabinet loss or shrinking the peninsula too much that I could not fit 3 stools comfortably. Thus, I thought to shrink the 2 cabinet bases down to 22" each. That would have increased the aisle to 40".

    I then figured that if I had one larger drawer and it was for argument sake 42" wide, this would give me really more usable space then the two 22" base cabinets since I am removing the wasted space in the middle. The wasted space is approx 3" (I have a sample cabinet so I measured the wasted space) so even at 42" the usable space is more than two 22" drawers and the isle would then increase another 2" to 42" wide, if this additional isle width is necessary. Otherwise, I could work with the 44" space with a 40" isle.

    Now as far as what I would put here I am not sure. I figure the main prep area is between the sink and the rangetop. I know I need to put the dishes somewhere so it would be either in the cabinet next to the DW, since those drawers could be fully opened when the DW door is down or they could be in a peninsula drawer(s). I figure that the peninsula is a secondary prep area. Its also next to the DO.

    I know pots and pans will go under the rangetop. I am thinking oil(s) and vinegars in one of the rollouts to the left of the rangetop. Top drawer on either the space corner, top drawer/rollout on the left of the rangetop or the top drawer on the right of the rangetop could be spices or maybe knives/utensils. The bottom drawer under the MW drawer or to the right of the rangetop could possibly hold baking dishes. I figure prep bowls, and that kind stuff would be in on of the space corners middle or bottom drawers. As well as measuring cups, etc.

    I need a place for tupperware, tin foil, plastic wrap, etc. I am sure there will be placemats, etc (Don't have those goodies today). There are decorative serving bowls and platters. I also guess that the location of these drawer(s) in the kitchen would help drive what would be best/practical to store here. For example, these drawers are closest to the table so maybe the items I mentioned above like food storage items, since you pass the peninsula on the way to the sink for cleaning. Or Platters and plates since they are on the way to the table etc.

    I know others have mentioned a 12" wide drawer bank but not sure what one would put in there. Based on my measurements, the actual inside drawer width is 3" narrower then the base cabinet width. So on a 12" wide cabinet, the drawer would have 9" in width. I originally had a 12" wide drawer bank where the MW drawer is and then the cabinet to the right of the rangetop was only 15" wide. When I started playing around I then combined those into a more practical 26" wide drawer (din't realize I also needed to leave room for 1" filler at the time). Combining these came to me after a year and by accident.

    I have way more cabinet space then I did in my old kitchen. Especially in the case of base cabinets. I guess if I knew how people used their larger drawers I would have a eureka moment. The cabinets are custom so I can do any size(s) I want. Just want to make sure its practical.

  • toddimt
    Original Author
    12 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    pudgybaby ,

    How tall is the drawer face on the 41.5" drawer you store your pots and pans?

    You had mentioned to maybe to a split drawer like you have above your 41.5" drawers. What do you have in those drawers? I assume its pantry related stuff. I had clipped your pantry pics a while back since I loved the look. I copied the top part somewhat. I had to eliminate the drawer storage below to put my freezer/fridge drawer since I wanted the space of an all fridge, since its an integrated cabinet depth model. I know you got those nice wide blum tandembox rollouts behind those doors. I contemplated the tandembox but the upcharge from wood dovetailed drawers w/ Blum undermounts for all of my drawers was mucho $$$ that I figured could go towards paying for my freezer drawer and more.

  • pudgybaby
    12 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    By drawer face do you mean the cherry drawer front? It's exactly 12". The blum drawer box is 8.25" tall (measuring the outside of the box).

    I actually meant a split like I have above my 48" drawer on the right (so you would have a 42" on the bottom and 2 x 21" above that, and then two smaller 21" above those - not sure how it would look, though). And in those pantry drawers I have pot holders, oven mits and trivets on the right, and appliance manuals, and random stuff on the left (matches, the felt pads for the bottom of the chairs, stuff like that). The hot pads would be better closer to the range, but they are within easy reach where they are.

    My cabinet maker didn't charge more for the blum tandemboxs. Not sure why. He likes working with them.

    I have 37.5 inches between the counter tops of my 48" cabs and my peninsula and I would love a couple more. In fact, I put a stop to the cabinet installation when I saw the aisle width and came very close to having a new cabinet made for my peninsula to widen the aisle. YMMV.

    Thanks for the nice comments about my pantry. Put a smile on my face.

  • lynn_r_ct
    12 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Didn't fully read every message, but if it hasn't already been suggested - how about a 12" tray cabinet?

  • plllog
    12 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    My 48" drawers are full of cast iron pots plus a few others. They have heavy duty Blum glides and open and close just as easily as any other drawer. There are two knobs space about a quarter of the way in from the edges and I just pull one--that's very offset--to open. Of course, with different hardware/construction YMMV.

    In my 31+" drawers (don't remember exactly how wide they are), I have all my baking pans, some mixing bowls, baking dishes and casseroles, pie plates, my big bread bowl, pot holders, a couple of cooling racks, and the top drawer full of all the tools and utensils for baking inc. rolling pins and parchment paper. They are the whole size available. I'd gladly have them at 42". In my island are some narrow drawers, which are good for knives, gadgets, wraps, and some wider, deeper drawers which are good for more mixing/prep bowls and colanders. I find this intermediate sized drawer the least useful. It's just what fit. I have a few small items that fit in the edges, but there's a lot of wasted space.

    I don't have a big drawer for containers, so I have the big containers and the Pyrex lidded bowls in an upper, and the smaller ones in a corner drawer. When I'm low on stock and spaghetti sauce, that drawer gets overful. I definitely think a wide drawer would be great for containers.

    Again, it's easy to divide a drawer. You can put containers and wraps in one really big drawer, for instance.

    If you need a vertical cabinet for trays or something, the suggestion to divide the space makes sense.

    The one place wider drawers aren't always better, IMHO, is right smack in the prep area, where, otherwise, you can step to the side and keep your drippy whatever held over the counter while you're getting something out, rather than holding it over the open drawer.

  • dianalo
    12 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    I love my wide drawers and would not go with narrower. For example, I use one 36" drawer for our plates, bowls, and other dishware for the table. It holds it all and it is easy to see it all.
    Another one (just below it) has cups, water bottles (the refill kind) and any paper plates, napkins, etc...
    On top of those 2 wide ones are 2 shallow 18" drawers, so they hold cutting boards, scissors, my food processor blades and other misc.
    In another wide bank, I have the top 2 holding, colanders, measuring cups and spoons, etc... Next down is pots, pans, and lids. The bottom one holds mixing bowls, an extra fry pan, serving dishes, etc..
    On our peninsula, I have one of my new faves. It is only 30" wide, but the drawer stack that holds my Tupperware type stuff is amazing. I have to use the bottom 2 drawers for it all, but it is finally organized, easy to find and put away and I know where the lids are to match each item. In the old kitchen, it was stuffed in a base cab that had a shallow shelf in the back and a stile breaking it in half. Stuff would tumble out and it was a crap shoot as to whether I could find a lid. I use 1 of the half width drawers on top for dh's wallet, keys, asstd papers (his), lozenges etc... This way they are not on the micro top (old kitchen location) and are put away out of sight and yet easy to find. The other half width drawer has coupons, gift cards, scissors, tape, stamps, etc....
    The wide drawers (30"+) all came with the top shallower drawers split into 2 separate ones so you can split up utensils and not search through one very big drawer. I have one 18" 4 drawer stack and it is good for what we use it for (silverware, ziplock bags & plastic wrap, plastic utensils, and to go type lunch bags and portable containers on the bottom), but if it were a few inches wider, it would be even better. The rest are 24" minimum (and all base cabs are drawers). I'd never consider using more narrow cabs if I could help it.
    Our dishes drawer holds a ton of weight and still slides easily and smoothly. I love pulling the whole drawer out rather than have to empty out a cab to find something that fell down in the back. Unloading the dw into is is so easy.

    Using smaller drawers not only wastes space, but it costs more and is harder to keep track of what is where. If someone is searching, we have fewer drawers to open and also can house full categories in a single drawer. The 24" stack of drawers next to our wall oven holds all our bakeware below and has the foils (2 sizes) and oven mitts in the top drawer. You will see when you unpack how there will be logical places for things, now that you have more storage. In the old kitchen, I'd have to cram things in where they could fit and keep many kitchen items outside of the kitchen. You will see how lovely it is to have larger cabs and more of them ;)

    GWers are so right when they advocate all drawers, so I just want to add to get fewer drawers by getting wider ones where possible.

  • toddimt
    Original Author
    12 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Was busy stapling up Tyvek outside before the hurricane arrives.
    My 1st floor is gutted and outside rear is plywood. Its under a soffit so even in hard rain it never gets a drop but a hurricane brings sideways wind. Better safe then sorry. Well, back to the topic at hand.

    Hmmm.. Lots of food for thought. I like the descriptions of what you put in the drawers. Helps me sort of visualize what you have where. Pics are a big help as well ;).

    Plllog's use with the baking stuff is a possible good one. The proximity to the DO and likely location for the stand mixer would make this a good spot for this. Dianalo also brought to light the Re-fillable water bottles, Paper plates and JUnk Drawer Stuff. The peninsula will more than likely be the kids homework area as well. The main prep spot is between the rangetop and the sink and there are smaller drawers here.

    What does everyone mean by a 12" tray cabinet? Is this different then what you would use above the oven w/ vertical dividers? One thought that popped into my head was a place to put a stool, since my wife is 5'1" and would be nice to have one handy to reach the higher elevations when needed. Maybe I can shove that somewhere else in the kitchen.

    I hate to throw another thought here but I ave also seen others have 4 drawer stacks. Don't have one of those either. Not sure if it needed or not. Obviously having all deeper drawers and then not filling them up is a waste like smaller drawers with unusable space.

  • plllog
    12 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Shallower drawers are great for utensils and tools. I decided that my perimeter U could work with a single set of levels, though I would have been okay with combining. I have 14" deep drawers under the ovens, with interior pullouts which I use for small appliances. The Cuisinart fits with the bowl on, though not the top. :) The rest of the U, however, are all 11", 9" and 4" high, inside measures. My tallest canisters are 11", and so is my stockpot. My tallest pots are 8", and I think my medium canisters are 9". 4" is deep enough for a ladle, and shallow enough not to feel like things need to be stacked.

    In the (small) island, I have fridge drawers, and lined up the drawers with that. The small knife/gadget/wraps stack of four are on one side, and the annoying, medium set of two drawers are on the other. I also have a stack of four by itself in the butler's pantry, which has flatware and serving pieces.

    For me, the four drawer stack is best used in the prep area or the dish area, as above, since they're most useful for small things like tools and cutlery.

    Unless it's a matter of what the kids can reach, I'd put paper plates and empty water bottles up. (Actually, I did, but they're way up since we use them rarely.) They're light, and don't hurt when they fall on your head.

    I think the tray cabinet is meant to be the same kind as over the oven. Question is how tall is your over oven cabinet? Can it hold your tallest trays? Some people like the under counter cabinet for the really big stuff. (I devoted a whole 30+" cupboard with horizontal shelves to them.)

    The stool idea is a good one. There are folding stepstools that can fit into a narrow cabinet like that. We had a member awhile back who was "height challenged" who used a library stool and left a niche for it. That's something you could do as well. That's the kind of stool with the castors that lock when you step on it. There was a finished void in the cabinetry as a parking place for that.

  • breezygirl
    12 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    I strongly suggest you do a kitchen inventory and then organize your items by zone. Very strongly. This will help you figure out what to store where. Then, knowing what you need to store where, you can decide what type of cab or drawer is the best fit for those items. This is a tedious paper exercise, but is invaluable to get your storage configurations right for you. Have you seen Buehl's "map" for her kitchen storage? I don't have time to find the link now, but maybe someone else has it handy.

    I think there's an explanation, and maybe a link, on the "read me" thread. It used to be prominent in that thread, but I'm not sure anymore. Some basic, how-to-do-a-layout kinds of things seem to be missing from the more recent versions of "read me."

    As far as a 3-drawer vs 4-drawer stack, after you do your inventory see what needs to be stored there. Many things lend themselves to deep drawers better so a 3-drawer stack would be the best. I assumed I'd need 3-drawer stacks near the range, but when I did my inventory I saw that 4 drawers would be better. I've never had a 3-drawer stack before so I know what fits in a 4. I don't think 4 drawers are popular here, but they can be the best choice for some kinds of things. For me, that was an overflow of prep tools from across the island, cooking tools, my oven mitts, and spices.

    The suggested 12" vertical tray storage is a mini version of how you'd store trays on end above the oven. If everything tray-like you need to store fits above the oven, you don't need this.

  • toddimt
    Original Author
    12 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    plllog,

    My guesstimate of the interior dimensions of the tray cabinet above the DO is around 24.75-25" high. That is what I have in m software but is subject to adjustments since things have to be designed around the cool drawer and those custom panels.

    I can see where smaller drawers become a benefit for things like silverware, tinfoil/plastic wrap/ziplocs, kitchen tools/gagets/utensils, knives, etc. I have many small top drawers so maybe I'll be fine as is. Basically just need to dedicate these spaces for those things

    I also will have additional storage that is not depicted on the above drawings. I will have a bumped out windowseat and will build it out of cabinets for storage. Thus approx 8'W and 24" deep and 15-17" tall. I think I will either make this three drawers or try and do a drawer with a top inner rollout. I can put stuff here like less used items, Serving trays/platters, Fancy Dishware, Even Placemats, Dinner Napkins, etc. I also have the base cabinet that opens towards the table , in the peninsula corner. That is under the overhang so it would be used for infrequently used things or maybe extra dog food etc.

    I did have a thought for the stool. I will have rollouts in the pantry cabinet and I could set the bottom drawer a couple of inches above the bottom (Above the cool drawer, so you could side the stool in there. Or anything else that is thin and narrow.

    Breezygirl,

    I totally understand your strong suggestion. I have been procrastinating this for years. I am not the kind of guy that lays things out. When I have done my previous DIY construction projects, I created a rough layout and then did things as I went. This whole design process etc is difficult for my brain to handle ;).

    I had spent years trying all possible configurations for layout. What I have is driven more by where things needed/have to be. The rest of the cabinets were derived by placement of the rangetop and the sink. The only cabinets I could play with were those flanking the rangetop as well as those on the peninsula. Configurations on some of those are determined by adjacent cabinet configurations.

    All of my stuff has been boxed away since June. I gutted the kitchen back then and have been working on framing and finishing the cabinet layout etc. So looking at everything and deciding exactly where it would go isn't gonna happen. I have a pretty good idea in which section things could/should go. As I indicated above, all things prep will try and go between the sink and rangetop. Overflow could extend to the other side of the rangetop, for example, kitchen utensils in the top drawer. I would also have other corningware, Pyrex dishes, etc on the other side of the rangetop. I knew I would be putting dishes away on either the bank of drawers to the left of the DW or in the peninsula, worst case the upper glass cabinet.

    I looked at Buehl's readme and printed the diagrams of her kitchen and what was placed in the cabinets on both her cooktop and sink walls. The glaring things I see that I may need to address are (Dishes, Silverware, Glassware, Tupperware, Wax Paper/Parchment Paper,/Tin Foil/Ziploc bags/Plastic wrap/ etc , Junk Drawer, Hand Mixer (Plus other baking related things), Pot Holders, Roasting Pans. Some of these things I could put in the drawer below the DO. Otherwise, I should be able to fit these things in the remaining drawers on the peninsula or the bank to the left of the DW. My gut is leaning towards a single drawer bank at 42" on the peninsula, vs. dual drawers. This would give me more usable space and worst case is I can combine things. Like silverware and the plasticwrap/ tinfoil/ ziplocs. Make sense?

  • dianalo
    12 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Makes sense. The shallow drawers on top will probably be half width anyway, so that would be where your silverware, wraps and ziplocs will go. I have my foils next to my oven and it is the first time they are not with the plastic wraps and ziplocs in my life and it makes more sense. I do have one 4 drawer stack (18" wide) and combined with the top drawers on our 3 stack banks, that is plenty in our house.

    I am going to put tray storage in the over the oven cab, (when I get dh to get to get around to it) so I think that is a logical place. It is easier to have them all side by side, and 12" would not be wide enough for mine. They are currently in a drawer next to the oven, but that means lifting out the top ones to get to the bottom at times. Not ideal. Ikea makes tray dividers you can use with any cabs and the price is reasonable. It is easier to grab a bottom corner of a tray and take it out.

    I suggest that the cab closest to your table has a spot in it for condiments that don't need refrigeration. My dh loves condiments, so putting them together close to where they are needed works nicely for us. It also keeps him out of my way as he gets what he needs while I am plating dishes.

    Under your window seat is the ideal place for drawers. The lift tops are much less handy. If you google "Garden Web" and "morgue drawers" you will see a great example of this.

    As for your wife, I have found that it is better for my feet to cook in cushioned shoes. I have had pinched nerves in my feet that flare up periodically, and so it helps to keep them properly supported (am in my 40s but it already makes a difference). If you get shoes with a little lift to them, it will eliminate some instances where she'd need the step stool. Mine are mule or clog-like, so I can slip them on easily. Someone here suggested to use those for rolling out dough rather than get a lower counter and it made so much sense. It is a lot easier to get "taller" shoes than to lower every fixture. She will still need the stool from time to time, but it would be less often if she was raised up herself. I also got softer floors, and that helps too when you cook for stretches of time.

  • plllog
    12 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Todds, it sounds like you're narrowing in on what you think you'll need. Remember, no matter how "perfect" you get it, needs change as your cooking style evolves, your family grows and shrinks, your old kitchen things die or move to college and the new ones come in. You do your best to anticipate, and once the new kitchen is in you make it work like you did in every kitchen you didn't design.

    I've been very pleased with how well my kitchen works. I thought it to death and planned and planned and planned, but I also didn't have a complete inventory, and I had never had a kitchen enough like what I designed to do more than speculate, so I assumed there would be problems. There's only one real one which is the DVR that is bigger than I'd planned on and doesn't work from inside a cabinet, but that's one I can solve with money. Otherwise, the kitchen far exceeds my expectations. I'm sure that by thinking all this through you'll also end up with the best possible kitchen.

    So, do you have any serving trays that need homes? I have some that are 30" wide. If you do, that's what the lower tray cabinet is for.

    Re extra dog food, a lower cabinet makes sense for the weight, but it helps, if your dog has any size and power, to put a baby lock on it. The smell is very tempting... A garage that the dog(s) don't stay in is a better place, in my opinion. OTOH, the cabinet under the overhang is great for extra vases, pitchers, candlesticks, etc., that are only used for big time company. :)

  • toddimt
    Original Author
    12 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Well I put up my walls that flank the tall appliance wall (Fridge/DO & Panty) and then looked at the Isle. Pudgybaby you are right. The isle is too narrow. I have everything taped out on the floor. I combined the 2 cabinets into a shorter single 42" one and now the isle (including the 1.5" overhang, is 42". Much better.

    Dianalo,
    The window seat is not a banquet or U shape, thus no long morgue drawers. The window seat is not for primary seating. Its 2' deep and 8' wide and would provide supplementary seating during holidays & big gatherings. So the drawers under would be 2' deep (Like a base cabinet) and probably 32" wide. Unless I break up the 8' into some other configuration.

    You also make a big assumption about my wife. The one that she "cooks" ;). That is why I am here not her. She does simpler things and leaves the heavy lifting to me.

    Pllog,

    The largest serving tray that I know of is only 24" long. I always could put any longer trays I could procure either in my window seat storage or on one of the shelves in the pantry.

    As far as the DVR goes, what make and model is it? Who is your cable provider. I do home theater integration and on some of the DVR's there are cheaper solutions. Worst case is an IR Receiver Kit for about $100-$150

    My dog is a 13# Schnoodle so no worries. But the idea of vases, pitchers, etc is a good idea.

  • dianalo
    12 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Lol.... I bet if you were to make things too high, you wife would cook even less ;)
    In our house, I do approx 95% of the cooking, but I have friends whose dh's cook and so I am aware of the phenomena, lol....Dh is good at egg sandwiches and pasta with beans. Over the years, he has learned a few other tasks, but I do the heavy lifting. I actually enjoy cooking, but the clean up is another story, esp if it is a mess left by someone else. I am trying to housebreak our 2 sons about this and many other things. It is ongoing.... I am determined to have daughters-in-law who are grateful that their husbands cook and clean.

    I guess if you have normal depth window seating, then regular drawers would work. I think I heard that 24" is too deep, but I could be wrong. Others here are better at some of the guidelines.

  • sandca
    12 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    I usually think that wider drawers are more functional. You have to subtract at least 4-6" for the extra cab sides and drawer glides with 2 cabs instead of one. As well the smaller width drawers have less flexibility with the likelihood of more waste. However 42" is very wide. I would be concerned that it wouldn't be supported well enough. I also think that 42" drawer fronts would look unbalanced with the rest of your drawer sizes unless you mended 2 21" fronts together.

  • toddimt
    Original Author
    12 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Here is my latest thought.

    The space I am working with is 42".

    I either do:

    A) 42" wide drawers. I can put double drawer fronts on so they appear as dual 21" drawers.

    OR

    B) I do 39" wide drawers on the peninsula. With the extra 3", I then have this made into a cabinet in essence on the end of the peninsula with a door panel. I then have a place to put a step stool :). I may also put a false drawer front on the end panel and this would give me a place to put my electrical outlet that is stupidly required. To me using this outlet would be a huge hazard if anything is plugged in. I then have a nice 3" cavity to run the wiring and center the box on the panel as well.

    Thoughts?

    If its B do I leave them as a single 39" drawer front or use double drawer fronts to make them appear smaller?

  • rhome410
    12 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    That 3" doesn't give you 3" of storage, though, right? If you want to keep the door within the 42" of overall cabinet, you need more like 4", at least?

    Since that would be the widest set of drawers in your kitchen, you might prefer the illusion of 2 smaller ones. The single wider would be cleaner and give the illusion of length. But it might feel imbalanced with the rest... Not sure.

  • bmorepanic
    12 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    The problem with the ref in the exact position you have it is that it can become a serious choke point.

    Using the 38" length marker supplied by Scherrs, and allowing for counter overhangs, the aisle is 38" without the ref-freezer doors and handles. Those will take away 3-7" depending on the depth of the handles(2"?) and panels (1.5") and the doors(3"?). Unless you're getting a very expensive ref, you'll end up you with a 31"-35" aisle.

    That makes two things tight. Carrying stuff like grocery bags or a platter through that opening - it takes about 42" for comfort. Maybe you never need to do that.

    People also need to stand in front of the ref when they use it and they sometimes have the doors open and stand in front of the doors cruising the contents. If that's a 36" ref, the doors will protrude around 18" when open, normal sized body depth is 16-18" and there is nothing left for others to pass. If you have a drawer freezer, same deal - but it can use a little bit more of the aisle. A door freezer uses a ton of aisle - like the entire space.

    Also the end stool user might get elbow in face - because everyone will turn around and set stuff on the peninsula.

    I'm not trying to say you can't trade off a bottleneck and a seating position, I'm trying to say I'm pretty sure that aisle will end up being a bottle neck.

    ==================================

    Scherrs might be able to make that entire end cabinet out of one piece instead of two seperate cabinets. You might ask what that costs because a 3" cabinet (without the door) may actually be 2" or less deep.

    You lose either about an inch (structural rail + cabinet back) in depth or perhaps as little as 1/2" if they can do a solid back that is structural instead of the loose back. Also ask about the depth required by the hinge itself for whatever hinges you've selected.

    If you're thinking 3" includes the door, then the cabinet will be either 1.75" deep or 1.5" deep. If it doesn't include the door, the cabinet could be 2.5" or 2" deep. If its built as one piece with the drawer cabinet (without the door), it increases to 3" deep.

  • lolauren
    12 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Yeah.... I don't think 3" equates to 3" of cabinet space.... but do you just need 1" or so for the step stool to fit?? that idea is good if you don't have another place for the step stool and you know your step stool is very narrow. For clarification, you mean the door to this step stool storage space would open towards your double ovens?

    I don't think a wide drawer will look bad or mismatched where it is. It isn't in a row of drawers; it is in the peninsula alone......

  • toddimt
    Original Author
    12 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    OK. Clarification time again ;).

    Bmore,

    The fridge is not opposite the peninsula. It was there 2 years ago but at your suggestion and others it was moved to the left of the DO. Opposite the peninsula is the Pantry (double doors). The bottom half of the pantry (About 0-34" high) is the Fisher Paykel Cool Drawer. This will typically be a freezer only and we don't tend to use the freezer allot so usage should be minimal. Benefit is I can make this drawer anything I want from fridge/freezer/wine/beverage fridge or pantry at any time. The fridge on the left is designed to mimic the pantry/cool drawer on the right of the DO.

    As far as this stool cabinet. I spoke with Scherr's and asked that this be designed more like a 3" frame that attaches to the side of the 39" cabinet. I think I got the engineers working OT on this project. Thus the back of the 3" stool area is really the side of the 39" cabinet. At 3" there should be no reason to have to have a back. The frame should be able to be attached by screwing through the inside of the 39" cabinet. Also, I would think a hook or something could be attached to the cabinet side to hold the stool, so no real weight anyway would be on the frame not that is should matter.

    The cabinets are frameless so the door panel would be on the outside of this 3". So you would have the 39" drawer bank + 3" space + door. So I will have a full 3" of depth. The stool I was looking at:

    http://www.crateandbarrel.com/decorating-and-accessories/step-stools/mini-white-step-stool/s574310

    says it folds to 1.25" deep. I found it cheaper on Amazon and will order 1 in so I can be sure of the measurements before committing to anything. On this side the overhang of the counter would be 1.5" from the outside edge of the 3" cabinet part (Not including the door). This leaves me with a full 42" from the counter edge to the face of the doors on the pantry.

    Make sense?

  • rhome410
    12 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    OK. I thought you wanted to keep the whole thing to 42", but now see that you're replacing the end panel with a door (right?), so it's a wash. And without a back, you get your full depth.

  • plllog
    12 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    I think the stool cubby in the end sounds like a great idea, and your annoying code outlet "drawer" sounds great too.

    Thanks for offering advice about the DVR. It's a Motorola POS provided by Time Warner Cable. The TV (a kitchen warming present) is nice and modern and does bluetooth and/or wi-fi (I forget, precisely) but the cable box/dvr is finicky. I use the video on demand feature a lot, and all of the alternatives to the box in the kitchen that I've found don't do that, or don't do it well enough. I have a Crestron system for the stereo, but I don't have any slots left and don't really want to upgrade that. Even if I did, I would find the lag between the remote and IR wire operation of a remote receiver too annoying. If you have any ideas I'd be thrilled to hear them!

  • toddimt
    Original Author
    12 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Plllog,

    You mention Time Warner so are you in NYC? If so I am across the river in NJ. Well I guess I am derailing my own thread so I guess that's acceptable. Is the box in the kitchen but hidden or is it somewhere else in the house? Crestron is the high end of control systems. It could control everything, out of my league of expertise, but you seem to say its just music. If you have the DVR in the kitchen but its hidden or has to be hidden in a cabinet or behind the TV area the cheapest thing to do is to use what is called an IR (infrared) repeater. This will allow you to put receiving eye on the TV and it transmits the signals from the remote to a "flasher" that is put on the IR window on the DVR box. Some Motorolla boxes have an input on the back for and IR receiver. Comcast in our area gives them out now with the boxes. My mom kept here when she switched to Verizon (Same boxes). I never tried using a third party one though but can try when I get a chance. If you want you can email me, via the profile link. Pics always help so I can see what you are trying to do and I'll see if I can come up with something for you.

  • plllog
    12 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Todds, you're very kind to offer the advice and hijack your own thread. :)

    Not NY. I was in NYC for four days once, though. :) I'm in Southern California. TWC ate the company which ate the company which ate the company which ate the local outfit. My Crestron unit has 8 slots and is 10 years old. All the slots are filled and upgrading is more than I'm going to spend on TV, and, thinking it through, I don't think it would actually improve things since there still would have to be a cable box, and an IR wire. It's fast if I use the controller on the computer, but there is lag on the remote, and big time lag on the IR components.

    The box was going to be under the TV, but the new box didn't work that way, so it's sucking table space. It's the IR thing I don't want to do because of the lag. I can bounce the remote off the ceiling from anywhere in the kitchen and get a pretty instant response.

    I get really impatient and in many ways preferred analog, but they wrested it out of my hands (the box, that is--they still have the analog signal, and it's such a pleasure to tune through the old VCR upstairs. :) Doesn't work for scrambled and digital channels, of course, so it's a fleeting pleasure.

    They're offering whole house DVR nowadays from TWC, and I may investigate that, but if it has the same lag it's not going to work for me. The TV is supposed to be a companion while I'm cooking, not a distraction. :)

    Thanks so much for your offer. I will e-mail you when I've thought it through more. If there's a solution that'll run on a wi-fi signal, rather than the IR repeater, I think that would suit me.