Regarding #2- It is true that the environmental regulations in california are more strict than most other places. No polyerethane can be used in the finish. I got custom cabinets and I am concerned that the finish may not hold up as well as cabinets made somewhere else. If I had to do it over I might choose a national line of cabinets that are manufactured outside of CA.

California dreamer, is the difference visible?

Regarding #1 - I live in southern California, but in the Conejo Valley. I received 5 different quotes and didn't pay for any of them. One quote was from Lowes, one from a custom shop, one from a shop selling Woodmode/Brookhaven exclusively, and two from shops selling numerous lines of cabinetry. I did bring in a plan from my architect from which they came up with their quote--although all tweaked it, some a little and some a lot. Are you asking them to come up with a plan? That may be why they are charging a fee.

Thanks, Sally. That actually helps alot...no I wasn't asking them to come up with a plan but I never really thought about taking the plan to them...I was assuming they would come to my house. And we don't have a Lowes close by. I think I got discouraged by my first two contacts, Home Expo and Plaza Kitchens, because it sounds like if I had just kept going, I might have found some alternatives and you've given me the encouragement to do that. I found shopping for appliances to be fairly straightforward but for some reason I've been feeling pretty intimidated about getting started on the cabinet part. I think part of it has been not knowing where to start...no local recommendations so far except for one very high end shop. Well, actually, most recommendations have just been for contractors and I'm trying to be own GC--maybe. Guess maybe I just start in the yellow pages under Cabinets...

I'm about 100 miles south of you, in San Diego County, and only ONE charged anything before giving me a plan and a bid. Home Depot charged $100 to come out and measure my kitchen - which was refundable if we purchased cabinets from them. The measuring was very detailed - DH was here when the contractor came and they measured everything including the dishwasher and refrigerator that we were planning to keep in the new kitchen. Then the HD KD sat down with us for almost 2 hours to get all the info about what we wanted our new kitchen to look like, asked us questions about needs (drawers, cabinets, sliding shelves, pantry, etc). Within a week or so, she'd come up with a tentative plan, and we sat down with her for another hour or so and tweaked it here and there. Then we went for a bid from the HD contractor to do the installation and the rest of the kitchen (and promptly threw it out).

The other kitchen design was done by a local kitchen cabinet company - completely free. I'm sure they'd built in the design into the cost of their cabinets. Ouch, it was almost double what HD's cabinets were, and only a little bit better quality. But they were facing the same thing that we avoided by going with the HD Thomasville line - California code! If you're interested in the name of the company, I'll look it up.

We had a third bid, but it was so out of line with either of the other two, that I threw it out. We ended up buying our cabinets from HD and hiring our own GC for everything else. He was happy with that, too - said he'd love to build cabinets but just didn't have the time in his schedule or the place in which to do it any more.

DonnaR/CA

Sally- I'm in the Conejo Valley too!

gailrolfe- I don't think there is a visible difference becuase my cabinets are brand new. But I think 5 or 10 years from now, my cabinets will probably have more dings and chips in the finish than cabinets that were made with a more durable finish.
I am concerned about it but my cab guys have assured me they will come back every year if I want them to for touch ups, etc. I had a VERY tight time table for my remodel and custom cabs were my only option. So, for me, it was a trade off I was willing to make.
HTH

Hey Conejo Valley people! Maybe we need to have a get together! Sorry to hijack your thread, gailrofe, and I'm about 60 miles too far west for a recommendation.

donnar57--thanks. that's interesting. I'm beginning to get the impression that most people around here basically end up getting their cabinets from either HD or Home Expo even if they do their own plan, design and installation...and the more I hear about the California code issues on the cabinets finishes, the more I'm beginning to think maybe I don't need to worry too much about whether or not I am adequately checking out local cabinetmakers....

And for all of you...where in the heck is Conejo Valley, anyway? I thought I knew SoCal pretty well (came here in 78--doesn't that almost make me native?) and I've never heard of it....what's the major city/town?

Conejo Valley is the valley to the north/west of the San Fernando Valley. It is at the top of LA County and the bottom of Ventura County. It includes Thousand Oaks, Agoura Hills, Oak Park, Westlake Village, Newbury Park, etc.

As far as cabinets go, I decided against custom cabinets for reasons that have been mentioned here. I was all set to go with Schuler cabinets at Lowe's until they told me I had to pay 100% up front. I was worried about that, posted here and was directed to Medallion cabinets. Apparently Schuler is just Lowe's name for the same cabinets. I found a local Medallion dealer off the internet and their bid for the exact same cabinets was $5000 less than Lowe's. They also had more door options and their designer knew more about the line than the designer at Lowe's. I chose better doors and so will probably end up paying the same, but I am very happy to have made that discovery. Many people here have found that smaller shops can beat the box stores' prices.

Okay, all you Conejo Valley residents--I think it would be fun to get together. Maybe some other southern Californians would like to come as well. Shall we start a new thread?

Thanks, Sally123! I've looked at a lot of internet sites of cabinets but I think before I go that route I have to have a very clear understanding of exactly which cabinets go where, correct? I think I need some help coming up with that level of detail but maybe my KD/consultant can help me do that and then I can try the internet option. Interesting the price differences. And thanks for the geography lesson...I know the area but always thought it was just part of the SFV. Nice area up there--I've heard there are lots of granite/stone yards out that way.

gailrolfe,

I have been a member of the garden web for a couple of years now but don't post too often. I had to come in on this one. I spent 18 years in the cabinet business and never once asked for a deposit to quote a project. I don't know where these companies get off asking for a deposit to quote. I also live in So Cal and am happy that we have strict regulations concerning the finishes that can be used. I think all states should. I know people in the cabinet business that only use F.S.C certified materials for their cabinet construction and high quality, water based finishes. These practices result in a much healthier product but still a high quality product. I don't see where people would prefer formaldehydes and volatile organic compounds in the environment where they live. Please give the small, local shops a chance. They are the back bone of our society...and they are usually good people too.

Tshad, thanks for presenting the other side. I am interested in learning more about what the qualitative differences really are which is why I originally posted the question but the lack of response led me to think that what I had originally been told is essentially well-accepted. I wonder if you can refer me to somewhere ( a website, for example?)that I could learn more about these differences? I too want to support those practices that support a healthier environment but sometimes the regs and the options seem to leave us in a bit of quandary (like the reg requiring our using lighting with mercury in it...) feeling like we're choosing between two devils. Anyway, I would like to learn more and would appreciate any further info you can offer or point me to.

gailrolfe,

When I said I found a Medallion dealer off the internet I meant I went on the Medallion web site and found the name of a local shop that sells them. Then I went there, looked at their products and talked to a cabinet salesman. They actually carried about 20 different lines of cabinetry so I was able to look at products other than just Medallion. Once my architect and GC have looked over the order I will purchase from them.

I know many people on this forum buy their cabinets online and save money. IMO, the only successful way to do that is if you have a complete and very well-thought-out plan with impeccable measurements, if you are very familiar with the line of cabinets and all of its products, and if you have actually seen the cabinets in person. Every kitchen designer/cabinet salesperson I have spoken to has given me information or ideas that have been helpful to me, so I think it is a good idea to talk to several, even if you end up purchasing online.

If you go to the link below (and let's hope you can--it is the first time I've ever attempted to link here!), you will see a partial list of cabinetry from less expensive to more. Not all lines have inset doors (and inset doors are generally more expensive), so you could start by looking up the various lines on the internet to see if they have inset and to look at their door styles. Then you should be able to get the names of some local dealers. Call them, go see the cabinets and ask a lot of questions. Most places really WANT to sell you cabinets, especially in these economic times.

As for custom, it is best if you can get recommendations. You may even be able to get some here. If you can't get recommendations you will have to look in the phone book and go in blind, but you should always get references and see actual examples of a custom shop's work in any case. The custom bid we got was in line with our other bids, but many people here have been able to pay less for custom.

Good luck!

Here is a link that might be useful: Relative cabinet prices

Hi, I agree with tshad about hiring a cabinet builder. We redid our kitchen about 8 years ago. DS is a carpenter and told us to collect pics of things we liked in a notebook. That really helped.

I went to HD for a quote and they put the measurments into their computer and gave me one. There were some things we wanted, such as a built in table at the end of a row of cabinets, some cupboard doors that opened front and back, and a few other things. Each time I mentioned one of those things, they said that I would have to find a cabinet maker to build those items because they couldn't do it. The best design HD could give us was almost exactly what we were tearing out. I called Gilbert and Sons because they were close to my house in Walnut. They came out and measured (no charge), built everything we wanted, were on time, and the price was about 10% higher than HD, including all the things that HD couldn't deliver. Gilbert is still in business as far as I know on Pomona Blvd. in Pomona. (I have no relation to Gilbert or his company, other than him building my cabinets.) Cabinet makers build cabinets to fit the space instead of bringing in pre-built cabinets that they have to make work in the space. Linda

sally123 and lindasewandsew, I just now noticed that my response to both of you did not post....I'm not sure why though it might have been related to the fact that I posted late at night when I should have been asleep! Thank you both for your responses. Sally, your email made me realized that after the first couple of times when I got Home Expo back as the only nearby dealer, I sort of forgot about checking the dealer lists and so I went back on and checked them for some of the lines I've seen online that I know have the type of inset cabs I want and I came up with a nice little list of places to check out in my area so thank you for shaking me up. And Linda, I added Gilbert to my list as I am so delighted to have received a referral from GW! I will tell him you referred me just in case he knows who lindasewandsew is :-) I also met with my KD/consultant today and talked to her about quality of finishes. In case anyone else is interested, her opinion is that the environmental regs in CA have a bigger impact on the quality of painted cabs as compared to stained so since I'm going with stained, I think I'll definitely check out some local cabinetmakers. Tshad, does that advice make any sense?

I would agree about the painted vs. stained finishes in CA. I have both and feel that the stained cabinets are more durable- less likely to chip and get dinged up- than the painted cabinets.

Gailrolfe...I still feel that we should all just be cool with the changes that are helping out our environment and indoor air quality. The guys that I hang out with that are in the cabinet building and finishing business are using good quality products that are better for the environment and healthier for us and achieving great results. They really care about what they are doing and use the best stuff out there. I just don't think the big boxes really care as much as these smaller, independent guys do. I don't know where you are in So Cal but please go talk to some local craftsmen near you. You are helping your community as well.

Thanks Cal dreamer...we've gone back and forth on painted vs stained but are currently leaning toward stained and this may be just the little detail that helps put us firmly there...we currently have some very inexpensive painted ones that came with the house and I would guess did not have the super-duper finishing either and they look pretty bad after 10 years...I can believe that we might be harder on cabinets than many people but if we can reduce it, it would be nice! Tshad, I hear you...and I like to support the local guys whenever I can but I do like to be an educated consumer and not do it blindly so just trying to make sure I understand the cost/benefits of these differences.