I would say that the hard TKOers among us would settle for nothing less than to design their own! I designed everything myself using this site and it's members. And then I redesigned and tweaked and fiddled and tweaked. Sometimes when I asked my cab maker for something he'd ask me to show him a pic to make sure he knew exactly what I wanted. I've been steadily planning my kitchen for over 18 months now so I knew what I wanted for cab style, color, overlay, etc before looking at cab makers.

Maybe your maker is just trying to make sure you get exactly what you want? But the fact that a pic can't guide a verbal discussion so you could get some input would bother me. Have you tried asking him what he usually does when he wants a decision from you? Like if he wants a pic of face frames, could you show him a couple and ask him what he usually does?

What do you need help with? Layout? Color? Drawers vs cabinets? Can we help you?

Every decision is mine (well, guided by the generous and expert advice given here, of course). Wouldn't want it any other way. Nobody knows exactly how I use my kitchen, except for me.

Why not post a measured sketch of your kitchen and a description of your preliminary ideas for comments?

Plus, of course, study the Read Me thread to get a leg up on kitchen design issues.

It's a fun and intellectually engaging process and the upside is that you will more likely get a kitchen that fits you like it was custom-tailored - because it will be.

You don't need high-level skills in drawing or computer drafting, just graph paper; a dark, fine-pointed pen; and the patience to take careful measurements to plan the initial kitchen layout. Once you know what cabs you want and where, then someone (perhaps your cab guy) will need to make very precise dimensions for fabrication of the cabs. You can cross that bridge later, though.

The long and short of it is that somebody has to design your kitchen, so either you do it or you hire a kitchen designer to do it. (Unless you are simply changing out your cabs and keeping exactly the same layout.) There are excellent, fee-based or commission-based KDs out there, but many cab suppliers/"kitchen designers" are just cabinent salespersons. If you decide to go with a kitchen desinger of any kind, feel free to bring your layout back here for comments. It's almost certain that collectively the KF will be able to suggest further improvements that will save money, increase utility and/or make it prettier.

All for free! Can't beat that.

L

DO IT! I have seen people not specify full overlay and end up with tiny doors in the middle of lots of faceframe.
It's an older style of cabinet making and if your guy has been in business 25 years, it could look 'normal' to him.

Yes, you probably need to go over the plans inch by inch, take your time, look at a lot of photos and read A LOT.
You're spending so much money and 'they' don't often understand exactly what you are envisioning.

If you are on here long enough you will see dozens of threads posted where people are disappointed in the outcome,
and it's about a quarter inch or less somewhere. That probably sounds crazy to you, but it's not.
Usually turns out they didn't exactly specify in writing and then have to argue about making an expensive change.

Take your time. Really.
:)

I designed our layout and planned the cabs. Then I changed it at least 50 times. At the time I placed the order, I was supremely confident and then made one more tweak that had not occurred to me sooner. I used Ikea's 3D planner and could not imagine not using a 3D program. Being able to walk through the kitchen virtually showed me many changes and tweaks that I would not have realized from a paper drawing.
You can use Ikea's planner for free and don't have to buy their cabs. We went with Ikea, but we could have easily taken the plans, printed up, to someone else or showed them on our computer.

I designed our kitchen exactly too as far as placement, measurements of cabinets and aesthetics. But, my cabinet maker was able to work from my pictures and measurements to create his own CAD drawings. It would concern me if he had not been able to- what's he going to do, create precision perfect cabinets from my photoshop?

It seems odd to me that your cabinet maker would need an exact picture of exactly what you want (what if it doesn't exist?) and would need you to specify things like the face frames. It seems like if you give the sizes and dimensions of the cabinets and the basic layout details, he should be able to take it from there. I wanted to get every single last detail of our layout done the way I want it, but I didn't want to have to decide stuff like how much of a filler I need so the refrigerator doesn't it the pantry door or how wide a cabinet frame should be, since those things are out of my depth.

The exact widths of the face frames? That should be his job.

You start with getting measurements of your kitchen, and you definitely want a professional to come out and measure your space. I had it done twice because my own measurements didn't jive with the first guy's measurement. Be there when they measure.

They'll need to determine the placement of windows, doors, ceilings, soffits etc. Then decide where your sink and major appliances are going to be and go from there.

My kitchen designer wanted to kill me! I tweaked my kitchen design a thousand times...even if it was just little things, but I have nobody to blame but me if I hate it.

I made a list of everything I had in my kitchen and then I designated every single drawer/cabinet in my kitchen on the CAD drawing where I wanted it.

My designer had 3D and that definitely helps with the aesthetic part of the process.

3D is a decent overall visual tool, but for understanding clearances and flow, graph or grid paper is more helpful. I strongly recommend using it initially and then moving on to 3D or hand renderings.

How often do you use your kitchen? How do you and your family use it now and how do you plan to use it in the near future?

Only you can answer these and other questions about your kitchen. This means that, at the very least, you need to be heavily involved in the design of the kitchen. Most of us here, though, were so intimately involved that we designed everything from the layout, the types of cabinets (drawer bases, etc.), the exact curve of our overahangs, the placement of our drawer pulls and door knobs, etc.

If function is important to you...then be glad your cabinetmaker is looking for input from you!

As to the cabinets themselves, he at least needs to know the style you want...frameless, framed/inset, framed/partial overlay, or framed/full overlay. He will also need to know the wood species and type of finish you want. When you go to cabinet store, you see samples, so, whether you know it or not, you're making these decisions as well.

The bottom line is, if you want a kitchen that is designed for you and your family, you will need to be intimately involved with as many of the details as possible!

What about the rest of your remodel...countertops, flooring, electrical, plumbing, lighting, etc.? Do you have a General Contractor (GC) to oversee all aspects of your remodel? Or, are you GCing it yourself? Sometimes, a KD will also act as your GC...but if you go this route, be sure you have a real KD and not just a cabinet salesperson...an independent KD is probably your best option for a combination KD/GC.

To start the design process, see the first post and the "Layout Help" topic of the "Read Me" thread for more information. Additionally, observe how you and your family use the kitchen over the next few weeks. Since school is now out for most of us, you'll have to rely on memory for how you use it while it's in session as well (assuming you have school-age children that is!)

What should be done first? Take the "Sweeby Test" (see the "Read Me" thread). Also, start scouring kitchen magazines, etc. and create a file of the kitchens you like...even if it's just one aspect of a particular kitchen (e.g., the counter or backsplash or drawer pulls), add the pictures w/notes about what you like.

For your design, take your observations and start creating a preliminary/first draft layout. Start with workflow and function....usually the rest, like appliance locations, will fall into place based on your workflow. I strongly recommend you post either a "blank slate" of your kitchen or a first stab at your design here for comments. Tap the collective knowledge and experience here to come up with a design...I think you'll find more overall knowledge here than from a single person, even a KD. I know I did...my kitchen looks nothing like the first design my KD came up with (even based on my input). I have the many people here to thank for the wonderfully functional and attractive kitchen I have today!!!!!!

A few tips... Drawer bases for the vast majority of your base cabinets
Think about one versus two (or more) bowls in your sink or sinks
Think about what kind of seating you'd like for both meals and snacks.

There are many more things to think about and questions to ask yourself...so start reading! Start with the "Read Me" thread and its supplementary threads (all linked in the "Read Me" thread)...it will probably take you a while, but in the end, it will be well worth the time and effort!

Good luck!

Here is a link that might be useful: Read Me If You're New To GW Kitchens!

I designed my layout, and it helped that Kraftmaid has dimensions for all the types of cabinets on their website. The cabinet guy fine-tuned it and made sure I didn't do anything stupid.

My cabinet maker had a standard plan for frames and whatnot. Poor guy. That didn't last.

I had an initial cabinetry plan from my architect that I was happy with. The cabinetmaker took that plan and put it into his 3D software so I could see the layout again from his perspective. We fixed a some minor glitches in that step, and refined a few things. (I wanted a specific type of gothic arched glass uppers so I spent the bulk of my time working with him on that feature.) Having two separate people with different perspectives helped me work through all of the iterations and possibilities.

But I could not and would not have wanted to plan it all myself (I am too lazy!) so I definitely would not have wanted to tell him widths of face frames - seems like your guy could present some options with pros and cons to each. I found this forum after my cab plan was done, but I know it would have been helpful. I would echo others that posting your cabinetry plan/layout here would be invaluable.

You are very lucky. You have found a cabinet maker who genuinely cares about his work and keeping his customers happy. I would try to work with him.

never having ordered custom cabs before i was not sure what to expect and what was involved. it ended up being a lot more work than i had imagined but well worth it. i was intimately involved in every detail and had a pile of reference images that we used.

we are in the middle of cab install right now and they look lovely but it was very painful getting to this point. the cabinet maker i used ended up being a total pain in the butt and i had to fire him last week due to a multitude of screw ups, the last one resulting in a complete rebuild of the door and drawer fronts. your cabinet maker can make your project come to a screeching halt if he blows it so choose who you use carefully. you will also be working with them very closely so make sure it is someone you want to deal with. be sure they can accurately track details and has good software for issuing design updates. these were both issues with the cab maker i used.

I planned, measured specific items in my kitchen, measured for required drawer "height", length, etc. I really researched everything to the point where I was thinking about this stuff 1/2 the night. Am I happy? THRILLED and have no regrets. I figured this was probably going to be the last time I was going to do this so I had better get it right. Everytime I walk in my kitchen it makes me happy I put so much effort into it. I did listen to suggestions from my cabinet maker and between the two of us we had no problems. I also looked at some model homes and took note of the details I liked and didn't like. I even measured the height of upper cabs that appealed to me as my ceilings are 10' and I have seen uppers that look ridiculously too small. I had way to much "dead" space in the old kitchen and now I have none.

I did not know about this forum when we started building our custom home last November. One of the first things I had to do was pick out my appliances and design the kitchen and bath cabinetry. Fortunately, our builder provides an interior designer who went with me to the meetings with the kd. Also fortunately, I had been keeping a thick notebook of pictures of kitchens that I loved. Had it not been for the pictures...my kitchen would have probably not been what I wanted. I was able to point out to the kd that I want very thick, stacked moulding at the tops of my cabs, and I wanted the heights staggered (our ceilings are 10', I felt it needed this in the space.)

I designed every square inch, planned out every single cabinet, walked through the space pretending I was cooking/cleaning/prepping... I did that for three years. SOOOOOo glad I did.

I was about as "involved" as a person could be. My cabinets are 100% custom. I did the plans for the cabinets, and I don't mean the layout, I mean the cut sheets used to construct them.

My cabs are a bit unconventional, but very functional and I love using the kitchen. Still not quite done though . . .

I am planning and building my cabinets.
Many good ideas and suggestions from this site.

It is very important that you have the ability to 'tweak' the cabinets.

Absolutely necessary.

Designing the cabs is a job that takes a lot of time, and if you don't have the experience, as most of us didn't have, it is not easy. And your cab maker may not be happy about the tweaks.

I would have an upfront discussion with him right now and explain that as this proceeds, you will need to make changes in the design.

Read all the good advice here, particularly Buehl's. Your layout is the single most important thing and the cabs fit into the layout.

My kitchen is all about the cabinetry, period. It's success lies there.

As someone else said, someone has to plan the kitchen and supply the details. This forum is a great resource if you choose to become that detail oriented person. But you don't have to be that if you don't want to be. You can hire a professional kitchen designer to handle the mind numbing endless details for you. All you would need to do is give an idea of the look you want and your appliance specs. A pro can even help you pick out appliances too if you need the help with that.

The people on this forum do NOT represent your average kitchen remodeler. So don't feel as if there is something wrong with you if you didn't plant your own cherry trees 20 years ago and have hired a boutique lumber harvester and mill to make lumber from the logs and then found a concert violin maker to create the cabinets to heirloom furniture quality. Not that many people take a kitchen that seriously. However, even those that don't even cook want a functional kitchen that won't detract from resale because of some layout flaw or hideous orange and pink flowered wallpaper choice.

Very involved! I designed my basic layout--where I wanted things, basic measurements and such--and took it to a kitchen design/cabinet sales place. The KD there took it, ignored it, and made his own plan that looked nothing like mine. I left frustrated and put off the whole job for about six months. Another KD took my drawings and put it into his software to align with his cabinet lines, but after about six tries, he still wasn't getting it like I wanted (and he went more than 100% over my budget). I took my original sketch, along with the closest drawing from the KD with my scribbles all over it, to a custom cabinet maker. I also had additional drawings I had done in Word for some sections that were otherwise hard to explain. He took all my notes and drawings and drew up his own plans. With a couple of very minor tweaks, I went with almost exactly what his first drawing looked like. It was such a pleasure to finally find someone who was speaking the same language as I was. My kitchen came out exactly as I had pictured it from the beginning. If I had turned it over to either of the first two guys, I'm sure I would have been disappointed.

I planned and over-planned and still it wasn't enough. I walked into the KD's store with 85% done plans and still it was 3 months before she could submit an order. I was fixing her mistakes up until the last moment. It was worse than getting an adviser to sign off on a thesis. But the good news is, there were hardly any mistakes with so much careful, hands-on planning. I think mistakes-galore is par for the course on most kitchen cabinet orders; that's my impression at least. Planning intimately, yourself, upfront, will help lessen the difficulties later. It's a really, really, really big nuisance. I would have loved for someone else to do this. And likely there are many out there who could have. But not who I could afford. I think you have to judge whether you've found one of those gems and gauge your own need to be involved. But IME this is just something you have to do basically, all yourself.