We put KraftMaid in our first home 7 years ago. Overall, I suppose they weren't awful - but I wouldn't pay that much money for them again. I learned a few lessons:

1. cabinets over 30 inches really need additional center support. we had 3 36 inch cabinets 2 uppers & 1 lower. The uppers have sagging shelves, the lower cabinet has a single long drawer that had the bottom fall out despite having braces. the lower cabinet also has 2 roll out trays - the rail of one ripped out of the side of the cabinet - which leads me to #2.

2. get the plywood sides! Furniture board is not strong enough to hold heavy pots & pans especially over a wide span.

3. Decorative trim that is just glued on is not worth it. First it's hard to keep clean, second it eventually peeled up.

Yes, I contacted the company on all of these issues. I will say that they were good about sending replacement parts (except for the doors with the peeling trim). However in the case of #2 the sides of the box were too blown out just to reinstall the rail. I had to reconstruct the hole with a wood repair kit....

I put Shrock maple cabinetry in my family room about 8 years ago and they look good as new and even survived a few floods we had. My carpenter did put extra supports in the cabinet that holds our (old and heavy) large screen tv. I have heard since that schrock also sells under other names, I think KitchenKraft was a brand, but I am not sure. Good Luck

I have the Schrock literature still, and if you go with them, look carefully at their construction. I would go with at least Upgrade 1 on the box construction, if not Upgrade 2.

I didn't like the partial overlays which may be presented to you as a cheaper option. Also, some of their door colors and panel shapes are really dated styles. Get some magazines or new books from Home Depot or look at the finished kitchen blogs here.

As to the sales guy, I wasn't happy with him at all. He wanted me to pick a wood species and door style first and then he'd calculate out the price of my whole kitchen. I wanted him to give me price brackets of the different door styles and wood species, sort of like the granite yards do. I wanted to pick a lower-bracket and a medium bracket from among the choices and then have him price those. He finally relented and bracketed a few in on the maple page.

I have Bertch Legacy (and one Bertch Custom piece) and love it. Their website isn't very good but they use Blum hardware, full extension drawers and rollouts, and soft close drawers in their construction. We used QS oak and it is beautiful. We are very happy with the finish quality.

We have a small, weird layout and we were able to get all the sizes and variations we needed with the Legacy semi-custom line. My KD designed a custom hutch for us so that is our Custom cabinet - I think she always puts a custom piece in her designs to make it more difficult to shop the design around but we could have probably made it work using the Legacy line but never pursued that option. The lines are interchangable so you don't have to commit to all Custom.

We cook a lot, including my teenage sons, and the cabs are holding up very well. Maybe I'm just biased because they are made an hour from my house but I can't say enough good things about Bertch.

Full disclosure ... I am, as my name implies, pro-Showplace.

Here is what I think you will find (please let the forum know what you find as you research):
- Bertch will likely be the most expensive regardless of the detail choice you make
- KraftMaid will likely be the least expensive out of the box. But if you upgrade the cabient to level the playing field with what Showplace offers, it will be more expensive. You will also be more limited in the style and specie combinations available, which may or may not be an issue.
- Schrock has a brand called Kemper which may be the least expensive of the group, but again more limited and can actually become more expensive if you upgrade to plywood etc. similar to the KraftMaid scenario.
- I do think Showplace offers the best price/quality/styling/customization value of the group. But that really depends on the type of cabinet that is important to you. Since you mention quality trumps price, I suspect your research will bear this out.

Here is a link to Showplace dealers talking about the brand in their own words, which I suspect you have already seen. In it, dealers speak from the heart about the Showplace brand (none of them were compensated in any way and they all sell multiple brands).

Also, if you have interest I can post a link to a document that can be used to help your rational side work through most of the choices that can affect your brand decision.

Please post your findings.

Here is a link that might be useful: Showplace Dealers in Their Own Words

ShowplaceInsider- I am not familiar with the showplace brand, but I checked it out based on your above comments. I was discouraged by the website's warning statement:

"WARNING: Machining, sanding, sawing, or drilling this product may produce wood dust, a substance known to the State of California to cause cancer. Avoid inhaling wood dust or use a dust mask or other safeguards for personal protection."

I understand CA has strict laws, but why is cutting the showplace wood a concern / cancer risk?

Thank you so much for your answers!

I have told the designer that the cabinets have to be plywood. Shelves can be MDF... although I do have load-bearing concerns on double cabs, as you have suggested, thatgirl. I have some pretty heavy stoneware! :-) The KD and my contractor said that will not be an issue- hardwood shelves can be put in & not affect the structural integrity of a well-made plywood cab. I hope.

Colorfast- I found that in my area, designers do NOT want to price individual pieces. Even HD/Lowe's do the 'reeling in' process, and that 'sales' are popped in if done by certain dates, then another whatever percent off if something else is bought or upgraded. Very frustrating. I am quite capable of understanding a pricing spreadsheet, but that seems to be something that no one wants the customer to see... separate costs.

Also- I do like the Schrock. I did not know there was an upgrade on box construction. Hm.

Dilly- thanks for the positive note on Schrock.

Skyedog- you're absolutely right- the Bertch site does not invite potential customers to go exploring. Argh. Our kitchen is also very small- 11 x 11 w/ doors and heating elements that are immoveable. Anything custom is out of our budget. In fact, our budget is on the low end of the middle price range. Bertch might be beautiful- I'll check the prices when go to the showroom.

Showplace- I would enjoy seeing the link you have offered! I did watch the Showplace videos today- all of them. As I researched each line in terms of consumer complaints, unfortunately, Showplace showed up here on GardenWeb. There were a few complaints here and there regarding the quality. I was a bit surprised, as an employee-owned company American company is very appealing. I believe one complaints was 2+ yrs. ago, so perhaps it was either that 1 in a million projects where things just go wrong, or a quality control issue that has since been solved.

I invite others to share their experiences... or more from those whom have responded.

I wanted a white [painted] cabinet, but am now leaning toward a very light maple. After spending my whole life with ugly wood cabinets, paint seemed rather nice. LOL [I do mean UGLY.]

This is all so very stressful. It would be better if our budget was a bit more elastic- perhaps we may have to be.

dilly - Thanks for sharing your concern about the warning. You are correct, it is a warning that the State of California has required of any manufacturer who sells cabinets made of wood in their state.

It has absolutely nothing to do with the Showplace brand itself ... Showplace cabinets are made of wood, so if you cut it or drill it you "might" create saw dust ... just like if you cut or drill any other wood - even a tree. Nothing has changed about the natural characteristics of wood from what it has been throughout history.

Everyone who sells wood cabinets to consumers in California is legally bound to provide this warning. If you look on many other cabinet manufacturer sites, you will find it somewhere - but you may have to hunt to find it.

The warning is in answer to "California Proposition 65" and on December 18, 2009 the state determined that "wood dust" should be added to the list of items that consumers must be warned about.

The state of California has not allocated sufficient funds to enforce this law, so it contains provisions which allow bounty hunters to bring suit and if successful, to retain some of the award. This is the part of the law that is most scary; any individual can say "you're not doing enough to tell people about saw dust" and bring suit for personal gain.

The law also is loosely written, so it is unclear how prominently the warning should be displayed. With bounty hunters in play, some manufacturers like Showplace will take the high-road of making sure the warning is obvious in materials consumers will see; at the same time, there is a certain element of trust that most consumers will understand the absurdity of the law.

Here is a link that might be useful: Information Relating to California Prop. 65 - Wood Dust

twizzlebug - below is a link to a document created by Showplace (but can be used to compare any other brands even if Showplace isn't one of them) that can aid in comparing the nuts and bolts of how brands may differ.

It was prepared to help consumers who can easily fall in love (the heart) with the look of a cabinet, but who also want to feel comfortable that their rational side (the head) is making the right decision.

It is admittedly a sort of high-level "Cliff Notes" document because there are so many things that might otherwise influence the decision ... like do you have special circumstances where standard size cabinet don't fit as well as cabinets that can be modified to fit.

I think if you work with a reputable dealer you will be able to find a brand that you will be happy with. The designer you work with should understand the cabinet brand differences that relate to making them fit your space and can also work through the elements on this sheet you will want to consider.

Good luck, have fun!

Here is a link that might be useful: Evaluating Cabinetry Brands - A Self-Help Guide

Hi, everyone- I thought I'd post an in-progress follow-up. The Schrock and Showplace cabinets priced out almost equally. Sometimes I have to go w/ my intuition, and so we've decided on painted Schrock all-wood.

For the counter we will use Cambria. I have no idea if that is considered a 'quartzite' or quartz. It comes with a 15 yr. warranty. I just could not find a granite that I loved, and as this is not a high-end kitchen.. the Cambria seemed a good choice. Any further info. on Cambria would be gratefully received!

Floors will be pre-finished hard wood. Only because we have allergy problems in the house and using an oil-based shellac isn't an option for the people in the house.

Yikes- I'm so NERVOUS!

Hey, I think your countertops are quartz, or manufactured quartz. Quartzite is a natural stone, sold right along with granite.

Glad you came to some decisions.

I'm nervous too....and I don't have a kitchen right now so we're past the point of no return:)

I don't know how much of a price difference there is between the Schuller cabs at Lowes and the Kraftmaid ones. I know that Schuller is more expensive, but I didn't price them both out. We got Schuller for our bathroom vanities and I think they are very well made. We just installed them, so we haven't seen how they wear, but the box construction is very good, and the drawers are very nice!

Quartz is pretty expensive (Cambria). I think if it were me, I would probably put the extra money is really well constructed cabinets and do Formica, especially if it is not a high end kitchen. I think when I priced out the Cambria it was more expensive than a lot of the level A and B granites.

This is directed to twizzlebug. You commented that "The Schrock and Showplace cabinets priced out almost equally." I'm surprised at this since I thought that Schrock were less expensive the Showplace. Can I ask, what the price was? I've been looking at a lot of cabinet brands and didn't price out Showplace because I thought that they were much more expensive. Thanks

Colorfast- sorry... I meant to get back to you to ask about your kitchen mess! Anyway- yes, manufactured quartz. Chopped-up quartz bonded together by the polymer resin.

Senator13- I looked the Schrock and Showplace cabinets over pretty thoroughly. Checked the load weights, warranties, etc. Brought samples home. They really did appear to be very similar & well-constructed... it was just by intuition that I settled on the Schrock. I also liked the Kraftmaid... but not quite as well. I sure as heck hope I'm not wrong!!

Also- the kitchen is not *that* low-end. LOL It's just not 'high-end'. We're under 40' for counter space, so the Cambria is affordable. I've lived my entire life with the most awful laminate counters and floors, and decided that in my old age, I was going to have a nice kitchen. Small, but nice.

Aries61.. about pricing out cabinets.... It feels like buying a car. The closest I could get to an individual cabinet price from 4 places was that 'cabinets run approx. $330/linear foot'. I will not have the price break-out until I put down a deposit and order them. Does that make me crazy? Yes. Is that the way it was at Lowe's, HD and 2 kitchen designers? Yes. All the prices seemed to fall into the same ballpark.

Having said that... gulp... it came out to $8500 [inc. tax] for almost 28 ft. [linear] of cabinets. [That means top and bottom cabs.] [One wall is 11' inc. corner, around to another 8', another wall of 8'.]

Oh- the Cambria + sink will be about $2700.

Oh, no- I better stop. Now I'm so anxious that having said that, people will crawl out of the woodwork to shake their heads and tell me I'm completely crazy & have over-spent. I'm already shaking all the time!

twizzle - (((hugs))) - breath deeply now: you'll need the practice ;)

I agree this is stressful. And without trying to sound too cynical, let me just suggest that there's good reason for you to be nervous: something will probably go wrong. It seems to be the name of this game. You might possibly get more mileage by giving yourself a break in that you worked as hard as you could to come up with a set of good choices; acknowledge that. And move on to working on accepting that there will likely be some disappointments and mistakes and problems and changes. You may be nervous because you may or may not have made the perfect choices. What I'm trying to say is - you probably didn't. But you've worked hard and the result is the best you could reasonably do; give yourself a break if/when things wind up being not perfect. Save your energy for the scrambling you'll need to do when the problems start peeping out.

Even if your choices aren't perfect - it'll likely look great, good-enough, a big, exciting improvement over before. What more can anyone really ask for?

Twizzlebug: Thanks for the information. I priced Schrock out a few months ago and they priced out at the lower end that is why I asked. I've gotten estimates between $4800 to $12,500. I've have about 20 linear ft of cabinets.

I agree it's frustrating that most won't give you a cabinet price breakdown and don't listen to what you want. I give all of them the same information, which includes a current layout and changes that I'm looking to make. When they give me a price and layout usually something that I want changed is still in the plan.

The more I look and get prices, the more frustrating and confused I get. When I did the kitchen 19 years ago I didn't have this much trouble at all.

Re-read aliris19's comment about 30 times. Maybe it should go in the "Read This If You're New" post.

LOL!! Aliris19 and Marcolo- you've just cracked me up. The contractor called this a.m. for our estimate mtg. tomorrow night. I kept asking him for NUMBERS, not meetings! Told him I had reached the shaking stage & he kept saying it will all be fine. So tomorrow night I'll cry, smack him across the head when husband isn't looking, then he & husband will have a beer and solve it all. By that time my tranquilizer will have kicked in.

Yes- it is the 'what ELSE can go wrong?' part that bothers me. If it is an ins. issue, I know the ins. co. will be good. If it is anything else, then I will hand it to my-dear-friend-and-contractor and tell him to fix it. I'm going to renew my migraine prescription tonight.

On a serious note...the good news is that our house was built of sturdy wood by a builder in 1915. The bad news is that everything done was either in 1915 or upgraded sometime in the late 50s.

Yes, I am printing out your response, Aliris19!

Aries61- it is a true pain. I mentioned this to one showroom and they said 'well, you would have to know how to measure and read 100s of spreadsheet pages'. I was infuriated, and suggested that if I could it online with other companies, why do THEY not publish the same info.? Don't understand why the saleswoman became so irritated. I can only figure that they design the kitchen and build in their profit margin, knowing that the installers will also need to be paid.

If I get that mad, I'll have the stove wiring re-done [it got wet], walls put in, install a utility sink and buy a workbench. For cabs I can always buy a Rubbermaid storage pantry. Heh heh heh.