Please critique my kitchen layout

13 years ago

I have uploaded images of my existing kitchen along w/ renderings of a kitchen designed by a local kitchen company. There isn't any changes to the structure except for removing the coat closet where the file cabinet & picture ledges are currently and extending the island on right side (dishwasher side) enough to incorporate 3 drawers. Other than that nothing is changing with the existing walls. I would very much like to hear comments about the design. Also, I would ask for opinions on the estimate I received.

I've chosen Wellborn Monterey Maple series w/ Vanilla Slate finish. The upgrades I've chosen are:

1. Light rail on upper cabinets

2. Oversized crown molding on upper cabs.

3. The other side of island will be clad in matching wood veneer w/ judges panels, 4 matching corbels to support granite, and base furniture molding.

4. Lower cabinets have pull out shelves

5. Trash can receptacle

6. Spice pull out drawers w/ decorative splintz (sp??) on either side of oven.

As of now, we are keeping existing appliances (that may change before starting remodel). If I left out any descriptions you may need I'll provide the information.

The initial quote for cabinets includes all demoing of current cabinets & counters, disposal & installation of new cabinets is $23,388.00. This is my first quote so I don't know if this is fair or overpriced.

Thank you for any advice given in advance. I know this is time consuming and I truly appreciate anyone who looks at my pictures and takes the time to give me their opinions.

Here is a link that might be useful: kgolby's kitchen

Comments (13)

desertsteph
13 years ago
here are the drawings. I found them difficult to view tho.

I did notice you said you were getting cab slideouts - not drawers in the base cabs? drawers are so much easier to access. there was something else too I think but i forget what. will have to reread you post...

{{!gwi}}

{{!gwi}}

{{!gwi}}

{{!gwi}}
desertsteph
13 years ago
do get a few more quotes for the job.
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Interrupting for the range trim, its gotta have something! Seriously - you need to choose one of them, island, normal or tall. You sound like you should get the island trim (1" tall). If you get the default (4-8" tall trim), it will cover over more of the backsplash than you'd like. For the hutch, remember that black is a pita for showing dust. I gotz the following stuff about the appliance garage - have you thought about how those doors will open? It looks like one will open towards you and without special hinges may actually block you from being able to get into it. It doesn't look like a good place for a mixer because it would need to be pulled out onto the little piece of counter towards one side of the sink - not a lotta room to sit other ingredients nearby. Remember to ask what the clearance height is for the appliance garage and know the height of your mixer. With framed cabinets and large mixers, it might not have enough height. When I used to own a kitchenaid mixer, I felt like I needed a certain amount of overage to be able to pick the darned thing up because it weighed so much. I don't know if I'd be comfortable using a toaster that close to a water source.
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I really like that you have a place to prep food out of sight from guests, but will you be using that personally or do you plan on having that space for caterers or paid help? Will you use that primarily *before* guests arrive so that your main kitchen is clean? If you are using it yourself while people are over you may feel a bit left out. (but you may get done a lot faster!) I wonder if you would rather make the "food storage" in the pantry area in to a top cabinet and a bottom cabinet allowing you more counter space. I think that if you (or help) were plating food or appetizers the extra counter space would come in handy. And you could still store food in the upper and lower cabinets (besides if you are prepping *before* guests arrive, you could easily get the food you need out of the main kitchen) I definitely see the advantage of having the sink next to the espresso machine. I am not sure I would move the wallovens to the fridge wall. i think you will really like having the long expanse of counter space next to fridge directly behind the sink. Hmm, would you rather have 2 dish washers in the main area, or 2 dishwashers in the pantry where you can stash dirty dishes after a party? If you got rid of a dishwasher you could add more storage in the island or even an extra seat. I wonder if you would rather a speed oven in pantry rather than a microwave, and leave the microwave handy in the main kitchen. I imagine wanting to heat up that cup of coffee or quickly heat up a plate of food and having to walk back to the pantry. Would you be using the microwave a lot prepping for a party? Normally, I dislike hallways because they quickly eat up space. But I do like the way your office is separated a bit, but near from the kitchen and family room. And I like how you don't have to walk *around* the wall to get to the pantry - it needs to be easy and quick to get to. And the fact that it is hidden is a great feature. -Will your guests hang out with you in the kitchen while you cook, or are you a bit more formal? or both? -Would you ever want a separate entrance into the formal dining, if you were to have caterers for example? I did notice that you had 2 doors to the pantry, it may get cramped, but what do you see using the 2nd door for (the one past the elevator)? Beautiful=)!
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Are you interested in another layout? If so, I came up with one using your inspiration pantries (2). You may have already tried it an nixed it, but I thought I'd draw it up (I enjoy doing this). I wanted to make a comment about the pantries--ventilation! As you may or may not know, there's a fairly recent thread concerning ventilation of pantries and having venting both high & low. Your inspiration pantries inherently have just what seems to be needed--open at top & bottom! So, in addition to looking unique, it's also a well-ventilated design! First, here's the layout: Changes: * Added 2 pantries on either end of the range wall similar to your inspiration picture * Centered the 36" range and 42" hood in the remaining space--gives you 31" of counterspace & 25" of upper cabinets on each side of the range/hood (For adequate venting, it's strongly recommended that you have a hood at least 6" wider than your range or cooktop.) * Moved the MW oven over to where the pantry was * Moved Refrigerator to where the MW was * Moved the DW to the other side of the sink so the DW & Range don't interfere w/each other when both doors are open...this may not be necessary since the aisle has more than enough space to have them both open at the same time, you just wouldn't be able to stand in front of them if they're both open. In its new position, you also will not be trying to prep while someone else is trying to load the DW and if the DW is running, you won't have to prep in front of it. * Required the move of the wind chiller to the other side...this is the main reason I don't like the move for the DW Comments: With two 36" wide pantries (total 72"), you gain quite a bit of additional storage space that is also very flexible. You could even hang a broom or mop on a side wall. I showed 15" shelves b/c that depth gives you the flexibility to be able to store small appliances, dishes, pots & pans, etc. as well as dry goods. You maintain a good work flow: Refrigerator-to-sink-to-prep (island)-to-range You have plenty of workspace around the range as well as on the island Zones are somewhat separate...the only real overlap is the prep & cleanup b/c you only have one sink. However, I don't think you really have room for a prep sink--it will rob you of necessary counterspace; plus your kitchen is small enough to allow easy access to the sink from anywhere in the kitchen. If you can corral your dirty dishes to the right of the sink, that will leave you the left side for prep. (Dirty dishes will be coming from the table in the Nook so the right side is the natural place for dirty dishes) -- Prep: 38" x 42" of counter space -- Cooking: Two counters 31" x 24" each -- Cleanup: 38" x 42" of counter space Landing space for MW and refrigerator is the island The refrigerator and MW are in a position to make them accessible from both the kitchen and the Great Room without interfering with the kitchen work flow and zones. Putting the MW cabinet b/w the wall and the refrigerator helps the refrigerator not block the Great Room doorway when open I didn't change anything in the Nook It's not that this layout is better, functionally than yours, I was just trying to give you something closer to your inspiration picture/pantries. Just some food for thought!
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Congrats on getting ready to remodel your kitchen! But honestly, I think you can improve upon this plan. Is your fridge currently against the wall as shown in the plan? Do you have any problems opening the freezer door with only 2" to its left? Even if you can, this location won't allow you the option to switch to a French door fridge in the future. It won't be possible to open the door wide enough to pull out fridge drawers. This is how wide I have to open my fridge door to pull out one of the 3 drawers. No way could I do that with only 2" between fridge and wall. You haven't allowed a decent aisle at the end of the peninsula. It's the only way in and out of the kitchen and it's only 35" wide. I think you need to reduce the peninsula from 108" to at least 101" (42" aisle); 95" would be better (48" aisle). You haven't accurately shown the width of the peninsula. You forgot the counter overhang for the cabinets, which is generally 1 1/2". So your peninsula will be 37 1/2" not 36". Two people will be able to work on a 95" peninsula if no one is at the range or the oven door is opened. It's going to be close quarters for more than one person at the range. And it's going to be impossible for someone to load or unload the DW when someone's at the range and vice versa because the range and DW doors overlap. Your plan shows a 12" wide cabinet between range and peninsula; you can't butt cabinets up against each other in a corner. You need to include a 3" spacer in the corner so that you can open drawers without them banging into the handles of the drawers perpendicular You won't be able to open the drawers without banging into the drawer hardware of the perpendicular run. Here's my corner with a drawer base next to the corner. That means that you'd only have room for a 9" wide cabinet, which Ikea doesn't make. You can correct that by shifting the peninsula 3" towards the FR or 2" by switching out the base cab for a 38" x 38" corner cab. Which brings up another issue. Ikea doesn't make a 36" corner cabinet, only a 38" corner cabinet. Here's your plan with the issues I see corrected (blue circles are people. Gotta use your imagination, lol): And that hasn't addressed the concern stated above: a 24" sink cabinet is undersized. That's what I often recommend for prep sinks. And the DW is in the prep zone between sink and range. Do you have pantry storage somewhere? Is getting 4 seats at the counter a must? Is the 9'6" measured to the DR doorway or to the dotted line in the first floor floor plan above? If the latter, what is the width of the wall to the DR doorway? If the latter, and you can get by with only 3 counter seats, consider this idea: No appliance door overlap, fridge doors can open unhindered, pantry storage included, fridge at perimeter so family and friends can grab drinks easily, plenty of room for more than one person in the kitchen, more than one good stretch of counter to work on, more than one way in and out of the kitchen, 3 seats (2 comfortably) at the counter, and a larger sink base with the sink is centered on the window. I forgot to mark it but I recommend that you get a single bowl sink with off-set drain and the sink cab with pull-out function so you can put the trash under the sink on the non-disposal side. You can get by with only 36" between FR furniture and island because the seating is on the long side, not the short end. Would this work?
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kgolby
Original Author
13 years ago
My scanner isn't working properly and I only received paper copies from the KD so I took pictures of each image. I apologize for the poor quality. I'm working on scanning the images for better viewing.
kgolby
Original Author
13 years ago
Forgot to answer question re: cabinets. I wanted drawers on either side but KD suggest cabinets b/c the drawers are only so deep & can't hold larger pots, etc... Good thing is this is the 1st drawing & I'm still tweaking it the design.
palimpsest
13 years ago
See if Wellborn makes a drawer base with two deep drawers (the top drawer of which sometimes has a shallow sliding tray inside).

This is good for pots and pans. I have specified these in two kitchens, and the KD/cabinet reps both said that type of cabinet "did not exist" --until they found it in their catalogue.
granite-girl
13 years ago
Yeah- I was going to suggest that about the cabinets with slide-outs. Drawers are much easier to work. Maybe leave 1 slide-out over in the "bar" area.
Also- Gosh I wish my kitchen was as nice as the one you are replacing !
Does that estimate include countertops ? What are you planing there? That price does seem a little high, but Wellborn is considered a custom cabinet line I think. Did they seperate out the labor ? i'd be interested to see what part that was...
kgolby
Original Author
13 years ago
Granite-girl,

No, the estimate was for cabinets, labor & sink. It seems high to me too but this is the first estimate so I don't know if what I'm wanting to do is going to cost this much. I've got other companies I'm working w/ so I'll be able to compare. I'm wondering if the 2 pantries and all the paneling w/ molding detail around the island is making it go up in price. I had an appt. yesterday AM and noticed the initial quote on the desk before some changes we made was around $17K. So after 2 hr appt. the changes I made increased the price $6K!! YIKES... The only changes were the glaze finish which is a 15% upgrade, the additional pantry which includes tearing out a coat closet & fixing wall w/ door, wood veneer w/ molding detail on island, corbels, wider crown molding, a mullion door at bar & decorative detail on spice pull outs next to oven. Does these changes seem like a $6K increase?

I like the design except for bar area. I really would like to make the wet bar a desk for laptop, phone etc... I'd like to have a place for a chair and 3 drawers on right side. Not sure if there's enough room between wet bar & island. It's 40" between the two. Does that seem tight if someone was sitting in a chair to pass behind?

I've chosen granite for countertops. The quote for granite is $3630 for 77 sq. ft of Level I granite. Additional $540 for Level II w/ standard edge.
ashebooks
13 years ago
Placing your range and sink where corner cabinets would normally go is a blessing. Having no corner cabinets saves a lot of wasted and/or difficult to reach space.

Negatives. Refridgerator so close to range. If you eventually get a new refridgerator do consider a french-door model with dual condensers (more precise temperature control) Also Your sink/dishwasher placement will require a lot of walking back and forth with tableware.

BUT of course one has to work with the space you have.

DO CONSIDER trying to salvage material and donating to local Habitat for Humanity or other charity (and you'll get a tax deduction too)
desertsteph
13 years ago
"I wanted drawers on either side but KD suggest cabinets b/c the drawers are only so deep & can't hold larger pots"

what is their deepest drawer?

how high is your largest pot? how many do you have that size? how often do you use it/them?
palimpsest
13 years ago
Based on a couple of kitchens I have planned, adding a glass door to a cabinet can triple its price, (now it needs a matching interior); and using farmhouse legs on an island can add $1000; and one or two fancy pullout cabinets can be 1/3 of the entire cabinet order, so yes...changes like you made can add $6000 believe it or not:)
kgolby
Original Author
13 years ago
This was the first drawing & after looking at it for a day I think I want to eliminate the wine rack & peninsula cabinet. Palimpsest, thanks for the insight on mullion doors. Also, I figured the upgrade charge for the glazing is over $3K. That's a lot to me for glazing though I really do like the look. Do people normally request a breakdown of all the cabinet pieces & their costs? I did this when we built our pool. It makes it a lot easier to determine if the extras are really worth it.

I don't have tall pots and the deepest drawer planned right now is, I think, 10". I'm not sure what the deepest drawer Wellborn makes. I've made notes to inquire about a 2 drawer cabinet b/c this is where I'll place my Tupperware, etc... I've got cabinets right now w/ pullouts and the Tupperware constantly falls behind the pullouts. Pain in the butt to have to reach down and pick it up. With drawers that completely eliminates the problem.

I agree about the layout of the kitchen, ashebooks. If I had lots of $$$ I would tear down all the walls and start over. But I've got to work w/ the walls we've got.

Thanks everyone who is offering opinions & suggestions. It's really nice to read outside opinions from experienced members.
chicagoans
13 years ago
Regarding cabinets vs drawers and pricing: when we ordered, we found that drawers were less expensive than cabinets with rollout shelves - which was fine with me because I wanted drawers anyway. I love having my pots and pans in drawers.
kgolby
Original Author
13 years ago
Chicagoans,

Thanks for the insight about drawers being more cost effective than cabinets w/ pullouts. Kind of makes sense to have drawers if it works in the space. I went to HD today and spoke w/ the KD who's a former custom cabinet maker. After retiring & selling his custom cabinet business he said he was retired for about 6 mos & then went to work for HD. I'm hoping his expertise can help w/ selection of product line & placement.

Please critique my kitchen layout

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