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la_koala

Help pls - ques re ss, um sink/base dims (Ticor vs Elkay vs ?)

la_koala
13 years ago

Hi,

I'm trying to understand why some stainless steel, undermount sinks that seem to have almost the same interior/exterior dimensions differ so much in their stated minimum sink base.

Example:

- Ticor S112 is 31 1/2 in. long exterior, says 33 in. minimum sink base. Interior is 29 1/2, so 2 inch 'lip'.

- Elkay EGUH2816R is 30 1/2 in. long exterior (one inch shorter than Ticor), says 36 in. minimum cab size. Interior is 28 in, so 2 1/2 inch 'lip'.

- Oliveri 890U is 30 in. long ext/28 int., says 33 in. min. sink base (aligns with the Ticor statement).

- Kraus KHU100-30 is 30 in long ext/ 28 in. interior, says 30 in. minimum sink base (?!)

I don't know anything about how the mounting clips work--so I suspect that's part of my confusion. In my current kitchen, I have a topmount, as do my parents, so I don't have any experience with the undermounts.

I know that I want at least a 28 in. interior. Because I've got a U layout, with the sink at the bottom of the U, being able to use the smallest possible sink base cab would help me gain more usable space in the cabinet next to the sink.

Questions:

1. How do the Ticor mounting clips work/look?

2. Why would the Elkay sink, which is shorter than the Ticor S112, need a longer cabinet than the Ticor?

Now, the Elkay site does have an illustration of their clips, and seeing that I can sort of understand that since they have a 2 1/2 in 'lip', their clips need 2 1/2 inches to match the illustration. 2.5 x 2 = 5 inches, so 30 1/2 plus 5 puts the total length at 36 in. But do the clips have to follow the length dimension? Couldn't they follow the width (front to back) dimension to hold the sink?

3. Does installing the Ticor S112 into a 33" base require a lot of scooping, customization of the sink base sides to use their mounting clips?

4. How can the Kraus description say a 30 inch sink fits into a minimum 30 inch sink base? Don't the mounting brackets need some space in the sink base? (gee, I am so confused!)

Thank you for reading this, and thanks in advance for any insight!

Lee

Comments (4)

  • snoonyb
    13 years ago

    First of all you need to understand that the size of a cabinet is the overall dimension of the face frame and thusly, the interior dimension is reduced by up to 2 inches.
    Also the clips are not necessarily the best method of installing an undermount and in some material is discouraged.
    There are mounting brackets which are designed specifically for that application and are installed using the cabinet as the support structure.

    In some cases the "minimum" cabinet size reflects what is considered by some as the sink cabinet being wasted space and not saying that the cabinet may need to be amended to affect a fit.

    You'll notice that all of the dimensions are divisible by 3. That is because of an "industry standard" for "bag-n-box" cabinetry, as opposed to custom cabinets.

  • la_koala
    Original Author
    13 years ago

    Hi snoonyb, thanks for responding.

    First of all you need to understand that the size of a cabinet is the overall dimension of the face frame and thusly, the interior dimension is reduced by up to 2 inches.

    Thanks! We're having frameless cabinets, with sides 3/4 inch thick (2 sides x 3/4 inch = 1.5 inch loss to sides). So, from a 33 inch cabinet, that leaves 31.5 inches in the interior; and from a 36 inch cabinet, that leaves 34.5 inches, right?

    I'm confused about what you mean by this sentence:
    In some cases the "minimum" cabinet size reflects what is considered by some as the sink cabinet being wasted space and not saying that the cabinet may need to be amended to affect a fit.

    The "minimums" in my original post are cited from the manufacturer's pages about their sinks. So, I was assuming that what they are saying is how I buy clothes: if I (the sink) am a certain size, and I'm looking for a dress, the dress had better be that size or bigger. Or else, I won't fit inside of it. :-)

    So, were you indicating that when a sink manufacturer says the minimum fit needed is XYZ, that that is only a guideline of some sort, and has something to do with their thoughts of the cabinet interior as wasted space?

  • davidro1
    13 years ago

    I'll rewrite this: "In some cases the "minimum" cabinet size reflects what is considered by some as the sink cabinet being wasted space and not saying that the cabinet may need to be amended to affect a fit" in another way:
    = = Usually, the size declared as "minimum" cabinet size is the safest size to give to the public because it involves no amending to make a fit. In reality, it wastes a fair amount of space when one adopts a strict optimizer point of view.

    --

    Yes, in frameless boxes a 33 inch cabinet leaves 31.5 inches in the interior; and from a 36 inch cabinet leaves 34.5 inches. The amount of space available inside is 1.5" less than the width of the exterior.

    --

    If your sink is greater than these dimensions (31.5" or 34.5") by an inch or a bit more, you MAY have to do some work cutting some of the chipboard out, to allow the sink rim to rest directly on the chipboard sides and also not be too high. OR' you could do no cutting, and instead add a strip of metal filler on top of the chipboard sides everywhere, to raise the level of the counter. I did this and I screwed the metal strips to the chipboard sides, thereby making a solid frame of all the cabinet boxes all screwed together, and also giving the counter a base to rest on that was better than resting it on the chipboard sides. Ta da!

  • la_koala
    Original Author
    13 years ago

    Oh davidro1, thank you, thank you, thank you!!

    For your words going to the heart of my question:
    Usually, the size declared as "minimum" cabinet size is the safest size to give to the public because it involves no amending to make a fit. In reality, it wastes a fair amount of space when one adopts a strict optimizer point of view.

    That is precisely what I was wondering about. Thank you for that.

    OR' you could do no cutting, and instead add a strip of metal filler on top of the chipboard sides everywhere, to raise the level of the counter. I did this and I screwed the metal strips to the chipboard sides, thereby making a solid frame of all the cabinet boxes all screwed together,

    That is a really neat idea! Adds some structural strength while addressing sink fit. Thanks for sharing that--it never would have occurred to me.

    Do you see any downsides to adding the metal filler (other than material cost and the labor)? I mean, I know you said you did it--I'm just wondering if there was a downside that I'm not seeing, which you were willing to live with to get the benefits.

    Thanks again for realizing the heart of my question better than I knew how to ask it!

    --Lee

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