Breezy, I have 24" wide upper cabs, with doors that are probably 20" (inset doors). There's nothing about them that bothers me.

The two cabinets flanking my hood have doors that are about 21.5" wide. I like the nice wide cabinets as it's easy to store things of all different sizes, and I'd rather open one door than two if I have to put away something big. (Plus I have room for wide spice racks on the doors.)

Both options sound like they'd be fine so I suppose it depends on what you're storing there and how you think the doors look with the rest of your uppers. Can you do mockup elevations with both options?

Don't have a closeup but here are the wide cabinet doors next to the hood. There's not really a line on the right side one... don't know why the pic looks like that:
{{!gwi}}

Ruefully: I sure hope I don't wind up regretting not having those single doors afterall!

But that's stupid to be worrying about now.... [sigh]. But fwiw my KD did say she thought there was nothing wrong with doors even up to 24".

Good points about the functional narrowness of the cabinets you're considering. One thing additional width gives is room to rearrange should you have to burrow down into the back. If the cabinet is too narrow you'll lose that shuffling room.

Aliris--Thanks for the pics. Cute baby cab. Looking good!

Briana--just make sure to include DH again in your pics. ;)

Plllog--It seems like when the door gets too big you have to step back to get out of the way when you open or your face can get hit. Or maybe that's just me. I thought wide doors were frowned on.

Lascatx--LOL! I was JUST thinking about how I didn't think I'd ever seen your finished kitchen. In fact, I don't think I've seen those gorgeous blue cabs either. So when's the big reveal? ;) Good point about how inaccessible the 12" open shelving might be in the corner. Space-wise I knew it'd be too small really.

Melissa--Good to know. Thanks.

Chicagoans--I've got a two drawings from my cab maker. See below.

18" open shelving and 18" closed with single door:

15" open shelves and 21" closed with narrow double doors:

What I don't have is a drawing of 15" open shelves and 21" closed with single door.

Thoughs?

Breezy - I think the second picture with double narrow drawers looks better. I think the first, with larger shelves and compromise on large single-door upper will be more functional. I think I'd prefer #1 with larger shelves and compromise big cab to #2 modified with single door; I think that would be worst of both worlds, smaller shelves and larger door. I forgot to mention that what I like aesthetically about #2 with narrow double doors is that it follows the line of the narrow doors down below. That's why I ended up accepting the involuntary change to my narrow upper doors; the lines seemed to be a little more harmonious, maybe?

What would you think about #1 modified by having a single upper cabinet the same width as the lower cab door and therefore considerably larger open shelves? What are you going to be using the cabinetry for? Have you a plethora of books (I sure do)? - but can they only go here? (Definitely not for me). Do you need those uppers for, say, glassware or whatever?

You didn't ask for this, but what about a pullout (for spices, oils) in the cabinet location that could even be lowered a bit for utility and then the rest open shelves? The door front would match the width of the lower's. As it's a corner, you might possibly not be using the space in the corner all that much on the counter anyway -- what about lowering it? Hey, it's not my money (!), how about lowering the windows too? (probably fixed already, I know). Or if you're into symmetry, how about lowering the cabinets to be an appliance garage that would by its bulk match the stove bank on the other side?

I think that's what's bugging me a little; there's such strong symmetry in the center but then it falls away. I'm no symmetry-purist, and I'm sure it would be fine IRL. But if the notion appeals to you functionally, it might solve some problems aesthetically?

BTW, I do think that's right about the giant cabinet doors, you have to do some back-pulling to get out of their way. Though this will depend on their relative location to other stuff in the kitchen - that is where you would subconsciously be placing yourself anyway in order to get out of the way. If there's no good space for you to move into I'm sure it would become more of a problem than if there were. You may well have enough open space that you'd dodge with impunity.

Aliris--I just asked my cab maker to do a drawing with 15" open shelves like in #2 but with a single 21" door. I think that's probably the best. I need to store some baking supplies in those uppers and a mish-mash of other smaller stuff that won't look good displayed on open shelves. I started off with only cabinets then decided I do want some display space for a pretty or two and a few of my most-used cookbooks. The rest of the books will be stored elsewhere as I only have about 60 of them. There is a balance here somewhere between display and needing to hide things.

I've considered an appliance garage there for months. Unfortnately, I just don't think it's going to work. My Gaggia espresso machine will live on the counter there. And now that I've moved my baking zone there, my white commercial KA mixer will need to be on the counter also. It's too deep to fit front to back in an appliance garage. Plus, when I use it, I'd have to pull it out of the corner and garage and over to usable space. I just don't think that's workable. Darn it.

I probably missed this, but why not shelves in the whole area? It would give you more display and easier to reach dishes without the doors. If that's not going to work, then I like the second option, with the two doors, similar to the two doors, over the wall oven. I think it looks better with the base cabinet door, too :)

Aliris- Nice looking kitchen! It really is coming together, quickly.

Lascatx- Love the blue!

Chicagoans- Very elegant, I like the stools and pendants very much.

Hi Lavender.

No open shelves for the whole area as I have baking supplies, coffee making related supplies, and a mish mash of small stuff that needs to go up there. I don't want my baking powder and toothpicks boxes on display. ;) Nor would I want to always fuss with lining them up right and making the labels all face the same way, etc if they were on display.

I see that the smaller doors in #2 look good with the side of that lazy susan corner. The fact that I'd have to open two narrow doors everytime I wanted something in the uppers is swaying me towards a larger, single door instead. Hey, just realized that's why I don't like french door friges either. I end up having to open both doors 97% of the time.

Breezygirl, we are going with smaller doors. We'll have a floor to ceiling pantry that's 4 ft wide, divided into 2 sections. I was a little worried about the smaller doors, but since it's in a walkway, I decided I'd rather have them smaller.

I like #2 set-up because I like the way the two doors line up with the bottom one. With being two doors they are the same set-up as over the oven as well.
I would have to see the 15" shelves with the single 21" door because I'm not sure that it will line up as nicely with the below cabinets or be as symmetrically pleasing to look at in combination with the double-doors configuration over the oven.
You have everything nicely symmetrical and a single wide door may throw it off. IHMO.
You need to look at the whole wall - not just that corner.

I think single doors look fine up to 24." My last kitchen had one 23.5" upper with a full overlay single door, and it did not look too wide. That was one of my best cabinets - it was so easy to arrange stacks of plates and bowls with that width to work with. I don't think having a wide door open makes for a difficult work space, becuase you open the door, get what you want, then close the door.

Clueless--Being in a walkway does make a difference. Thanks for your input.

Blfenton--The double doors do add balance to the right with the oven cab and below with the lazy susan door. For form, double doors look best. For function? I'm thinking a single door would be better. I'll wait to see the drawing of the 21" single door.

Kaysd--Thanks for another vote for the usefullness of a wider, single door.

I started off asking about how narrow a door is too narrow, and this turned into a discussion about how great wide doors are!

Here's the 15" open shelving and the 21" of remaining space as a single door. I know what my gut reaction is.

#3

Well there ya go ... I agree it feels good. The large door and large shelf space balance out the large oven bank on the left and large windows. It works. More importantly, you like it.

Funny, I didn't think it would be terribly necessary to carry through with the exercise of changing the sketch, but it did matter!

Good work Breezy!

It's cleaner and the balance is good. It was important to see this rendering of the idea to see if it would work. I think it does.

#3 looks good to me. It is a nice balance of hidden storage and display space.

Breezy- i like that last option the best too. do you have an opinion on my bs decision? please...

only the base cabs were installed today, so I will post that pic tomorrow (with DH), just kidding.

I have two 21 inch cabinets with 20.5 inch doors flanking the hood over the range. They are cherry shaker with glass inserts. I use them for the dishes, bowls, etc. I wanted glass for display and if I had gone with two narrow doors instead the glass would have looked like a rifle slot. Anyway, I like the way they look. I do have a 12 inch upper next to one of them with a solid 11.5 door which also looks nice.

I think you can go anyway you want and should base it on what you will be storing in those areas.

I have to be quick and blunt :-), because I'm exhausted and hurried after a day out, but want to answer your request for help...

I disagree with most here and agree with the opinion that the smaller doors go better with the base underneath. I think it would be top-heavy with that door wider than the base door and the top drawers... and not as pleasing a balance on the upper to do a 21 wide with the 15 shelves. 2 doors and the shelves have a visual rhythm and balance that splitting it 21:15 doesn't for me.

I think the wider doors shown above work because they're in sets and that size of door is consistent throughout those rooms.

It's perfectly functional either way, since the cabinet interior is the same either way...But just up to your personal preference for the look.

I have some wider doors in my kitchen and really don't like the width to height proportions as much as I do with narrower, so my opinion is definitely based on my personal leaning.

I have two 21 inch cabinets with 20.5 inch doors flanking the hood over the range. They are cherry shaker with glass inserts. I use them for the dishes, bowls, etc. I wanted glass for display and if I had gone with two narrow doors instead the glass would have looked like a rifle slot. Anyway, I like the way they look. I do have a 12 inch upper next to one of them with a solid 11.5 door which also looks nice.

I think you can go anyway you want and should base it on what you will be storing in those areas.

While I understand rhome's point, this is one time I think I disagree -- at least in the drawing stage (gasp! ;-) ). I think there are too many vertical lines when you have the two windows and so close to the windows and hood. It's a visual clutter factor that will probably not be as strong in execution as it is in black and white line drawings, but the two doors feel cramped and forced to me. I think the fact that the doors are narrower than the shelves makes them seem even more squished in. But that may be something that just strikes a nerve with me. I'd sleep on it and look at them again -- as many times as needed to develop a consensus in your own mind.

I'm with rhome, if yo have a lot of wider doors they look fine but without that context they look clunky (#3 looks totally awkward to me and again, to me, is the least aesthetically pleasing). I am all about the practical in the kitchen but I'm not really getting the functional difference between one or two doors? In the realm of inconveniences that one really doesn't register for me.

It wasn't my favorite from the start, but I wonder if the 18/18 most closely balances the other doors above the ovens. That's all you have other than the windows and hood. Dividing the right space in 2 rather than three seems to make more difference to me than whether it is 15/21 or 18/18. I see the flip of caryscott -- without other doors to balance, the narrow doubles look squished in.

You said a hutch wasn't working -- not sure why not, but that might help give visual balance tot he ovens on the far side. Maybe even bringing the shelves down to the counter -- isn't that similar to what Rhome has in her corner?

are those all utensil drawers flanking the range-the super width would concern me. when cooking and reaching for a tool, one hand may be busy...so can one hand open those really wide lower drawers? they look 40 in or more..or maybe they are for a different purpose....

My shelves are inset into a 24" x 24" framed-in corner...I don't think she wants to lose that much counter space. She has an espresso maker and mixer that need to live there.

If it's just divided in 2 without a door on one side, will it look like a mistake? But I guess I'm just often more comfortable with thirds in design and proportion...as I already proved in the discussion about the upper on your dining room wall, Breezy.

I'm with lascatx to try to rethink the hutch. I know you mentioned having done so and the utility just wasn't there for your big appliances. But I think a glassed-in book shelf-part would look so nice, and I think there are things you can do to make the appliance garage work -- oh I know; you mentioned needing the espresso-maker to sit on the counter -- can you build it a little "house"? I don't know from espresso makers (but there was a Miele automatic one at the fancy showroom I went to that made some right-fine coffee and the very very very dream-worthy best I've had was at a friend's house celebratory to finding a job (at last): that thing cost close to 2 grand. Very expensive though very good coffee!).

Anyway, anyone out there with an appliance garage who can weigh in as to how one might work for Breezy? I don't think I've ever even seen one except on a computer screen so it's not as if I know! There are terribly groovy built-in devices that make let your mixer and the like sit on a shelf that swings up -- or down even from uppers...

Also, you could build the hutch/garage such that it angled on the corner if that would help functionally; dunno.

Sorry if tossing in this additional fillip is just not-helpful. At the end of the day I will completely agree that function trumps form, so stick to your guns if it has to be. I don't think any of the above is terrible, just for the record.

Breezy,
I'm in a rush & haven't taken time to fully read through the entire thread so I apologize if I'm repeating advice already given.

I had a similar situation that left narrow spaces that would have been difficult to use as conventional uppers. My solution was (2) 8" pullouts (mine were custom & could be made to any size - they're basically drawers turned on their sides). One is for spices & the other for small coffee/tea acessories. They've been in place for 8 years & I haven't regretted it yet!

They are the very narrow panels on either side of the double cabs

What is the grey area beneath the counter on the far right? For me, all three versions are a toss-up. I go back and forth thinking one is better than the other but I don't think any of the three choices are clear losers. As others have stated, all three seem like an aesthetic compromise which is fine except that this is your feature wall IIRC. My first thought, which you since excused due to storage needs, was a hutch type cabinet that would balance the bulk of the oven stack on the left size. After reading about your counter space needs there, I moved on (would a breakfront type piece provide you with espresso and mixer storage?) from that and to something farther out there--how about replacing the cabinet/shelf combo with another window--mulling a new window together with the existing to create a bank of windows to the right of the range? You would lose upper storage but it sounds like they are things that could go elsewhere. The open shelves are for displaying more than for storage and for me, a window trumps cookbooks or pottery when it comes to enjoyable things to look at.

You guys are all over the place! ;)

Aliris, Blfenton, Kaysd, Briana, Caryscott, Lascatx, Rhome--Thanks for your votes.

Trailgirl--Thanks for your kitchen info. Nice to know the tiny doors are OK for you.

Herb--the lower drawers flanking the rangetop are 39". I've been round and round with the pros and cons of larger vs. splitting them in two. I decided to keep them as drawn. Thanks for picking up on that issue.

Antiquesilver--Your little pulouts are a genius use of space. Very cute kitchen too. I'm not sure I've seen it before.

Wolfgang--I do need the storage there in the uppers. The windows were put in months ago so I'd like to stick with what I have. There would be a lovely, leafy view from an additional window there, but I think I need to stay on my current path. Thanks!

Lascatz and Aliris--About the hutch/appliance garage:

The espresso machine

and commercial white KA mixer (11" across and 15" deep) need to live under the uppers. I can't figure out a way to store them there and still have them functional for daily ease of use with an appliance garage/hutch cab. The machine doesn't pull out easily so it needs to be used in place for the most part. I can't use it easily if I have to pull it around the mixer. Storing the mixer there at all causes a problem in that I'll have to pull it out and around the espresso machine to use it. The espresso machine will still be in the way of baking too.

I love the IDEA of that type of cab there for hiding them and for balancing the wall across from the ovens, but I just can't make it work practically. I'm very open to listening if you've got a way to do it.

I realized that one of the things throwing my renderings off is that the windows aren't as tall as they are IRL. I photoshopped them taller. Here they are in order. Does this make a difference?

#1

#2

#3

#3 looks the worst to me.

#3 would be my last choice. #1 is OK, but #2 looks more design-intentional. Not just "This is how things landed so we went with it, even though it meant stopping at 1/2 a cabinet."

The thing I could like about #1 is the wider open shelves...But might want to go a little wider with the shelves and a little narrower with the cabinet, for proportion's sake, but then that cabinet gets less functional inside. And I'm guessing you want more closed storage than open? But I'm not sure.

For me, which is something I hadn't noticed before...The 2 longer narrower doors are a very nice balance with the slightly wider and shorter set over the oven. The one larger door looks a little bit odd in comparison to the ones over the oven when I look at the whole scene....again, worse in #3 than #1.

What's the length of this wall again? When I look at this wall I only notice, what to me is the business of the cabinetry around the range. So just wondering how stretched out this is.

I definitely like #2 the best and always have. I like the continued lines it shares with the bottom cabinets (as others have already mentioned). I also think it looks very balanced left side vs. right side. Personally I think you just won't have that much stuff you will want to display - sure some, but it has to be kept nice and pretty so you don't want to devote too much space to that and lose valuable true storage space - IMHO.

When I see them all in consective order like that, I like #2 the best. It seems to have good balance between the doors and shelves. I think thats the solution. Maybe I missed it, but what are you planning to store there? cookbooks? or actual items?

They all look better with the windows longer -- the narrower doors don't look squished. There is more balance.

I don't know what the wall that connects to that corner looks like, so it's hard to suggest particulars about the corner. I'm guessing your sink is on that wall, but I don't know how much room you have where. I have an espresso machine (different one) and KA pro mixer, so I do know what those are like. I don't see either needing or being better in a garage.

Wouldn't your espresso maker go on the side closer to your sink? Even out from under the cabinet and the corner recess so that you can more easily reach it, fill it, etc.? The mixer would fit under the upper with the door or pushed back into the corner deeper if that isn't too much reach and pull for you.

If you have appliances there, you probably have enough weight there to balance the ovens on the other side -- cabinets or not.

Oh, that's *terrific*! I wanted to ask you if you'd consider making the windows larger... did I even do that? I was worried about suggesting too much $$$, but it's already done. Talk about clairvoyant! So fast too... ;)

As for which to go with now? I have no idea any more! Literally, I think there's a good argument to be made for each one of em. Lining them up like that for me just makes the decision even harder. Good luck, Breezy -- this is one for the professionals (of which I am not) ;)

What's dh say? Sometimes if it's a tossup to you, you can earn 'free points' by "giving away" the decision to another. Less cynically, if it doesn't matter all that much to you, why not check with another for whom it might matter and let them prevail?

The windows were bugging me too, but I didn't say anything -- living in a brick house, you kind of get used to taking the windows as they are. Sizes, at least.

Another vote for the visual of #2, with #3 as my next choice for ease of use.

Rhome--You hit the issue on the head. #1 is good because of additional open shelving space. #2 is good because the two doors balance the two doors over the oven on the end.

Blfenton--From left to right, pantry to corner, measures approximately 15' 3".

Newsouthernbelle--That's another good reason to like #2.

Briana--I plan to store um....something in there. Not sure yet. A few of my most-used cookbooks. My big tin with tea bags. Whatever looks good and can be useful in a spot like that. It also depends on how wide the shelves are. With wider, I might store coffee mugs for the espresso machine below. I thought I'd wait to see how it feels. Maybe put some of my smaller odds and ends from the closed uppers there in interesting containers if need be.

Lascatx--The windows drawn as they actualy are IRL makes a sure difference.

Here's a rendering from Rhome to give you an idea of the rest of the kitchen. Some things on the left have changed, but you can see the area on the right:

And here's a view from the DR. I don't want too much on the counters around the cleanup sink.

I appreciate your opinion on a possible appliance garage for the espresso machine and stand mixer. Just doesn't seem workable.

Aliris--The windows are installed and are bigger than the cab maker's black and white. He was more concerned with cab appearance. Maybe I should pull DH in on this one. Thanks!

Jessica--Thanks for your opinion.

Breezy- haha. too funny. Its definitely better to wait and see what you want to store there than to know you have to store something there. I think it could make a great spot for some accent stuff. Your kitchen is really coming together. So happy for you! I plan on storing my espresso machine and KA on the counter too in each my my two "corners." I think its the only way to keep it functional. Plus, I think we are all a little edgy before that first cup so futzing with the espresso machine would just put me over the edge first thing in the morning!

I have some 9.5" doors in the new kitchen. They are two pairs and I had the choice of doing four doors or two wider doors. The old cabinets had two wide doors.

I had not expect this result, but I really like the narrow doors because they don't stick out so far when open. I remember having to take a step back to open up the wider doors, and with the narrow ones, I can open them without having to move my face out of the way.

Briana--I'm glad it looks like I'm making progress to someone. Did that make sense? Haven't had my coffee yet this a.m. ;)

Macy--I think I remember your posting about those doors. It's what made me realize door width was something to consider. Not having to worry about getting smacked in the face is an advantage.

Ok - I'm back to my original choice which was #2. All of your doors (above the ovens and the to-counter cupboards at the end of your sink run) are all doubles and I like the way it lines up and balances the oven stack.

Having seen them all posted together and with the bigger windows, I am going to change my vote to #2. In general, I prefer wider door to skinny ones, but with the skinny base door right below and the double doors over the ovens, the skinny double doors on the right side seem to provide better balance in your kitchen.

Speaking of coffee mugs... I often wish I'd seen the little shallow shelves that some people tuck under their uppers for that purpose...Or maybe made room to hang mugs. Just something else to think about and confuse the issue, maybe. ;-)

I know that this is a whole 'nother option, and seems to fly in the face of my preference for the double door, but if you want to embrace the open shelves and use them more, which I can see happening because of my own experience, I could seriously consider a 12" door (hinging on the left, knob on the right) and 24" of open shelves from it to corner. (Long sentence) But again, it depends on how much open vs closed storage you want in that corner.

Hi,
I have a pair of 24" inset door cabs flanking my main sink, so that ends up being a 21" interior opening in the face frame, which appears thus:

I'm a little confused. Is Rhome your cabinet maker or where did the renderings come from?

Breezy--I think I might have a solution. Make a single door 21" like the one in number #3 but have the front panel made to look like two doors like in #2. This gives you the space of a single, but the appearance of a pair of doors.

i like #2. as others have said, it looks planned that way with the lowers.

but missstella has a clever idea. :)

Breezy- I know I'm late with my pics. I went out of town this weekend before I got a chance to post them for you. The left of where the range hood goes is 21" wide and the right cabinet next to the fridge surround is 18". Hope that helps! Cabs are 42" tall.
{{!gwi}}
{{!gwi}}